I had a whole, much larger post to reply before leaving, but this really sort of encapsulates the entire thing (which in and of itself is large).
That is literally exactly what being honorable means. Having conviction and integrity in your beliefs and actions.
Say what you will about him, but Vergil is very, very motivated to stick to his (Metaphorical) guns no matter what. Being honorable isn't strictly about being good or just, it's about conducting yourself in a certain way. Carrying yourself with distinction and dignity, being illustrious. Vergil's entire persona speaks to that image.
No, not at all. Honor very much
is, wholeheartedly, about being good or just. Your conduct certainly plays a role, but it's your intentions toward and how they effect society that ultimately determine if you're actually honorable or not.
Honor doe snot simply mean having convictions and integrity in ones own beliefs. The entire concept of honor is built upon society's view of a person, and how you fit into it. Having the convictions to end world hunger is honorable because of what it does for society, it is honorable and to be venerated. Having the convictions to gain unlimited power at the cost of everyone else around you is not honorable, it is sociopathic and no one would rightly respect such ideals. You can certainly respect his conviction alone, because conviction in and of itself is commendable, but it's the actions fueled by that conviction that ultimately matter.
It is completely abhorrent that I'm gonna go here,
considering the implications of doing such a thing, but goddamn, Hitler had convictions, and he used it to murder millions of people. ISIS militants have convictions, and they use it to murder people of different faiths. Bill Gates has convictions, and he uses it to eradicate illnesses in third-world countries. I have convictions, and I use them to create a better life for myself and the people I love. Vergil has convictions, and he uses them to achieve power, at the cost of everyone else on the planet - including his own brother. Hell, it even
dishonors his father's legacy by undoing everything Sparda did to protect humanity. Vergil's actions are
not to be respected, although his convictions can be.
I seriously need you to acknowledge the concept of honor and how it was used, and Hell,
still is used, in some cultures.
That is by default the definition of honor and face, of respect for people and how they in turn respect you. People die and kill for honor, because it was the thing that mattered most in society - how other people regarded you. Vegil
does not at all fit that description, nor any of the definitions you said he does, given that those definitions rely on the adherence to the concepts of honor and respect as something
good. Someone is distinguished when their merits or rank make them someone to be respected. Someone is honorable when they demand (overtly or though position) respect.
None of this matters in most cultures these days because it's entirely predicated on the concern of how other people see each other, and c'mon, rightly who gives a crap what other people think? Screw 'em. China and Japan still struggle with getting past these archaic concepts, and places in the Middle-East
still adhere to concepts like it because "Oh no, what will people think" if I don't kill my daughter for acting like a girl of the 21st century. When you honor someone's memory, you're respecting them as a person. When you call a judge "Your honor," it's out of respect for their purveyance over the court.
The only point Vergil has
ever been honorable or respectful, was actually when he was Nelo Angelo (the bare minimum of who he was), and gave him and Dante a decent place to fight, instead of just suckerpunching him from the mirror. That was a minuscule amount of respect for the fight and Dante, and nowhere else has he ever shown respect for others. That one bit, does not define his character. Much in the same way that telling a bum I don't have spare change does not suddenly make me an untrustworthy, pathological liar; Nelo Angelo offering up a decent place to fight does not make him a complete and utter man of honor, considering everything Vergil has done previously.
Actually, to that point, Dante called Nelo Angelo a man of guts and honor, but this was before he knew it was Vergil. His opinion of the guy probably would have changed if he had known from the beginning.
If Vergil truly wants power to make up for how powerless he was in protecting his mother, that's not exactly honorable either. It's not gonna bring her back, and he's doing it ultimately for himself. If by some rationalization that leads him to want that power to ultimately bring ruination on all of demonkind in revenge, that's super cool and a really great motivation for the character, but his ways of doing so aren't honorable, because others are put at risk, and ultimately it's still for himself. If it was a "for the greater good" sorta thing, then it'd be debatable, but we just don't know. Maybe DMC4se will give us just a liiiiittle bit more info.
Even ignoring all of the above, Vergil (And Dante for that matter) would be honorable by virtue of coming from a distinguished bloodline. Their dad was basically Jesus Christ or King Arthur of that universe.
They most certainlny do come from a distinguished bloodline, but it is no longer distinguished by demons because Sparda betrayed them. It's a tainted line of douchebags as far as they're concerned. The Order of the Sword regards them highly, definitely, and Dante is certainly a distinguished member of the bloodline, having taken up protecting humanity like Sparda did (sort of, he was in it for revenge originally), but Vergil? Vergil is a black sheep who dishonors his bloodline. In cultures that would care about such things, he would be dragging their name through the muck. The Order of the Sword would have hated Vergil for his part in putting humanity in danger when he was alive, in direct contradiction to what their lord and savior Sparda had done.
And no, we can't simply accept it as fact if he himself might believe he's honorable. Fictional villains can and will believe anything of themselves, in spite of the falseness of it. Hell, that's often a part of what gives them better characterization and makes them more sympathetic. However, that does not make what they think true.
Love him for his intense conviction in what he wants, but recognize, for the
love of God,
recognize how damaged of a person he is. Vergil is a sociopath through and through, and he actively disrespects not only the lives of others by putting them in danger and using them, but also their memories, like undoing everything his father had done.
However, this does not make him a bad character. He's not really a bad character at all, he just needs a lot more work, than what he got in DMC3 :/
~
And with that, I'm done. Sorry LordofDarkness, just...I don't know when to quit I guess. Except now. Maybe...
