Why the Yamato is the way it is in DmC

[Kam]

Ugh, really man. It doesn't have to be this way. But you should really learn to take your own advice, because you come off exactly the way you're criticizing me for coming of, preachy. You're the one accusing me of somehow plugging videos as if theres some ulterior motive, besides me trying to prove my point around DmC in a DmC fan board/website. So, don't get on me about being preachy. If you followed your own advice many of these things would have already been resolved months ago, but old fans like yourself can't seem to help yourselves, and just keep bringing up old threads. Like the one for Brea is doing DmC which was just a subtle hate thread of some player making fun of DmC. Hell, I could do something similar for DMC4, but I"m not a child, and secondly it would be a huge waste of time. Like I said, It's not worth it. I just honestly don't take some people seriously anymore, and I'm sad to say you're now among those people. Goodbye.

let me spell it out for you in a simple way:

we're discussing vergil's animations. To supposedly further this discussion, you post your own combo video where you it's actually very difficult to see any of his animations, let alone any of the mentioned examples, and then you say "see? his animations are fine". You will find any excuse at all to shamelessly post your own videos. The video you linked was not related to this discussion at all, yet you're linking it anyway.

And now, when called out, you act self righteous. We're talking about vergil's animations and how they look compared to the others. Post on topic videos, or don't post them. But don't make your need for attention out to be my fault.

 

[OppressedWriter]

let me spell it out for you in a simple way:

we're discussing vergil's animations. To supposedly further this discussion, you post your own combo video where you it's actually very difficult to see any of his animations, let alone any of the mentioned examples, and then you say "see? his animations are fine". You will find any excuse at all to shamelessly post your own videos. The video you linked was not related to this discussion at all, yet you're linking it anyway.

And now, when called out, you act self righteous. We're talking about vergil's animations and how they look compared to the others. Post on topic videos, or don't post them. But don't make your need for attention out to be my fault.

I'm the person who created this thread. I don't see how its off topic, does the thread specifically state its about DmC Vergil's animations. I thought we were discussing the yamato and why Vergil in DmC has it the way he has it. I think my arguments and videos proved that. If you think that I was the first person to post "supposedly off topic videos" you should look at your own inner circle. Now, look, stop passive aggressively attacking me and just ignore me, I'll do the same to you as well.

Say it with me, "let it go, it's not worth it."

 

[Kam]

I'm the person who created this thread. I don't see how its off topic, does the thread specifically state its about DmC Vergil's animations. I thought we were discussing the yamato and why Vergil in DmC has it the way he has it. I think my arguments and videos proved that. If you think that I was the first person to post "supposedly off topic videos" you should look at your own inner circle. Now, look, stop passive aggressively attacking me and just ignore me, I'll do the same to you as well.

Say it with me, "let it go, it's not worth it."

How have your videos furthered the discussion on vergil's animations (or his sword's appearance) at all? A combo video is a terrible way to examine a character's animations because none of them last for the full animation before being canceled. The screen is cluttered with enemies and particle effects, the camera is panning all over the place, and you think this was the most appropriate video for a discussion on the details of vergil's animations?

You didn't post it because it was the most appropriate video you could find, you posted it because it was your video. A relevant video would be a side by side comparison of each of their attacks (the ones they share) or maybe two individual videos showing each of the characters in turn (and I already provided one of them).

Post one of those. Or make it, if you insist on whoring your own channel's view count

 

[OppressedWriter]

How have your videos furthered the discussion on vergil's animations (or his sword's appearance) at all? A combo video is a terrible way to examine a character's animations because none of them last for the full animation before being canceled. The screen is cluttered with enemies and particle effects, the camera is panning all over the place, and you think this was the most appropriate video for a discussion on the details of vergil's animations?

You didn't post it because it was the most appropriate video you could find, you posted it because it was your video. A relevant video would be a side by side comparison of each of their attacks (the ones they share) or maybe two individual videos showing each of the characters in turn (and I already provided one of them).

Post one of those. Or make it, if you insist on whoring your own channel's view count

You mean something like this, the video in my original post.

You would be smart to just stop before you make yourself look any worse.

One thing though, where does this thread specifically state its only about how Yamato's design relates to Vergil's animations? (Hint: you won't find it, because its not there).
Could it also be that because Vergil is super fast and likes to take care of his opponents efficiently that's why his Yamato is smaller and slightly out of the scabbard. It fits with his need to dispatch enemies quickly. So wouldn't me showcasing him destroying enemies rapidly therefore be on topic?

Also, remind me again, who came and made you the person that decides what the real topic of a thread is?


Out of condescending responses, thought so. It's like the mustang discussion all over again.

 

[Kam]

Again, where does this thread specifically state its simply about how Yamato's design and how it relates to Vergil's animations? (Hint: it doesn't).
Could it also be that because Vergil is super fast and likes to take care of his opponents efficiently that's why his yamato is smaller and slightly out of the scabbard. It fits with his need to dispatch enemies quickly. So wouldn't me showcasing him destroying enemies rapidly therefore be on topic? And remind me again, who came and made you the person that decides what the real topic of a thread is?

But, keep it up. I've told you to let it go. You would be smart to just stop before you make yourself look any worse.

This is one of the videos, the video I posted in my original post.

I see why relinking this video wasn't your first idea after I overlooked it, because it's demonstrating everything I claimed in my first post on the topic. Awkward swings, wonky ballerina twirls, and that godawful helmbreaker animation. The "meteor slam" you mentioned does not make it look any better.

 

[OppressedWriter]

I see why relinking this video wasn't your first idea after I overlooked it, because it's demonstrating everything I claimed in my first post on the topic. Awkward swings, wonky ballerina twirls, and that godawful helmbreaker animation. The "meteor slam" you mentioned does not make it look any better.

Keep on trolling. Nice to see the entourage. Yeah good job overlooking the main post of the thread. Really paying attention there to detail aren't ya. . Dude, stop derailing my thread further with your nonsense. I think you've shown your true colors well enough. Have fun being seen only by the people who like your passive aggressive posts.

 

[MultiBro]

Keep on trolling. Nice to see the entourage.

Disagreement=Trolling?

Yeah no.

 

[OppressedWriter]

Disagreement=Trolling?

Yeah no.

Yeah you said it.

 

[MultiBro]

Yeah you said it.

 

[Kam]

Keep on trolling. Nice to see the entourage. Yeah good job overlooking the main post of the thread. Really paying attention there to detail aren't ya. . Dude, stop derailing my thread further with your nonsense. I think you've shown your true colors well enough. Have fun being seen only by the people who like your passive aggressive posts.

so instead of responding to me, you're going to accuse me of being a troll and disregard everything I've said?

 

[Terrutas]

so instead of responding to me, you're going to accuse me of being a troll and disregard everything I've said?

It's easier than a constructive response, ya know.

stop derailing my thread further with your nonsense.

Oh my, is Alchemist back?

 

[CheeseKao]

so instead of responding to me, you're going to accuse me of being a troll and disregard everything I've said?

Says the guy who put words into my mouth.

 

[Kam]

Says the guy who put words into my mouth.

I....what? Do I even know you?

 

[CheeseKao]

I....what? Do I even know you?

"You're gonna need more than just Amazon to validate your statement." - Me

"luckily for you I provided amazon, capcom, famitsu, and a uk retailer.
How about you? You're going to need more than just zero sources to validate your contradicting statement." - You

I never said that you were wrong nor said that you were right. You saying that I was trying to contradict your statement is putting words into my mouth.

http://devilmaycry.org/community/threads/dmc-sales-solid.15749/page-6

 

[OppressedWriter]

Omg, its so vastly different. One's like a ballerina and other is pure class and elegance. When it comes to size variations, it's all a matter of perspective. If I knew this would have been such an insane issue for a few posters, who decided to attack me because I didn't cave into their demands to provide proof immediately.

Now everyone bow down to Vergil. He is your new demon lord master.

Edit. Just see posts below for pictures. Nice spam tactic guys.

 

[Dark Drakan]

Think people are starting to venture more into the off topic e-penis measuring territory rather than actually speaking about the topic at hand in a mature manner. Not really any need to start picking apart each others posts in an off topic manner in order to simply try & make someone look inferior to you. Heres a crazy idea... How about stick to the topic & have a mature debate instead... you know like adults...?

It's easier than a constructive response, ya know.



Oh my, is Alchemist back?

There is no need to wade in just to derail the topic further & continue to send the thread down a negative route as neither of these posts were constructive responses either.

 

[MultiBro]

Omg, its so vastly different. One's like a ballerina and other is pure class and elegance. When it comes to size variations, it's all a matter of perspective. If I knew this would have been such an insane issue for a few posters, who decided to attack me because I didn't cave into their demands to provide proof immediately.

Now everyone bow down to Vergil. He is your new demon lord master.

That's just one move, a single slash animation. Does that prove your point? No, it doesn't.

 

[Kam]

"You're gonna need more than just Amazon to validate your statement." - Me

"luckily for you I provided amazon, capcom, famitsu, and a uk retailer.
How about you? You're going to need more than just zero sources to validate your contradicting statement." - You

I never said that you were wrong nor said that you were right. You saying that I was trying to contradict your statement is putting words into my mouth.

http://devilmaycry.org/community/threads/dmc-sales-solid.15749/page-6

that was over a month ago, are you still holding a grudge over that?

[yamato combo A, yamato combo A, yamato combo A... IT'S ALL THE SAME!]

If you're going to post screenshots, post the ones of the moves I called into question, instead of a single similar move 4 times. Here, like this:

Here's vergil's animation immediately following the damage portion of his rapidslash attack

you know what it's called when a stagger causes your knee to touch the ground? A lose condition. On the right, vergil ends on his feet, the force of his horizontal slash leaving his sword oriented horizontally. On the left, vergil must catch himself on his knee, and the force of his horizontal swing leaves his sword pointed toward the sky, meaning his slash was wild and most of the force was carried sideways, instead of behind the edge of the blade. It's something you'd see an amateur do, because it looks cool.

Next, there's helmbreaker. Actually, before we do that, let's do a different comparison. Since classic vergil's helmbreaker is a two-handed strike and reboot vergil uses a single hand, it's not really fair to compare them directly, so let's find the closest substitute.

Here's a downward chop from both of them while gripping something else behind them in their off hand. To the left, it looks like vergil's sword is the only thing keeping him from losing his balance. His downward swing ends with him nearly straight legged and just off of his toes. His swing carries no weight because he's barely rooted to the ground; you could gently nudge him onto his face from this position. He's not in a position to deliver any kind of power to any strikes.


But let's compare their helmbreaker animations anyway

Feet firmly planted, sword hilt directly below both shoulders, this is the proper leverage to pack some power into your swing.

All hail the reboot vergil, demon lord? How about we give him a chance to finish his OK cupid photo shoot before we start judging him

 

[OppressedWriter]

So, hey, try to stay on topic, please, we're discussing Yamato animations, remember, why you bringin' Force Edge into this? Just kidding, I"m not as anal as you. So I'll answer.

Helmbreaker​

But, anyhoo, Yeah, like I thought Kam and Multibro don't know what they're talking about, do these guys actually play DMC3 or any DMC games? Because Helmbreaker is not a Yamato move, it is a Force Edge move, hence the double handed Helmbreaker.

In case you didn't understand the part above, read the following lines carefully, Vergil never strikes with the Yamato using two hands, Vergil never slams the ground helmbreaker style with the Yamato in DMC3, and I bet if he did, he would do it very similarly to how he does in DmC. Because the Yamato is a precision weapon, it is light and sharp, and a powerhouse like Vergil don't need no stinkin' two hands to hold such a blade.

So, keeping consistent with the notion that the power of the Yamato comes from speed and velocity. I don't understand why the equivalent downward power attack in DmC, drive + stomp attack fails to impress you. I believe that it not only feels more impactful, it actually is more impactful in the gameplay, because Vergil creates a shockwave that damages enemies in a radius around the point of impact, and he does it with ONE HAND.

Also, speaking on design terms, the way the move fits thematically into the notion that the Yamato is a speed and velocity weapon is also impressive. Let me break it down so you might understand what I mean, the move is executed in two parts, Drive (the meteor like fireball), and the actual stomp, which increases in power based on the height the player. See the naming and execution, you drive up (rev up) the velocity and speed to destroy the ground with a weapon that shouldn't be able to do this. The implication being that Vergil is so fast and so powerful that he can take a weapon like the Yamato and create an impact that can match the force of a Gilgamesh or Eryx Stomp. Isn't that awesome? Do you not admire this, the thought that went into making the movesets feel perfectly natural for each character without sacrificing variety? Every move Vergil has feels like a move Vergil should have. They really showed Vergil some love, and if you truly loved Vergil in DMC3, you'll be crying tears of joy when you play with him in DmC.

Rapid Slashes​

Now, lets move on to your harping about rapid slashes longer animation, this just further proves you make claims without actually playing the games you're arguing against. See, there's a reason Rapid slash is a longer attack, in DmC unlike DMC3 rapid slash can be cancelled into any other attack seamlessly - try doing this in DMC3.The player is supposed to chain it into whatever other move they want: upperslash, perfect slice, solar flare, atomic, Trick up, Trick down, you name it, hell, you can just do another rapid slash into a rapid slash in DmC. Can you do that in DMC3? Don't answer that. You can't.

Also, I'd like to add, that in DmC Vergil has yet to attain his full power, technically in the narrative Vergil is injured and it showcased in the players animations while playing. Still despite his weakened state he is a incredible force to be reckoned with, which just further highlights how with time he will become even more efficient and deadly, this is called character development. It doesn't simply have to be through plot. The characters abilities subtly increasing in efficiency over the course of the DmC saga is something worth appreciating instead of nitpicking for some pointless grudge, which is what it honestly feels like at this point. No amount of ugly blurry pictures googled since you don't actually play the games you argue for so passionately is going to convince any rational person otherwise. The only people high fiving you are the regular crowd that I know hate this game. That's not conjecture and you know it.

So, in the end, the truth is that DmC does Vergil right, and enriches the myth and lore of the Yamato, and makes it feel like an essential primary weapon that is as important as its counterpart Rebellion.

 

[Kam]

snip

"I can end the animation early" is not a valid response to to "the animation looks bad"

Here, let's run your logic through the reversal test; I'm going to reverse all the terms in both of our statements, and let's see if you still think this logic is valid:
[all of vergil's yamato animations look orgasmically good]
You: vergil's animations look great!
Me: no they don't because you can cancel them before they get to the good part, he has no good animations

Either this logic works, or it doesn't; you can't have it work only for you and then not for me. While you think carefully about if you really want to continue with that as your primary defense, I'm going to continue.

if yamato isn't a weapon suited for helm-breaker, they shouldn't have given it to vergil. But they did. So despite your 8 paragraph persuasive paper on why it's not fair to compare "helm breaker" against "helm breaker", I'm going to do it anyway.

Oh hey, it looks awful. Once again, there is absolutely no reason vergil couldn't swing his weapon with two hands, and it definitely doesn't excuse his horrible posture. He looks like he's going to tip over at the end of nearly every attack, and considering these are the same animations he uses when you fight him at the end of the game, "he's wounded in the DLC" sort of falls flat as a defense.

Yamato is indeed a fast and precise weapon, which is why I find vergil's wildly imprecise swings and ballerina twirls to be so nauseating to look at. Spinning in place with your sword held out is pretty much the exact opposite of "fast and precise". When I think of vergil, I don't think of someone who has to take a knee after every wild swing because he can't control his own sword, but you'd have me believe this is an improvement over the original.

So, in the end, the truth is that DmC does Vergil wrong. It adds nothing to the myth and lore of the Yamato, and makes it feel like a short, flimsy rebellion clone, put into the hands of someone who is neither fast nor precise.