your fave anti-hero

[Innsmouth]

@Blackquill and @AgentRedgrave Actually its other way around. Anti-hero is somebody NOT on the good side. He's either neutral like Spawn or evil like Hannibal. Anti-hero is not hero with questionable methods. Hense likes of Batman in most of his appearances can't be called antiheroes. Look for yourself. Hannibal is technically villain yet he becomes anti-hero. Walter White actions in rarely anything but evil yet he is anti-hero as well. Anti-Hero may be evil.
Generally Anti-Hero definition has pretty bright spectrum. Here it is: http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/anti-hero
According to it, characters who are morally good, can't be called anti-heroes. Thats why, neither L nor Batman, not anybody with higher principles and good goals can be defined as ones.

 

[AgentRedgrave]

@Blackquill and @AgentRedgrave Actually its other way around. Anti-hero is somebody NOT on the good side. He's either neutral like Spawn or evil like Hannibal. Anti-hero is not hero with questionable methods. Hense likes of Batman in most of his appearances can't be called antiheroes. Look for yourself. Hannibal is technically villain yet he becomes anti-hero. Walter White actions in rarely anything but evil yet he is anti-hero as well. Anti-Hero may be evil.
Generally Anti-Hero definition has pretty bright spectrum. Here it is: http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/anti-hero
According to it, characters who are morally good, can't be called anti-heroes. Thats why, neither L nor Batman, not anybody with higher principles and good goals can be defined as ones.

And yet, Batman's the page picture on TV tropes http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiHero.
While Batman is a hero, no doubt. His methods, using fear, and his willingness to borderline torture someone into giving him info, gets him the classification.
And Hannibal was only a anti-hero in Hannibal Rising, other then that, he is a villain.
There are many forms of anti-hero, but the point is. A villain, can not be an anti-hero.

EDIT: When the heck was it ever said that original Vergil intended to kill Mundus?

 

[Innsmouth]

And yet, Batman's the page picture on TV tropes http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiHero.
While Batman is a hero, no doubt. His methods, using fear, and his willingness to borderline torture someone into giving him info, gets him the classification.
And Hannibal was only a anti-hero in Hannibal Rising, other then that, he is a villain.
There are many forms of anti-hero, but the point is. A villain, can not be an anti-hero.

Hannibal was anti-hero in both HR AND Hannibal. Walter White example still stands. Batman fits into Anti-Hero only due to his Frank Miller episodes and likes of them. His codex not to kill completely removes him from this stereotype. See for yourself: Deadpool is villain, yet anti-hero. Hannibal is villain, yet anti-hero(btw partially it was a pliable to TV as well). Walter White is villain yet anti hero. Alex from CO is anti hero as well, densite being obvious villain. Basically Anti-Hero is somebody who does something good for not heroic purposes. No matter if he villain or hero, or something in between. Anti-villain is somebody who does something evil for good purposes or his convictions.

 

[AgentRedgrave]

Hannibal was anti-hero in both HR AND Hannibal. Walter White example still stands. Batman fits into Anti-Hero only due to his Frank Miller episodes and likes of them. His codex not to kill completely removes him from this stereotype. See for yourself: Deadpool is villain, yet anti-hero. Hannibal is villain, yet anti-hero(btw partially it was a pliable to TV as well). Walter White is villain yet anti hero. Alex from CO is anti hero as well, densite being obvious villain. Basically Anti-Hero is somebody who does something good for not heroic purposes. No matter if he villain or hero, or something in between. Anti-villain is somebody who does something evil for good purposes or his convictions.

*Buzzer sound*Well I have no idea what CO is, and I've personally never seen Breaking Bad, but from what I know, Walter White was a guy who got cancer and took up drug dealing to make money for his family for when he was gone, and became progressively more ruthless as the series continued. I'd classify that as an anti-villain.
"Batman fits into Anti-Hero only due to his Frank Miller episodes and likes of them." Which is pretty much how Batman is protrayed nowadays, so that point still stands.
Actually no, Deadpool isn't a villain. He's a mercenary, add his insanity into the mix, the character's more a "chaotic neutral"

Again I ask, when the heck was it said Vergil (original) had the goal of killing Mundus? Cause I don't remember ever hearing that.

 

[Foxtrot94]

when the heck was it said Vergil (original) had the goal of killing Mundus?

He only ever did when he got beaten by Dante. To prove himself he's like his father. But that's it. Unless there's something about it in some DMC manga, which I haven't read.

 

[AgentRedgrave]

He only ever did when he got beaten by Dante. To prove himself he's like his father. But that's it. Unless there's something about it in some DMC manga, which I haven't read.

Yeah then, but when was it ever said killing Mundus was his original goal as Innsmouth has stated?

EDIT: Sorry Foxy, I think I misread your comment, my bad.

 

[Lain]

We all need to stop arguing about the definition on anti-hero, since there is no concrete definition. We should just define anti-heroes how we choose to.
I don't consider Vergil to be an anti-hero, but some people do. And that's fine. He is an anti-hero in their minds.

Well there is...but people just use the term far too loosely these days.

 

[AgentRedgrave]

We all need to stop arguing about the definition on anti-hero, since there is no concrete definition. We should just define anti-heroes how we choose to.

I don't consider Vergil to be an anti-hero, but some people do. And that's fine. He is an anti-hero in their minds.

It's not quite that there's no definition. But there are many levels. Some anti-heroes are just heroes who do morally questionable actions for the greater good, sometimes it's their own self gain (really depends on how far they take it that keeps them from being a villain)
Traditionally, an anti-hero is any heroic character that doesn't match the ideal hero.
Spider-Man is actually an example of this form of anti-hero. As he was a dorky teenage nerd when he first started, and very unsure of himself.

 

[absolitude]

now i'm wondering why vergil wants power.. gonna look up the forum

 

[AgentRedgrave]

now i'm wondering why vergil wants power.. gonna look up the forum

From my understanding, it's his way of compensating for failing to protect his mother. His dialogue to Dante in DMC3 at-least alludes to this or something similar "Without strength you cannot protect anything".
I've also heard people say they feel that Vergil wants power because he believes his mother died because she was weak.
Personally I favor the former

 

[absolitude]

From my understanding, it's his way of compensating for failing to protect his mother. His dialogue to Dante in DMC3 at-least alludes to this or something similar "Without strength you cannot protect anything".
I've also heard people say they feel that Vergil wants power because he believes his mother died because she was weak.
Personally I favor the former

yeah but mom died already, so what'll he do with all those power if he attain em? who or what does he want to protect if protect is the keyword here..

all i can think of with it being uncertain is that he's a power-complex character, he might challenge any strong being he could find to prove he's the strongest.. he might just be doing that in hell.. not that it's a bad thing, i like the sound to that, especially if he ended up as a tragic character, getting beaten twice by his brother..

but his purpose, if it's to protect, he has good intention

 

[AgentRedgrave]

yeah but mom died already,

As I said, compensation. Not being able to save his mom made him feel weak, so that's why he wants power, he never wants to be that again.

 

[absolitude]

As I said, compensation. Not being able to save him mom made him feel weak, so that's why he wants power, he never wants to be that again.

oh, i see i see.. when you think about it, in the end that makes him a tragic character.. felt weak, wants power, beaten be the brother.. the tragic part justifies more why i liked both vergil..

well if the sole purpose is wanting power to compensate, i could agree he's not an antihero..

 

[WolfOD64]

Ahh, yes it does, hence they're still called a hero.

Traditionally-speaking, an anti-hero isn't necessarily a hero by default. The term refers to an individual that rejects heroic tendencies out of their placid, self-serving nature, or because they find the notion of heroism to be a fictitious or impractical one. In other words, they'll walk the lines of both hero and villain, graying the borders of both to better cater to their personality. Spawn's a good example, since he unintentionally performs a number of heroic actions, but through harsh and often borderline-villainous means.

But they don't have to be a hero in every case. Hellsing's Alucard is an example of a villain who's bound to the leash of "good" forces against his will, and while he displays a number of sadistic and villainous tendencies, gradually reveals his more humane and noble characteristics through brief character exploration.

Anti-heroes can play at being either heroes or villains, but what makes them compelling and endlessly-entertaining is their potential to offer an interesting alternative to both.

I've also heard people say they feel that Vergil wants power because he believes his mother died because she was weak.
Personally I favor the former

Given the rest of his personality, and his absolute and undying contempt for all things weaker than him---especially humans---I don't see how the former theory makes even remote sense to his character.

If you consider how he acts and the traits he displays throughout the actual game (and before anyone leaps forwards with the paper-thin defense of the manga's contradiction to his game portrayal, bear in mind that it was made well after DMC3's release and by a completely different author, meaning that Vergil's so-called "guilt rooted from Eva's death" was never even an inkling in Bingo Morihashi's mind when he was writing the scenarios OR the script for DMC3), then the second theory is the only one true to his character.

You'll have to excuse me if I don't buy the fictitious allusions some fans have made surrounding a certain quote Vergil makes in a laughable attempt to justify his otherwise-merciless behavior.

oh what a nice art

I found it on a Japanese art sight called pixiv. You'll find that Japan stands as the greatest provider of Star Fox fan art nowadays, probably because most of the North American Star Fox fan contributions tend to be bad furry art and straight-up yiff instead of anything remotely cool.

 

[AgentRedgrave]

Given the rest of his personality, and his absolute and undying contempt for all things weaker than him---especially humans---I don't see how the former theory makes even remote sense to his character.

If you consider how he acts and the traits he displays throughout the actual game (and before anyone leaps forwards with the paper-thin defense of the manga's contradiction to his game portrayal, bear in mind that it was made well after DMC3's release and by a completely different author, meaning that Vergil's so-called "guilt rooted from Eva's death" was never even an inkling in Bingo Morihashi's mind when he was writing the scenarios OR the script for DMC3), then the second theory is the only one true to his character.

You'll have to excuse me if I don't buy the fictitious allusions some fans have made surrounding a certain quote Vergil makes in a laughable attempt to justify his otherwise-merciless behavior.

It's the correct theory according to Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3, which was also made by Capcom.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

I'm with @tehrugger on this one. I think we should move on from trying to find the definition for anti-hero.

 

[Gel]

now i'm wondering why vergil wants power.. gonna look up the forum

Eva's death as the main reason for Vergil's thirsty for power is more urban legend than anything. The only time it was said OFFICIALLY why Vergil wanted power is here( a profile extracted from DMC3 manga).

 

[Foxtrot94]

@absolitude @AgentRedgrave @Gel
This is really going off topic now. Besides, we already had a thread dedicated to that subject (more than one actually). AND IT DID NOT END WELL. Let's try not to doom absolitude's thread to that fate as well.

 

[Lain]

Seeing Gel's avatar reminded me of one more Anti-Hero I want to add...

Barok van Zieks "The Reaper of Old Bailey"

Spoiler

 

[absolitude]

Eva's death as the main reason for Vergil's thirsty for power is more urban legend than anything. The only time it was said OFFICIALLY why Vergil wanted power is here( a profile extracted from DMC3 manga).

self-loathing? wow, never saw that coming, love this guy.. and selfish sure is him..

on topic