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The difference between DMC's humans and DmC's humans

Innsmouth said:
Because thats pretty much means Kat is completely unimportant and her only role being damsel and distress.
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No, a damsel in distress is someone whose only goal is to be rescued. Kat only needed to be rescued ONCE but surveyed the entire tower to help Dante and Vergil defeat Mundus.
Being saved from a situation doesn't make you a damsel.
 
The general idea of this thread is to compare humans from DMC to humans in DmC (Which makes it a discussion that's really not just singled to DmC, so @DragonMaster2010 would you like me to move it to DMC General Discussion or leave it here?)

Also @Innsmouth, you're not really helping the discussion by continuing to simply call Kat useless because of her actions in DmC. This doesn't compare her with humans from DMC, it's just calling her useless and it's not doing much for the topic.
 
DragonMaster2010 said:
No, a damsel in distress is someone whose only goal is to be rescued. Kat only needed to be rescued ONCE but surveyed the entire tower to help Dante and Vergil defeat Mundus.
Being saved from a situation doesn't make you a damsel.
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Well considering that rest of what she's done could have been done without her, means her role reduced to being an object protected by Dante.
LordOfDarkness said:
Also @Innsmouth, you're not really helping the discussion by continuing to simply call Kat useless because of her actions in DmC. This doesn't compare her with humans from DMC, it's just calling her useless and it's not doing much for the topic.
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Even id you don't like to hear it, that's more than related to the topic, because from female characters able to act and decide on their own in DMC, they went to pretty much helpless, defenceless female, who on top of that was completely replaceable in terms of her action, and on top of them served primary as somebody to be pitied, protected and saved, falling completely in Damsel in Distress trope.
 
Foxtrot94 said:
LOL? Not really, don't exaggerate now.

Besides, the only female that falls under the damsel in distress trope in the franchise is Kyrie. Kat in comparison is an utter and complete badass.
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Well, compared to Trish, Lady or Lucia, Kat is definitely as helpless as it gets.
 
Foxtrot94 said:
It's still not true what you said.
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IF according to DragonMaster Dante could transfer between dimensions without her help, that basically reduces her role to mix between tool and helpless damsel. And considering that she didn't had guts to open mouth and stand on her own two, makes not only her abilities but also her personality weak.
 
Because a young girl who is willing to stand up against an army of demons significantly stronger than her who, risk her life multiple times and undergoes torture for the sake of leverage among other things is somehow "weak".

The only reason you keep on is because you hate this video game with a ridiculous passion. Everyone is telling you how much you're wrong, but you'll just still keep arguing out of petty hatred. *sigh*
 
And this is why I tried to suggest we keep the whole 'Kat = Useless' thing out of this topic. I'd say you aren't really discussing the main point here, and I'm rather inclined to agree with Foxtrot and Chancey that @Innsmouth, you're more so slandering Kat as a character more than likely because you don't have much of a preference towards DmC. I'm not seeing how any of this really gets to the point of this topic. I'd say drop any negativity you hold for her as a character and try to push on with giving comparisons to what they can/can't do rather than if Kat was needed for DmC or if she was an irrelevant character. There was a thread about that before and all of this would have better fitted in there rather than here (so I'd suggest making another thread to properly discuss it) or keep this out of this one, or else I can see this just leading into an argument about - surprise surprise - DmC. Which I don't want to see!
 
When it comes to humans' depiction, I'd say the concept is roughly the same: they're mostly a helpless lot with one remarkable member (Lady and Kat) that stands out from the rest and is a main character in the plot.
 
@LordOfDarkness even if people rather prefer to overlook it still won't change how her role was built in the game. In DMC games in both DMC3 and DMC4 (well except for Kyrie) females acted on their own accord and from their own personal decisions. What people tend to ignore that Kat merely followed her orders and when she understood that she doesn't needed anymore she stand motionless and didn't said a word. Strong individuums act from free will. Weak follow those individuals that are stronger than them. What Kat pretty much does. So maybe it's time to take off pink glasses and start seeing things for what they are and not what developers WANTED it to be.
 
Innsmouth said:
@LordOfDarkness even if people rather prefer to overlook it still won't change how her role was built in the game. In DMC games in both DMC3 and DMC4 (well except for Kyrie) females acted on their own accord and from their own personal decisions. What people tend to ignore that Kat merely followed her orders and when she understood that she doesn't needed anymore she stand motionless and didn't said a word. Strong individuums act from free will. Weak follow those individuals that are stronger than them. What Kat pretty much does. So maybe it's time to take off pink glasses and start seeing things for what they are and not what developers WANTED it to be.
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So by this logic, Kat is a helpless and useless character for choosing to follow Vergil and join his cause? Could the same be said for Dante considering that he basically does everything Vergil asks him to do (killing demons etc.)?
 
BLACKSWIPE said:
So by this logic, Kat is a helpless and useless character for choosing to follow Vergil and join his cause? Could the same be said for Dante considering that he basically does everything Vergil asks him to do (killing demons etc.)?
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No. Because she blindly followed his cause. Even when he abandoned her she didn't even question if Vergil gives a damn about her. She is the most obvious example when somebody asks you to jump from the roof and you jump, without even thinking.
 
Innsmouth said:
No. Because she blindly followed his cause. Even when he abandoned her she didn't even question if Vergil gives a damn about her. She is the most obvious example when somebody asks you to jump from the roof and you jump, without even thinking.
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Well you got a point there. If I were her, I would have asked myself a couple of questions. Yet she passively took it without even wondering.
 
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Foxtrot94 said:
Well you got a point there. If I were her, I would have asked myself a couple of questions. Yet she passively took it without even wondering.
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How do we know she didn't actually ask questions y'know BEFORE the game and DURING Chronicles of Vergil, and Vergil lied about most of those answers?

Innsmouth said:
@LordOfDarkness even if people rather prefer to overlook it still won't change how her role was built in the game. In DMC games in both DMC3 and DMC4 (well except for Kyrie) females acted on their own accord and from their own personal decisions. What people tend to ignore that Kat merely followed her orders and when she understood that she doesn't needed anymore she stand motionless and didn't said a word. Strong individuums act from free will. Weak follow those individuals that are stronger than them. What Kat pretty much does. So maybe it's time to take off pink glasses and start seeing things for what they are and not what developers WANTED it to be.
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"Take off your pink glasses"? That's a load of bullshit in every manner. DmC gets to have its character study on a character just as much as DMC can.
boy, please. Go somewhere with that mess.
 
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Foxtrot94 said:
Then those questions would have returned to my mind stronger than ever, if I were her.

But yeah, who knows.
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When someone has terrible trust issues, they will usually cling to the person they've finally began to trust with all they have and will even turn a blind eye to some of the things that person does.
Look at Harley Quinn and Joker.
 
Didn't Project X Zone divulge that Lady is more than human because she has some priestess blood in her or something? Either way :p I don't think there's really much of a difference between the humans in either universe, given that Lady couldn't take out anything tougher than a basic goon (albeit with the requisite style).

Foxtrot94 said:
But demons can only be killed in Limbo, right? Mundus was exception cause he drew power from the Hell Gate so as Vergil says, in his case, if they kill his human body, they kill the demon too once the Gate is shut..
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Demons are powerless in human form because they're soul is locked in the body with them. That's why Limbo is so important to them, it's the place where their powers can affect the physical realm. In Limbo they can still be killed, because they're in their true form (complete with their soul, again). It just so happens that in Limbo, you're litrally on their turf, and killing them is gonna be much more difficult.

Mundus was immortal because he kept his soul past the Hellgate, which he also used for power. Their plot to draw Mundus away from and close the Hellgate was because it shoved his soul into his body, where they could kill him.

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Kat is very much a pure noncombatant. It's just not what she was trained for, or is capable of without extensive training. Whatever other spells she may have, they do still take time to prepare (she's said as such), and at most when The Order HQ was being raided, she certainly didn't have more on her than what allowed for bridging to Limbo. She did what she could, and (directed at only a few obvious people) who gives two curly brown wads about how useful she is compared to Lady? They're interesting characters, although I find Kat to be a bit more unique in concept and execution.

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And I'm sorry guys, I gotta...

Innsmouth said:
No. Because she blindly followed his cause. Even when he abandoned her she didn't even question if Vergil gives a damn about her. She is the most obvious example when somebody asks you to jump from the roof and you jump, without even thinking.
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Kat did not blindly follow Vergil. He showed her that everything she was seeing was real, and the world was in fact in quite a lot of trouble. She followed him because she had the ability to help. Sure she admires the guy for having saved her life and opening her eyes, but she did not just blindly go along with whatever he was doing.

And "even when he abandoned her she didn't question if Vergil gives a damn about her"? You mean twenty seconds before the credits rolled, where no more dialogue could pop up. Or maybe she didn't question him because he flat out called her simply "useful" and nothing more during all his talk about how weak and dumb humans are. She didn't question Vergil's departure because a) the guy straight up dissed her and her race, and b) if she truly had been blindly following him, she would have been way more concerned about his disappearance, but no, her commitment was to the cause, to Dante, and to humanity - not Vergil.

And seriously dude, seriously, just stop. You've been proven factually wrong countless times over a multitude of different circumstances. Your slanted opinions on DmC just don't hold up against people who actually know what they're talking about.
 
TWOxACROSS said:
Kat did not blindly follow Vergil. He showed her that everything she was seeing was real, and the world was in fact in quite a lot of trouble. She followed him because she had the ability to help. Sure she admires the guy for having saved her life and opening her eyes, but she did not just blindly go along with whatever he was doing.

And "even when he abandoned her she didn't question if Vergil gives a damn about her"? You mean twenty seconds before the credits rolled, where no more dialogue could pop up. Or maybe she didn't question him because he flat out called her simply "useful" and nothing more during all his talk about how weak and dumb humans are. She didn't question Vergil's departure because a) the guy straight up dissed her and her race, and b) if she truly had been blindly following him, she would have been way more concerned about his disappearance, but no, her commitment was to the cause, to Dante, and to humanity - not Vergil.

And seriously dude, seriously, just stop. You've been proven factually wrong countless times over a multitude of different circumstances. Your slanted opinions on DmC just don't hold up against people who actually know what they're talking about.
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Except she did. I mean Vergil literally left her for dead in HQ. And there are no way she didn't understood it, unless, sorry she was dumb. Yet she didn't asked why he did, or didn't even questioned it. She simply returned and acted like nothing.Hell in exchange Verigl literally put her on fire line without giving a damn if she catches bullet. Thats why whole talk about how she is strong girl is nothing but a hot air.

She only showed some commitment for Dante, when Vergil openly said that she is nothing but a tool. Except she treated her as one for the whole game, and she didn't even asked herself or him or anyone why. After that I honestly dint surprised that Vergil came to conclusion that humans weak and dumb, especially with human like Kat on his team.

And I honestly don't care that people refuse to put their pink glasses away. There are facts shown in the game and no amount of "b..b…b…but developer said…." can sugarcoat them. Some people should stop to blindly listen to the game marketing and open their eyes instead.
DragonMaster2010 said:
How do we know she didn't actually ask questions y'know BEFORE the game and DURING Chronicles of Vergil, and Vergil lied about most of those answers?.
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Yeah right. Thats just a joke. "But she could have asked somewhere where we never see, suspected or have impression she did." that's just one hell of a straw, you grasping on there.

DragonMaster2010 said:
"Take off your pink glasses"? That's a load of bullshit in every manner. DmC gets to have its character study on a character just as much as DMC can.
boy, please. Go somewhere with that mess.
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Or maybe some people can't past their fanboyism and gonna sugar paint anything about DmC. And that Kat was nothing but a plot tool, isn't only mine opinion since I saw some people on this very forum expressing same opinion. At least I don't try to portrait DMC women as some well written characters. If you don't like to hear other side of argument, maybe you shouldn't have opened discussion, since you know, apparently you expected some wild cult praise for DmC humans and bashing of DMC ones.
 
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