Vergil - Portrait of a Warrior

[Viper]

Sometimes I wonder, if these games and characters aggravate you so much, if fans who find something to love about them aggravate you so much, why still bother with it after all these years? It's not like it's a job you hate, your finances will not suffer if you call it quits, quite the contrary.

I'm not saying you need to leave, I'm just trying to understand humans.

On topic: For me Vergil is more of a confusing than faulty character. I can't see him as a pure villain. Unlike, for example, Liquid Snake, Vergil does have moments of humanity. It was said the twins were the same as children, then their mother's death set them on different paths, but with same goal. We were never told what happened to Vergil on his path, all we can work with is the man that craves power for purposes that he does not explain at the end of it.
I reserve my final judgement until after DMC4SE, if it does shed a little light on his motivation.

 

[Bazilican]

Sometimes I wonder, if these games and characters aggravate you so much, if fans who find something to love about them aggravate you so much, why still bother with it after all these years? It's not like it's a job you hate, your finances will not suffer if you call it quits, quite the contrary.

I couldn't give a single crap about the fans of Vergil, I focused on his character, and from what I've seen, his character seems one dimensional. How others see him is there own cup of tea.
I didn't post my thoughts of him to challenge anyone else's views. Just sharing my own.

 

[Foxtrot94]

Vergil saw himself as too weak to protect her, and so became obsessed with the Demonic power and legacy of his father. He wanted to live up to the version of Sparda he had idealized in his own mind, and become the next "Legendary Dark Knight". Ironically though, Vergil never really came to understand what made Sparda so powerful, never realized that all that strength was secondary to actually having something good to fight for. Dante and even Nero recognized this, but Vergil was always too blinded by his own vision.

That's why I like Vergil so much really. Despite all these allusions to being the Dragon, the Emperor, the First Son, he was never truly aware of what it meant to actually inherit the will of his father.

Sorry for not having replied to this Vel, I thought I did, but looking back in the thread, nope, I didn't :/

But yeah that's one of the reasons why I like him too.

Ironically, the reason for his seek of power is very human, which COULD qualify him... if his methods weren't so cruel and violent. Evil was born from good, if you will.

 

[Neigh Bird]

Sometimes I wonder, if these games and characters aggravate you so much, if fans who find something to love about them aggravate you so much, why still bother with it after all these years? It's not like it's a job you hate, your finances will not suffer if you call it quits, quite the contrary.

I'm not saying you need to leave, I'm just trying to understand humans.

This isn't directed towards me, but as someone who've been part of many fandoms and communities, I have to say that this is natural when you've 1. become so attached to a show/game/franchise/etc and 2. discuss it quite a bit. There is bound to be a few things that triggers you after a while. Unless you're a very, very level headed guy, which are pretty rare.

But anyway, to add to the discussion, DMC's story have always been a guilty pleasure for me. I don't ask for phenomenal writing, well developed characters, or anything else of the sort. What I want is to be entertained through badass characters and over-the-top action that are just fun to watch. It accommodates the stylish gameplay well, IMO. I remember the first time playing DMC3 (my first DMC), and I was just blown away by how ridiculous things were. And I mean that in a good way. Here we are, set in a dark, depressing, and twisted world overcome by demons and our protagonist is a badass cliche treating it like it's candy land, kicking ass in style while rocking to some sick beats. And then, accidentally, during gameplay I performed ''free ride'' for the first time and my head exploded. That's what I crave for in DMC. W/ DMC3's Virgil, I always thought he was a perfect antagonist for the franchise. He's another cliche badass and his actions in the game were irredeemable, but I was fine w/ that because he still deliver everything I ask for in the narrative.

 

[Foxtrot94]

This isn't directed towards me, but as someone who've been part of many fandoms and communities, I have to say that this is natural when you've 1. become so attached to a show/game/franchise/etc and 2. discuss it quite a bit. There is bound to be a few things that triggers you after a while. Unless you're a very, very level headed guy, which are pretty rare.

But anyway, to add to the discussion, DMC's story have always been a guilty pleasure for me. I don't ask for phenomenal writing, well developed characters, or anything else of the sort. What I want is to be entertained through badass characters and over-the-top action that are just fun to watch. It accommodates the stylish gameplay well, IMO. I remember the first time playing DMC3 (my first DMC), and I was just blown away by how ridiculous things were. And I mean that in a good way. Here we are, set in a dark, depressing, and twisted world overcome by demons and our protagonist is a badass cliche treating it like it's candy land, kicking ass in style while rocking to some sick beats. And then, accidentally, during gameplay I performed ''free ride'' for the first time and my head exploded. That's what I crave for in DMC. W/ DMC3's Virgil, I always thought he was a perfect antagonist for the franchise. He's another cliche badass and his actions in the game were irredeemable, but I was fine w/ that. He had a decent sense of humor and often fell victim to his human side (often showing signs of human emotion such as pride, anger, narcissism, etc). There was just enough character to keep me caring in the narrative.

I may be mistaken but the first part of the second paragraph seems almost like you're trying to justify yourself. If that's the case, you absolutely don't have to, that's a legit thought.

 

[Neigh Bird]

I may be mistaken but the first part of the second paragraph seems almost like you're trying to justify yourself. If that's the case, you absolutely don't have to, that's a legit thought.

Oh no, I'm new here so I'm trying to express my general thoughts on things so you guys can know me better. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[Foxtrot94]

Oh no, I'm new here so I'm trying to express my general thoughts on things so you guys can know me better.

Oh ok I misunderstood then

But yeah I share your view. I too don't look for particularly deep narrative in an action game like the kind of Devil May Cry. I do for games like the Batman Arkham series because obviously, they are about characters coming from a story driven medium (comics), but in the end yes, I agree that the kind of narrative has to match the kind of gameplay, cause this is the gaming medium we're talking about. Not that it's something so out of the world anyway, it's the basis of game designing /directing.

So yeah I see where you're coming from.

 

[Chancey289]

Sometimes I wonder, if these games and characters aggravate you so much, if fans who find something to love about them aggravate you so much, why still bother with it after all these years? It's not like it's a job you hate, your finances will not suffer if you call it quits, quite the contrary.

I'm not saying you need to leave, I'm just trying to understand humans.

I love Devil May Cry. I am a Devil May Cry nerd. Which is why I step back and discuss things about the series. Analyzing it more than most where it excels and where it fails. That's why I freakin bother. Simple as that. I do this with pretty much everything I love.

I have no problem with people still liking a character I hate. That doesn't aggravate me. And I can still see why people like Vergil even if I don't like him, what aggravates me is the opposing side being treated like our opinions hold no relevance by some people in here. This mentality that we gotta be with them or against them needs to stop. And yea, I'm more brutally honest than most when it comes to conveying my opinion, but I'm also just discussing a fictional character. No one should take personal offense to that.

 

[WolfOD64]

Sometimes I wonder, if these games and characters aggravate you so much, if fans who find something to love about them aggravate you so much, why still bother with it after all these years? It's not like it's a job you hate, your finances will not suffer if you call it quits, quite the contrary.

Whoa, whoa. THE games? THE characters? THE fans?

Steady the carriage horses. I think we're generalizing a tad bit here, don't you think?
I hate CERTIAN things about DMC. Not DMC's characters and story as a whole...

I might be living in a bygone age, but I do recall the act of playing games to be something to do with engrossing oneself with other factors besides the stuff I don't like? I wouldn't be on this forum, or a fan, if I didn't like everything else in the game. I love the gameplay in DMC, most of the characters (with the somewhat ironic exclusion of the series' protogonist), all the weapons and lore, and especially the soundtrack, which has been consistently good in every entry so far.


So why does picking out the things I don't like become equivalent to "You hate everything, so why u talk about it?"

If I couldn't screech my fanboy motorped to a halt and let some naggling, complaints surface, I wouldn't be a proper fan. A fan acknowledges what he likes and dislikes about a franchise/fandom he or she adores. Mind you, I'm perfectly aware that I've more or less established myself as somewhat of a Negative Nellie when it comes to what I've said on this forum about DMC, but that's only because the stuff I dislike comes up in recent discussions pretty often.

I can gush pretty hard about DMC, if I so choose. Hell, I could take up terabytes of forum space screeching about how much I love DMC4, an opinion that I share with an eternally-shrinking pool of DMC fans. And I'm well aware of that...I'm aware people hate that game for all of its flaws. But I don't question as to why they "barrage and discuss something they dislike", anymore than you should ask why I "barrage and discuss something I dislike." We're all just harmlessly tossing our fanboy opinions about like confetti. None of us mean to tick anyone off, or soil anything they hold dear.

And really none of the fans that "aggravate" me are even on the DMC forums anymore (again, the "fans" I referred to in the previous post do not refer to ANYONE on this thread at all). Most of the people here, even on this thread, have been very courteous...something I appreciate and am even bewildered to behold, considering my tarnished history with THIS particular fanbase.

At this insane rate, I should be expecting a box of complimentary roses from those demonizing hacks over at the Star Fox fanbase.

 

[Veloran]

Which is hilarious, because that novel comes the closest in terms of Kamiya's vision for Vergil as a character than Morihashi's ever did.

Actually, it's the opposite. Kamiya's Vergil was only ever a good person that got kidnapped as a child and turned into a mind-controlled slave of Mundus. Goikeda's Gilver was a monster that willingly served Mundus and reveled in all the killing and torture he was assigned to because he was so evil. Gilver's characterization doesn't match Nelo Angelo's in the slightest.

In DMC3, they split the difference. Vergil retains Gilver's persona of the icy swordsman, but rather than just be a crazy asshole working for the big bad because it's fun, he committed evil acts because he thought it was the right thing to do.

Hell, his plan was to open the Demon world, take Sparda's power, and kill literally all the Demons. That's a terrible thing to do because it would basically destroy Human civilization, but for Vergil it'd allow him to repeat history and more or less replace his father as the venerated Dark Knight. It's such a ridiculous, over the top idea that obviously only someone related to Dante could come up with it.

It was old when they did it, and it was borderline ANCIENT by the time DMC3 did it in 2005.

It's not borderline ancient, it's actually ancient. Diametrically opposed siblings is straight up one of the oldest character dynamics in human history.

 

[DarkSlayerZero]

Actually, it's the opposite. Kamiya's Vergil was only ever a good person that got kidnapped as a child and turned into a mind-controlled slave of Mundus. Goikeda's Gilver was a monster that willingly served Mundus and reveled in all the killing and torture he was assigned to because he was so evil. Gilver's characterization doesn't match Nelo Angelo's in the slightest.

In DMC3, they split the difference. Vergil retains Gilver's persona of the icy swordsman, but rather than just be a crazy asshole working for the big bad because it's fun, he committed evil acts because he thought it was the right thing to do.

Hell, his plan was to open the Demon world, take Sparda's power, and kill literally all the Demons. That's a terrible thing to do because it would basically destroy Human civilization, but for Vergil it'd allow him to repeat history and more or less replace his father as the venerated Dark Knight. It's such a ridiculous, over the top idea that obviously only someone related to Dante could come up with it.

1. They're the same guy.

2. Where'd you get this information?

 

[Foxtrot94]

Whoa, whoa.

Nonono Wolf, that's not good. You haven't just wasted an opportunity to post a pic of Dante saying "Whoooa slow down babe!" in DMC1, have you?

 

[Veloran]

1. They're the same guy.

Technically Gilver doesn't even exist anymore. I was talking about how each author interpreted the character, and they're vastly different.

2. Where'd you get this information?

Uh, DMC1 and Devil May Cry Volume 1? Goikeda nailed Dante's characterization in that book, but his depiction of Gilver was very different from Kamiya's depiction of Nelo Angelo.

 

[Innsmouth]

So why does picking out the things I don't like become equivalent to "You hate everything, so why u talk about it?"
.

Because most of your post on DMC boards shining with negativity. Why does it surprises you that people get such impression?

 

[DarkSlayerZero]

Technically Gilver doesn't even exist anymore. I was talking about how each author interpreted the character, and they're vastly different.


Uh, DMC1 and Devil May Cry Volume 1? Goikeda nailed Dante's characterization in that book, but his depiction of Gilver was very different from Kamiya's depiction of Nelo Angelo.

no, I have the novel i mean about vergil wanting kill demons.

 

[Veloran]

no, I have the novel i mean about vergil wanting kill demons.

Then why'd you highlight..?

Nevermind. It was in the manga, not the novel. You can also see shades of it in the ending of DMC3, and it was also other Vergil's plan in DmC, though the jury's out on whether or not the original actually wanted to rule.

 

[WolfOD64]

Nonono Wolf, that's not good. You haven't just wasted an opportunity to post a pic of Dante saying "Whoooa slow down babe!" in DMC1, have you?

*SIGH*...and yet again, a Fox manages to outwit me and ruin my week.
Story of my life, I suppose. :shifty:

In DMC3, they split the difference. Vergil retains Gilver's persona of the icy swordsman, but rather than just be a crazy asshole working for the big bad because it's fun, he committed evil acts because he thought it was the right thing to do.

Hell, his plan was to open the Demon world, take Sparda's power, and kill literally all the Demons. That's a terrible thing to do because it would basically destroy Human civilization, but for Vergil it'd allow him to repeat history and more or less replace his father as the venerated Dark Knight. It's such a ridiculous, over the top idea that obviously only someone related to Dante could come up with it.

Is it that really the case? Well, that really is interesting. I never considered it from that perspective.
Do tell, does Vergil ever admit or allude to wanting to destroy all demons in-game? I'm genuinely curious.

Because most of your post on DMC boards shining with negativity. Why does it surprises you that people get such impression?

You're right. You're absolutely right. I've never been positive about DMC...
Never...
Ever...
EVER...

And as for that infernal reboot, well...when have I ever given that awful thing an ounce of my time? I don't even remember talking about it.

I mean, if I didn't know any better, I'd go as far as to say that I take existing Devil May Cry games, and LATER Devil May Cry games, and...

*GASP* Compare them with each other?

Call it sorcery or madness, but...it's almost like I like I don't like every single game in the series.

You know....

Something...CRAZY like that...

 

[Foxtrot94]

You're right. You're absolutely right. I've never been positive about DMC...
Never...
Ever...
EVER...

And as for that infernal reboot, well...when have I ever given that awful thing an ounce of my time? I don't even remember talking about it.

I mean, if I didn't know any better, I'd go as far as to say that I take existing Devil May Cry games, and LATER Devil May Cry games, and...

*GASP* Compare them with each other?

Call it sorcery or madness, but...it's almost like I like I don't like every single game in the series.

You know....

Something...CRAZY like that...

Uh sorry but why you quoted me? I didn't accuse you of what you've just addressed in this post. That was just a friendly joke of mine, really.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

Please guys can we keep the hostility and unnecessary sarcasm to a minimum. It's becoming a tad tedious here. Thanks.

 

[Veloran]

Is it that really the case? Well, that really is interesting. I never considered it from that perspective.
Do tell, does Vergil ever admit or allude to wanting to destroy all demons in-game? I'm genuinely curious.

In 3 itself, it's mainly suggested through Vergil's actions. He kills every Demon he comes across, tries to take down Mundus, that kind of thing. In the manga, he says he'll put Dante out of business by unleashing the Demon world and showing everyone what he's capable of.

You could interpret that alone to mean Vergil wishes to destroy the Human world and rule the Demons, but combined with everything else we know about his character it wouldn't add up. As noted before he feels guilty about not being able to protect his mother as a child, has quite a bit of distain for Demons (Killing them constantly throughout his life), and was utterly obsessed with the legend of his father Sparda. Put it all together, and you're left with the idea that Vergil wanted to become the next Sparda - Maybe even better, if he really did intent to wipe out all Devils - by inheriting his power and "saving" the world from the Demons. Other Vergil's plan was more or less the same exact thing too, just replace the mother guilt and Sparda idolation as motivators with an inferiority complex and overwhelming desire for control to compensate.