your fave anti-hero

[Keaton]

@absolitude: The way that I see it is a character can go from hero/villain/anti-hero /anti-villain in a matter of seconds, and all it really depends on is their actions within a current situation.

This can make it tricky to understand where on the scale of good and evil do some characters fit.

You get the impression that DmC Vergil is doing the right thing, but he's doing it more for himself, and for his own intentions. That's why up until the end he cares about his brother, is by his side, and even saves him from death. However, as soon as he's aware that Dante wants no part in his plan, it's "you're either with me, or against me". Not to mention that Vergil probably wouldn't bother to save Kat if it came to it, whereas Dante would. This clearly shows Vergil's true nature of selfishness, and ruling the humans wouldn't be about protecting them as much as appearing superior to them. I mean, Kat regarded him as a close friend, and Vergil practically insults her by calling her (alongside the rest of humanity) weak.

My big problem with Vergil in DmC is his attitude.
DMC3 showed off a cool collected Vergil whom at the very least respected those weaker than him, even if he believed himself above them. Vergil in DmC is a selfish child by comparison, consumed by only himself, whereas in DMC3 he was atleast defined by his principles i.e. 'this belongs to a son of Sparda' 'without power you can protect nothing' etc.

I would actually say, Vergil in DMC3 is an Anti-Hero throughout whereas Vergil DmC is a villian, he didn't transform to become a villian in the end game, the result would've been the same if Kat/Dante hadn't played along like good toys from the beginning. But, I agree, defining an anti-hero is a messy subject with plenty of factors to concider -- I feel it must come down to their divinity - wether they would DO good if they had to, or not. I don't get the feeling that DmC Vergil would've saved Kat or Dante unless it suited his plans, an Anti-Hero such as Shadow (trying to stay consistent) would save the Hero because he knows it's right but not nessacerally because he wanted to -- it would probably get brushed off as "well now you OWE me one" or "that makes us even" or "don't read to much into this...I need you alive so *I * can kill you later", that sorta thing.

 

[absolitude]

@absolitude: The way that I see it is a character can go from hero/villain/anti-hero /anti-villain in a matter of seconds, and all it really depends on is their actions within a current situation.

This can make it tricky to understand where on the scale of good and evil do some characters fit.

You get the impression that DmC Vergil is doing the right thing, but he's doing it more for himself, and for his own intentions. That's why up until the end he cares about his brother, is by his side, and even saves him from death. However, as soon as he's aware that Dante wants no part in his plan, it's "you're either with me, or against me". Not to mention that Vergil probably wouldn't bother to save Kat if it came to it, whereas Dante would. This clearly shows Vergil's true nature of selfishness, and ruling the humans wouldn't be about protecting them as much as appearing superior to them. I mean, Kat regarded him as a close friend, and Vergil practically insults her by calling her (alongside the rest of humanity) weak.

no, about DmC vergil, i never thought of him as an anti-hero because, i find his character's writings flawed in the main game, i always see him as good then out of nowhere turned bad that's the flawed part, i honestly never expected what happened in the end, based on the first missions to me he was whole-heartedly good.. in the end i kinda see him as a tragic hero, trickster, oportunist or even the clown tho all of those have nothing to do with him not being an anti-hero..

the point is i see him from good to evil, good doesn't necessarily be a hero while evil is evil..

 

[Innsmouth]

Original Vergil can easily be classified as anti-hero, as his goal was from start to finish kill Mundus. DmC Vergil isn't anti-hero but rather anti-villain (somebody who does good things but for evil purposes). He was from the start interested only in personal gain. Anti-Hero doesnt necessary meant to be a good guy working for evil. Walter White was driven mostly by his greed and seek of thrills in his lives, as he admitted in the end, still anti-hero. Hannibal in Hannibal and Hannibal Rising because technically he's evil who seeks to deal with even bigger evil (likes of Mason Verger)

 

[LordOfDarkness]

@absolitude: No difference with DmC Vergil and DMC Vergil in terms of gaining what they want for themselves by using people. DmC Vergil uses Kat and Dante, and DMC Vergil uses Arkham.

@Keaton: They're not all too different from one another, really. In Vergil's Downfall, Vergil resents his angel side (much like DMC Vergil does with his human side). I thought on it some more, and I was always under the impression that he sought power because he needs it to protect the ones he loves. However, how does going against your brother - the only one aside from yourself that's still alive in your family - seem like a good idea? What has that got to do with protecting the ones you love? That's the opposite. I think I've always misunderstood his point. Vergil was probably referring to how his mother was too weak, being human and all, and that's why she died. He blames her for being 'just human', not strong enough to defend herself. He doesn't want his human form because of that, it's a weakness in his eyes.

 

[Innsmouth]

@LordOfDarkness thats technically incorrect. Vergil didn't find Arham to use him, instead Arkham found him for same purpose. You clearly saw none of them trusted each other and both were ready that another one dispose of him. DmC Vergil on the other hand, found Dante and Kat and used their problems to appeal to them only to try and dispose of both of them once they were in the way.

 

[WolfOD64]

"...and thus, my spirit thread was formed."

​

10. Grimmjow Jaegerjaquez

​

9. Al Simmons/Spawn

8. Heishiro Mitsurugi/"Mercenary of the Wartime Age"​

7. The Outlaw Josey Wales/" Mr. Chain-Blue Lightning" Himself

6. Rebecca "Revy" Two-Hands

5. D, the Wandering Dhampir Hunter

4. Lucian, King of the Lycans

3. Alucard, the "No-Life King"

2. Wolf O'Donnell, Leader of Star Wolf

1. ...if you DON'T know who this is, congratulations on being uncultured in the subject of badassery.​

 

[absolitude]

DmC vergil and DMC3 vergil has different plot..

DmC vergil wants revenge and to end mundus's rule in human realm, he needs help from dante to keep his existence remain covered, he acted thoroughly nice and good on those early missions.. his motives and character changed altoghether when he knew about mundus's spawn in lilith, there he's pure villain and tricked his way in to get his new purpose..

DMC3 vergil is consistent thru out the game, he wants power, he resents being weak, he needs jester's help to gain that power, as in "i don't undertand math, this jester guy knows, i need his help" jester is the trickster here, vergil don't care about anything else, he's focused for that power..
on that process, jester got stronger and vergil teamed up with dante, he does that for the same reason, he wants the power and he can't handle jester alone --i assume..

by those reason, i call DMC3 vergil the anti-hero based on my understanding, while DmC vergil is villain --if i see past thru what i consider flawed writings

2. Wolf O'Donnell, Leader of Star Wolf​

oh what a nice art

 

[Foxtrot94]

As I said before, I'm not into comics, sticking to games, books and movies instead. So you're not gonna see any comic book character here. Anyway, I'll pick one character for each of those media. In separate posts, cause it's so hard to understand sometimes if a character falls under the anti-hero category, I gotta give it some thought.

So, let's start with games.

- Iorveth (The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings)

"Sooner or later, humans will kill off all the Aen Seidhe, all dwarves and gnomes. Then they'll start murdering one another. Your kind knows no other way, it's in your genes. You'll keep killing each other until only one remains, the strongest among you. A thousand years from now, a dim-witted human barbarian will climb to the top of a pile of bones, sit down, and proclaim, "I win!"."

Often anti-heroes are tragic characters. Iorveth is no exception in that respect. His race is persecuted, and almost on the verge of extintion. Humans are the cause. He can't stand it. Elves believe they are a creation of the gods while humans are a species that's evolved from animals so to their eyes, humans are just slightly above beasts that strive for domination, murder and subjugation of all the other races. Humans invaded the land they inhabited, and claimed possession over it.

Iorveth is an extremely proud individual, as well as one of the most ancient of the Aen Seidhe, he's seen the death and destruction humans have brought to his species with his own eye. He's grown to despise humans, he hates them with a passion. And he made his goal in life to restore the once great Aen Seidhe species. But only war will make it possible, since to him, humans only understand violence and death, so he's willing to give them those.

Yet, under that armor of determination and will force, he knows the truth, he sees it, despite only having one eye. His race is doomed. He deeply cares for his people, suffers in seeing them burned at the stake, executed, hunted down in the woods that were once theirs like animals. He decided to react, to pursue an exhausting and continuous war for the freedom and dignification of his race, but very deeply inside, he doesn't fail to realize it's for naught. He's not deluded. But he wants to be. He wants to believe he's got a chance, that his goal is achievable. This is why he's ready to give everything, his armies, his life, to realize the dream of a truly free independent non-human State under the guide of the idealist Saskia, the only chance he's got, and probably ever will.

And that quote above? Well. Despite his methods being ruthless and borderline terroristic, you can't but agree with him on what he says. To his eyes, mankind's destiny is as tragic as his people's, with the difference that in the end, at least one human will remain, while all elves and the other species will be gone forever.

 

[absolitude]

As I said before, I'm not into comics, sticking to games, books and movies instead. So you're not gonna see any comic book character here. Anyway, I'll pick one character for each of those media. In separate posts, cause it's so hard to understand sometimes if a character falls under the anti-hero category, I gotta give it some thought.

So, let's start with games.

- Iorveth (The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings)

"Sooner or later, humans will kill off all the Aen Seidhe, all dwarves and gnomes. Then they'll start murdering one another. Your kind knows no other way, it's in your genes. You'll keep killing each other until only one remains, the strongest among you. A thousand years from now, a dim-witted human barbarian will climb to the top of a pile of bones, sit down, and proclaim, "I win!"."

Often anti-heroes are tragic characters. Iorveth is no exception in that respect. His race is persecuted, and almost on the verge of extintion. Humans are the cause. He can't stand it. Elves believe they are a creation of the gods while humans are a species that's evolved from animals so to their eyes, humans are just slightly above beasts that strive for domination, murder and subjugation of all the other races. Humans invaded the land they inhabited, and claimed possession over it.

Iorveth is an extremely proud individual, as well as one of the most ancient of the Aen Seidhe, he's seen the death and destruction humans have brought to his species with his own eye. He's grown to despise humans, he hates them with a passion. And he made his goal in life to restore the once great Aen Seidhe species. But only war will make it possible, since to him, humans only understand violence and death, so he's willing to give them those.

Yet, under that armor of determination and will force, he knows the truth, he sees it, despite only having one eye. His race is doomed. He deeply cares for his people, suffers in seeing them burned at the stake, executed, hunted down in the woods that were once theirs like animals. He decided to react, to pursue an exhausting and continuous war for the freedom and dignification of his race, but very deeply inside, he doesn't fail to realize it's for naught. He's not deluded. But he wants to be. He wants to believe he's got a chance, that his goal is achievable. This is why he's ready to give everything, his armies, his life, to realize the dream of a truly free independent non-human State under the guide of the idealist Saskia, the only chance he's got, and probably ever will.

And that quote above? Well. Despite his methods being ruthless and borderline terroristic, you can't but agree with him on what he says. To his eyes, mankind's destiny is as tragic as his people's, with the difference that in the end, at least one human will remain, while all elves and the other species will be gone forever.

gee, i completely forgot about iorveth.. been using him as wallpapers for so many times

 

[Lain]

Well, like I said, he starts going kill crazy. I mean, I don't think anyone walks away from Death Note thinking Light's a good guy. He's really not.

Picking up that Death Note was the worst thing that could have ever happened to him because I imagine he would have had a bright future as a detective, possibly working alongside someone like L as peers instead of enemies. But that power pretty much corrupted him, and he has a very warped sense of justice.

Which is why I say it's arguable really.

Indeed, Light Yagami doesn't qualify for Anti-Hero. In fact you're spot on with the whole "picking up the Death Note was a bad thing" since I remember an interview with the author saying that the Death Note warps a person's fate and so Light was the first victim of the DN.

L and Near on the other hand do qualify as Anti-Heroes as despite occasionally breaking the law to apprehend the various Kira's, they are firmly on the side of good.

 

[Innsmouth]

Anti-Hero doesnt meant to be on good sides. He can be on both sides. Hense I think Light can be classified as anti-hero. Though I think Light can be classified anti-hero shoe transformed into anti-villain. He does something for righteous cause, but by the end he's mentally psychopath with god complex. I think closest to anti-hero was Near in DN. Unlike L he didn't really cared for methods he used and sacrifices he made, yet he attempted to withhold justice.

 

[AgentRedgrave]

Not too hard, since most of my favorite heroes are anti-heros.....What? They're a lot more interesting. No particular order

1. Wolverine (Marvel)
   
2. Batman (DC)
   
3. Red Hood (DC)
   
4. Deadpool (Marvel
   
5. Dante (Devil May Cry)
   
6. Alucard (Hellsing)
7. Blade (Marvel)
   
8. Dean Winchester (Supernatural)
   
9. Gabriel Belmont (Lords of Shaodw)
   
10. Guts (Berserk)
    
11. Spawn (McFarlane)
    
12. Hellboy (DarkHorse)
13. EDIT* Raiden (Metal Gear Rising)

Also I agree, Vergil's no anti-hero. I'd classify him as an anti-villain. Since he does some bad things, but not really out of evil intent, but to achieve his goals, and cares nothing for the consequences, to anyone but himself.

 

[Lain]

and wow.. didn't expect anti-hero could be this confusing.. lol

It's because the term "Anti-Hero" isn't as cut and dry as other literary terms like Protagonist and Antagonist. Not to mention the fact that it changed over time, but I already covered that in my earlier post.

@Innsmouth, I don't understand what you're trying to say. An Anti-Hero cannot be evil as that would make them a villain, not a hero. Any notion of Light Yagami being "Heroic" was thrown out the window when he used the Death Note to kill an innocent man to test out his power in the first chapter.

 

[AgentRedgrave]

Anti-Hero doesnt meant to be on good sides.

Ahh, yes it does, hence they're still called a hero.

 

[absolitude]

you know guys, i'm confused, XDDDD.. that feeling when what you believe for so long turns out isn't what you think it is and you want to keep on believing it is still as what you believe.. i need to spend some time in the corner..

to add, is sidney losstarot and nuada made the anti-hero category?

 

[Demi-fiend]

 

[absolitude]

that's a good watch, and i'm still having a hard time telling which one is which

 

[LordOfDarkness]

@absolitude: What you're saying is DmC Vergil and DMC Vergil both have different goals. That's not necessarily true. You can see the similarities between both of them if you look at what they do. Okay, there are some differences, but they do ultimately do/want the same thing. DMC Vergil just seemed to use the excuse of it being "within his right" because of his father and who he was. DmC Vergil thinks it's in his right because he thinks humans are too weak and need protecting, which relates back to DMC Vergil's quote of "Power = ability to protect loved ones, and yourself". So all of these kind of similarities make them the same character still, ultimately. They both want Mundus to be out of the picture so they can put themselves in his position, as that would make them feel "at the top" in terms of power.

Anyway, enough about that. I think we've dragged that subject along for long enough now. And to keep to the point of this thread, I'll add someone I'd class as an antihero, and that would be The Crow.

 

[Lain]

Oh yeah, I forgot to add in a couple of my own.

From manga/anime I'd say Hei (Darker than Black), Arsene Lupin III(Lupin III) and Kiritsugu Emiya (Fate/Zero)

From video games I have Max Payne (Max Payne), Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy VIII) and Yuri Lowell (Tales of Vesperia).

 

[absolitude]

The Crow.

the things i forgot..