The difference between DMC's humans and DmC's humans

[DragonMaster2010]

Yeah right. Thats just a joke. "But she could have asked somewhere where we never see, suspected or have impression she did." that's just one hell of a straw, you grasping on there.

In case you never noticed, that's what EVERYONE does in this fandom with DMC AND DmC. All we do is grasp for straws. We do it with Vergil, we do it with Dante's past, we do it with Nero's origins.

Or maybe some people can't past their fanboyism and gonna sugar paint anything about DmC. And that Kat was nothing but a plot tool, isn't only mine opinion since I saw some people on this very forum expressing same opinion. At least I don't try to portrait DMC women as some well written characters. If you don't like to hear other side of argument, maybe you shouldn't have opened discussion, since you know, apparently you expected some wild cult praise for DmC humans and bashing of DMC ones.

There's a difference between expression an opinion, and acting like a total jackass.

All you've been doing is trying to prove me wrong on something that's as clear as day in the instance of her character all because you're salty as hell over DmC. I get you don't like it, but don't be a horse's ass over it and try to argue with me and then use the excuse of "its just an opinion" as if it makes it right.

You should be smart enough to realize that when you express an opinion in an obvious aggressive manner, you're gonna get challenged on that opinion because it stirred someone up. Like how in that DmC thread I gave praise to DmC getting 100k over DMC4 with 34k. Who was literally one of the first to get on my case about that?

If you didn't want your opinion argued, you shouldn't have posted here, because this isn't the "Unpopular Opinions" thread where you can use that excuse. This thread is specifically for discussions.

Don't bullshit the bullshit.

 

[Elijah Guerrero]

*Sigh* Looks like another thread will be closed due to the same reasons, pointless arguments.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

*Sigh* Looks like another thread will be closed due to the same reasons, pointless arguments.

And to think it was going so well in the beginning...

 

[Foxtrot94]

Like how in that DmC thread I gave praise to DmC getting 100k over DMC4 with 34k

Well in that case that wasn't an opinion, 34k was just false information (not saying you intentionally made it up, I'm sure you actually believed that was the correct number, but still).

As for the topic, as much as Innsmouth is obviously being negatively biased, gotta admit he made me think. Vergil acted rather kinda like a POS towards her in certain occasions, I still find strange her apparent lack of any doubts about him.

 

[Innsmouth]

There's a difference between expression an opinion, and acting like a total jackass..

If you don't like what I say it doesn't mean I act like a jackass. Because if going by this criteria, you do it as well, by complaining on every single DMC thread.

All you've been doing is trying to prove me wrong on something that's as clear as day in the instance of her character all because you're salty as hell over DmC. I get you don't like it, but don't be a horse's ass over it and try to argue with me and then use the excuse of "its just an opinion" as if it makes it right..

I don't trying to prove you wrong. You may see her in other light, but I said what I saw in the game, and if you don't like other side of the coin, either get over it, or agree to disagree.

You should be smart enough to realize that when you express an opinion in an obvious aggressive manner, you're gonna get challenged on that opinion because it stirred someone up. Like how in that DmC thread I gave praise to DmC getting 100k over DMC4 with 34k. Who was literally one of the first to get on my case about that?

If you didn't want your opinion argued, you shouldn't have posted here, because this isn't the "Unpopular Opinions" thread where you can use that excuse. This thread is specifically for discussions.

Don't bullshit the bullshit.

IF people unwilling to hear opposing them argument, they shouldn't start discussing it. Because its not a discussion, when one side when ran out of arguments plays "but you're just a hater" card. If you can't add something based on something we actually saw and can judge in the game, there is no point to debate it. And these whole thread exists only because you started arguing over opinion on the other thread. So do a favour and before complaining about someone's attitude, you probably should at least act any different. And don't start on sales thread. Because what you did was factually intended or unintended misinformation.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

If you don't like what I say it doesn't mean I act like a jackass. Because if going by this criteria, you do it as well, by complaining on every single DMC thread.

First off, I don't go right into DMC4 threads and say it sucks all day everyday. I admit its good points and I do give it the benefit of the doubt when I do like something on it. (gameplay, costumes, etc.)

I don't trying to prove you wrong. You may see her in other light, but I said what I saw in the game, and if you don't like other side of the coin, either get over it, or agree to disagree.

exactly. But you're not even following your own words yourself.

IF people unwilling to hear opposing them argument, they shouldn't start discussing it. Because its not a discussion, when one side when ran out of arguments plays "but you're just a hater" card. If you can't add something based on something we actually saw and can judge in the game, there is no point to debate it. And these whole thread exists only because you started arguing over opinion on the other thread. So do a favour and before complaining about someone's attitude, you probably should at least act any different. And don't start on sales thread. Because what you did was factually intended or unintended misinformation.

This IS a discussion thread. A discussion thread on the difference in humans between DMC and DmC. Both have their unique ups and downs like its been shown. You constantly point out how you saw her as weak, which wasn't the problem, but then you say she didn't do anything and she whined the entire last half of the game, when she did plenty without the need to actually fight and there's a lot to actually back that up, but you keep running circles around what's obviously there. It's like a single spit of positive DmC stuff, and you loose your mind in trying to say otherwise.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

Okay guys, this has gone far enough now. There will be no more of this arguing here. I have stepped in twice and asked some of you kindly to keep to the topic. Instead it's been turned into an argument over something else completely different.

Now out of respect for the thread creator, I told him that this thread won't be locked permanently. I also said that since @Innsmouth most of this negativity, hostility, arguing (Whatever you wish to call it) is coming from yourself, me and the OP have spoke and I have decided that a more fairer solution as an oppose to simply locking this thread would be to reply ban you from this topic. I haven't exactly decided on how long this reply ban will be put in place for, but perhaps a more relevant and less argumentative discussion might blossom with your input's absence.

@DragonMaster2010: I can understand your frustration and see your point. But name-calling (no matter how severe) sided with continuing the argument yourself isn't a smart thing to do either.

I keep finding myself repeating the same thing over and over again. And that is if someone is being a problem to you, then you can either report them or ignore them. You have the options there at your disposal, yet in so many cases you choose not to use them. And believe you me the report button is there for reasons like this (arguments, name-calling) and this kind if thing carries on in these threads and nobody attempts to change anything about it. You expect it to just be resolved with an amazing solution after a consistent amount of pages of arguing, a solution other than the thread being closed. Because quite frankly I'm sick of that being the case when a thread gets to a point like this one. Why? Because not only do you guys carry it on but when mods/admins do step in we end up hearing things like "Oh you always lock threads" or "I guess this thread is going to get locked". Yes it's our job to monitor threads, but we can't make sure your feelings aren't being hurt, you aren't being insulted or anything like that 24/7. That's exactly why the report system and ignore function is in place. It wouldn't go a miss for some of you to actually use these features instead of complain when threads end up being shut down.

 

[V's patron]

I do think it is an oversight that the Order doesn't really have combat capabilities outside of Dante but I saw that a sign that Vergil despite having the best of intentions/ambitions, he's really shortsighted and wouldn't actually be a good leader( which would be interesting to toy around with)

Its hard to discuss tho mostly we don't see the issue really expressed in the story outside of 2 characters(Kat and Lady)

 

[Lain]

Well Credo was apparently able to fend off demons before getting the ascension upgrade, so even discounting Lady's ambiguous situation, humans can fight off low level demons with enough training and weaponry.

 

[WolfOD64]

Well Credo was apparently able to fend off demons before getting the ascension upgrade.

That's a good point. I would assume that the members of the Order of the Sword would have to be capable fighters to fight demons...especially since their Ascension being such a recent factor (what with Yamato being discovered right before the events of the game).

If that's the case, Credo must be something of a hard-ass if he can face demons with human strength and skill alone.

 

[absolitude]

not much different really, human inhabitants in both world aren't really depicted wholy, both acted as a fill-in and background, "this story takes place in a human world".. and i wont consider both Lady and Kat as humans, if both really are human, then others could also deal with demons instead of just running around in cutscenes.. all it takes is training with firepower and training with spells and magic, not really that hard --in those worlds

DMC and DmCs are a very lonely place where only the main characters actually exists, and i'm only talking about the games, like prometheus, i don't care about anything outside of the main source

 

[TWOxACROSS]

I do think it is an oversight that the Order doesn't really have combat capabilities outside of Dante but I saw that a sign that Vergil despite having the best of intentions/ambitions, he's really shortsighted and wouldn't actually be a good leader( which would be interesting to toy around with)

I wouldn't say it's short-sightedness in the least, it's just that given the enemy, Dante and Vergil were really the only ones that could take the fight straight to their doorstep, and Vergil wanted to remain hidden so as not to clue Mundus in that there were more Nephilim than the one he was looking for. The humans in The Order did as much as they could through gathering and dissemination of secretive information on the demons and sabotage and all that, but the Nephilim were the only ones that could pull it off in the end - hence one of the reasons why he sought out Dante, to not only reunite with his long lost brother, but to also get him out on the frontline. It's actually kinda clever; only Nephilim can take the fight into Limbo, and Vergil stayed hidden up until he stabbed Mundus in the back, and used Dante to fight the war for him, given that they already knew Dante existed.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

*fake coughs so hard it actually causes some respiratory damage*

 

[Elijah Guerrero]

*fake coughs so hard it actually causes some respiratory damage*

*Calls 911 to get this man to the hospital for help*

 

[LordOfDarkness]

I'd say that @Foxtrot94 has given a pretty adequate answer. There are clear differences between Lady and Kat, and how DMC and DmC seems to portray humans differs in the sense that Lady is seen to be a fighter (in a physical sense) whereas Kat is strong in another sense. Each are unique and have their own personal strengths and qualities that have their advantages where and when required.

Also something I wanted to mention and bring to the discussion is how both DMC and DmC (in regards to humans) play on the fact that humans can actually become demons themselves. Lady and Kat share the biggest similarity in that respect as both of their fathers became demons.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Also something I wanted to mention and bring to the discussion is how both DMC and DmC (in regards to humans) play on the fact that humans can actually become demons themselves. Lady and Kat share the biggest similarity in that respect as both of their fathers became demons.

I don't think Kat's father became a demon as oppose to him always being a demon in disguise as a human.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

I don't think Kat's father became a demon as oppose to him always being a demon in disguise as a human.

Right. But my point still stands. What I was trying to get at was the striking resemblance between the two characters in that nature. Both have fathers that don't care for them and Kat was unaware of him being a demon (I assume up until the point that Vergil opened her eyes to the harsh reality) the comparison I was making was to connect the two together, as to me Kat is DmC's altered version of Lady.

 

[berto]

Well.

DMC1 had no humans, DMC2 didn't either, DMC3 had Lady, and DMC4 had the background lot, Kyrie, and the 'angels' who got acceded. DmC had Kat, it's background lot and the fat dude with the soda can and the two strippers.

The problem with the premise is that DMC has shifted in themes and elements so many times that the 'rules' that govern that universe change with pretty much every iteration. There's the novels, the manga, the anime, and the games. For the most part every single separate one of those goes off differently as to what is or isn't possible.

Let's say the humans in DMC1 and DMC2 are represented in each of their novels since DMC1's was director approved and DMC2's was also approved by Capcom. The humans there, aside from being poorly written and sometimes a tad cliché they're pretty down to earth humans, they wouldn't survive a rocket blast at that proximity, either, and if Lady existed in those two renditions she probably couldn't pull half of those moves off. The manga had a similar 'universe,' the only ones who were capable of pulling off beyond human feats were Dante, Vergil, and the demons. Those humans were all pretty grounded, pretty meh in the outfit department, but still nothing beyond the notion of what humans can do, not even Lady.

DMC3 and 4 are where the games start taking liberties with physics, ballistics, matter density and the general scientific theories of cause and effect. DMC4 even more so, that one just became a Sengoku Basara game. 1 and 2 might've stretched the laws of motion a bit but 3 and 4 are making Copernicus and Newton turn on their graves. The only thing a human needs to defy the most basic of physics is to be near center stage; The closer they get to it the less bound to them they are, Kyrie might be the single exception due to been a cliché of her own. The anime might have less than outrageous as to what the human populace can do but they are dressed like idiots and it's just as bad.

DmC's general public is a tad different. They are more cliché on a different direction. The only examples we have of them are the fat guy, the stripper, the disembodied voice on the news report during the Bob fight, the cops, and the tweeter posts at the end. The fat guy said nothing, and the strippers had nothing to offer, except a 'f--- you.' The cops were a bit more lively with the conversation, they were a bunch stereotypical, corrupt, violent cops who are all too happy to be so; they don't behave like real officers, even corrupt ones, and they sound like stereotypical comic book villains. The disembodied voice was such a cliché sounding dumb girl I'm surprised she managed to restrict herself from saying 'like' at the start or end of each sentence. The tweeter posts tell me that the the humans here are a product of internet philosophy, not real people.

The humans in DmC might not be action oriented but they are pretty phony, as phony as that little boy in DMC4 who needed to be rescued by Kyrie and the other faceless crowd there. DMC has never had the most real depiction of anything, not sure why the humans would be any different than the rest. Neither Kyrie, the 'angels,' Lady nor Kat nor the fat dude are depictions of real people and even in the world of fiction they are lacking in terms of what makes a human believable as a human and come off as, shall we say, obvious fiction and in terms of depth and realism and closest anyone gets to been a well written, emotionally believable, human is Lady in DMC3 and even she disregards the basic laws of physics with such nonchalance you'd think she didn't believe in Newton, like gravity was a conspiracy.

 

[V's patron]

@LordOfDarkness , I think the person Kat killed was her stepfather not her actual dad.

So on topic I can't really say either series portrayed humans well but I don't think it's on purpose, just not really a priority.

I am curious to how DmC tackles the fall of Limbo tho as it could have an adverse affect on humans. Or not

 

[LordOfDarkness]

@Z218: Yeah, I'm aware of that. But I was getting at the fact that she considered him as her father. For some people stepfather/foster-father/whatever-else-father still means father to them, so in this relation we can still say that both of their fathers were evil. Hence why I said that for me DmC Kat = DMC's Lady (just minus all of the fancy asskicking). Both technically kill their fathers also (well in Lady's case that's debatable) but she does shoot him at the end of DMC 3 when he still appears to be alive. And if Kat's foster-father was an actual demon, how did Kat manage to kill him? Because as many have pointed out, she never shows any display of her physical power/capabilities. Yet apparently has had some training in fighting and was able to kill her father who was actually a demon.