Why should Vergil NOT come back? Read FIRST post before responding

[moseslmpg]

It would defeat the purpose of the thread, so I will post in the other thread. And remember I am only talking about how Vergil could come back to the series, not trying to fit him into the post-Nero timeline necessarily. Also keep in mind that I only need to give one hypothetical scenario that doesn't have Vergil coming back as some cheap, or flawed cardboard cutout to render all complaints related to that invalid. (Because I just have to prove there is a way, not that Capcom will do it).

Chloe, I'm sure your ideas are mot down to earth and whatnot. You seem to have a lot of them and they seem to be good to me. What I lack in variety I make up for in opaque esotericism

I'll go post something I guess.

[post=267663]Posted[/post]. Let me know if this is satisfactory, those who say nay to a return.

 

[Meg]

Ok. I think I came up with something that fits the guidelines. Vergil is a mysterious character, yes? Well questions about Nero and his arm can still be answered without him coming back. Part of the reason Sparda is so darn cool is that we know so little about him. Yet what we do know is revealed by the characters that are connected to him.

I don't know if that fits, but I don't think anyone's mentioned that yet, so I figured it was worth bringing it up.

 

[moseslmpg]

But Nero is more mysterious than Vergil. If I'm reading your response correctly, would the logic be that Nero shouldn't come back?

I don't think I understand the response. Is it like "Vergil shouldn't come back because he doesn't need to come back?" Because that is tautological, since no characters need to come back.

Edit: Also Vergil could come back for reasons not related to Nero.

 

[Meg]

Yeah, but Vergil is gone and Nero was just introduced, so to get rid of him without reason would be silly. Vergil "died" and has been absent since. So that's where I'm making my point.

And seeing where things seem to be headed, Vergil not having something to do with Nero at all seems really unlikely.

 

[moseslmpg]

But that isn't a reason that Vergil shouldn't come back. He's only been gone for one game anyway, it isn't like he is some really old character like Enzo from DMC1.

And yeah, I think that it is very unlikely Vergil won't be involved with Nero.

 

[Meg]

I figured and agree actually. But brainstorming is how you come up with stuff. So since no one has posted anything lately I'd thought I'd throw that out there as a possibility. Maybe someone will get inspired. I think Vergil should come back in some form (but not as his DMC3 self), but I can see both sides of the argument.

 

[Vampi]

Not surprising that no one could give a straight answer on why shouldn't Vergil return. Guess hating him is more easier than actually realizing the potential (emphasis on Potential) he has as a character. Rather we're stuck with Dante whose just blatant fanservice from now on and Nero whose origin has more holes in it then swiss cheese.

 

[Darth Angelo]

Not surprising that no one could give a straight answer on why shouldn't Vergil return. Guess hating him is more easier than actually realizing the potential (emphasis on Potential) he has as a character. Rather we're stuck with Dante whose just blatant fanservice from now on and Nero whose origin has more holes in it then swiss cheese.

Well I aimed my accusation at the wrong person but I knew somebody would say it lol.

This has nothing to to with hating Vergil (at least not on my part) what? just because we don't think it's a good idea to bring him back suddenly we want to stone him to death?
Where in this thread did anybody say that Vergil shouldn't come back because he sucks? I think he was one of the coolest villains I have ever seen I just accepted his post DMC3 fate, let go and moved on.

 

[Vampi]

But how can you move on when the most recent game whose main character and supporting character reference Vergil so much without saying his name out loud can be ignored and is vital to the origin of the new character demonic power and heritage?

You just can't ignore that. I know that there are sum people who don't give a damn about the story of DMC and just about the gameplay, or even people who don't like the story but just go with the flow with whatever crap Capcom throws in and just accept it. But you have to realize, there's a big hole without having Vergil not be in the next game.

He's pretty much the chain that links everything together besides Sparda and Eva and such. With Dante we'll finally know if he truly died or not and see if he learned his lesson in the events at the end of DMC 3. And with Nero we'll see if he's actually Nero's dad or whatever connection Capcom spins.

I don't know why people just accept just DMC 3 and DMC 1 as the conclusion to his story. Vergil is a very complex character with alot of potential that can be very beneficial to the DMC universe along with the characters he interacts with. Gameplay-wise its not that hard to come up with a new fighting system for him. Besides, DMC fighting system is getting a bit old compared to Bayo's new flexible fighting mechanics.

Its like everyone accepts whatever Capcom lays out in front of them, plotholes and all, without asking important questions in how to expand and give the DMC games more depth. I guess sum fans just don't care anymore and accept whatever terrible idea Kobayashi brings up in his stupid head.

 

[moseslmpg]

I agree with your second post, Vampi. Although, I am not surprised that a rational argument has not been brought up either. I'm not even sure if there is one, which is why I made the thread.

I think some of the aversion to Vergil coming back is due to the way people treat fictional canon, as if it is real somehow. I prefer to focus on its potentiality rather than being locked into non-necessary events at the expense of enriching that fictional world.

So, DA, while you may have accepted the fate for Vergil that has hm never returning, do you at least acknowledge that such a fate need not be accepted necessarily and that you yourself are a co-author of that fate? This is why I didn't want reasons like "Vergil's story is over" because that is only true if you already accept it as a truth, making it essentially a tautology.

Hopefully that makes sense. It is hard to talk about meta-fiction and whatnot, and my English writing skills have been lacking ever since going to study abroad. Alas.

 

[Richtofen]

Hmmm, this is a toughy for sure. This thread kinda contradicts itself within its own question. But that's what makes it harder to come up with more logical answers or arguments other than "He's dead". Moses pointed out at the beginning of this thread that he takes that as an invalid answer.

But what if you were to cut out all the fictional crap, all the manga's and animes made between the DMC series? You'd be left focusing on the games. You've seen Vergil fight Mundus, and when you play the original DMC you knew he'd lost the fight. When Nero resurrects Yamato you see a specter of a devil looming behind him, and Nero mentions a voice echoing within the walls of his mind. Because of this, there isn't a reason why Vergil SHOULDN'T come back, but raises the question how much will he influence the motivation to explain Nero's possession of Sparda's blood. (IF there is any relation at all between the two...who knows with Capcom these days...)

 

[Vampi]

Hmmm, this is a toughy for sure. This thread kinda contradicts itself within its own question. But that's what makes it harder to come up with more logical answers or arguments other than "He's dead". Moses pointed out at the beginning of this thread that he takes that as an invalid answer.

But what if you were to cut out all the fictional crap, all the manga's and animes made between the DMC series? You'd be left focusing on the games. You've seen Vergil fight Mundus, and when you play the original DMC you knew he'd lost the fight. When Nero resurrects Yamato you see a specter of a devil looming behind him, and Nero mentions a voice echoing within the walls of his mind. Because of this, there isn't a reason why Vergil SHOULDN'T come back, but raises the question how much will he influence the motivation to explain Nero's possession of Sparda's blood. (IF there is any relation at all between the two...who knows with Capcom these days...)

Hmm...you make alot of good points. And you were within guidelines. Good post.

 

[UZUDAE]

Re: Why should Vergil NOT come back?

Okay, before I reply can I just say this (and no offense before I do so)-

This is a FORUM, we are not writing college papers in here, so please stop asking people to come up with an MLA formatted, source cited response. It is their opinion, therefore it is subjective. There is no factual reason why Vergil should, or should not, be in the new game.

Having said that, I see potential to introduce him in this new DMC, as there is a possibility to justify his existence, not just have him appear for the sake of appearing. Perhaps we could see a sideplot in DmC explaining exactly WHERE his thirst for power came from. See him transform from Dante's loving brother into a power monger, and see their relationship turn sour.

 

[moseslmpg]

Re: Why should Vergil NOT come back?

Okay, before I reply can I just say this (and no offense before I do so)-

This is a FORUM, we are not writing college papers in here, so please stop asking people to come up with an MLA formatted, source cited response. It is their opinion, therefore it is subjective. There is no factual reason why Vergil should, or should not, be in the new game.

Uh no offense, but this is a FORUM, where people have DISCUSSIONS which are VOLUNTARY. If you don't like the premises of a thread, then don't post in it, especially with hyperbolic and tautological drivel as you have done here.

On the other hand, thank you for answering the question despite your indignation at being forced to reply with a 10,000 word, MLA formatted doctoral dissertation. Your PhD diploma is in the mail.

Edit: BTW, we already know why Vergil has a power fetish. It is because he failed to save his mother from being killed by demons. It is similar to why Batman wears a batsuit and punches badguys.

 

[UZUDAE]

Re: Why should Vergil NOT come back?

Uh no offense, but this is a FORUM, where people have DISCUSSIONS which are VOLUNTARY. If you don't like the premises of a thread, then don't post in it, especially with hyperbolic and tautological drivel as you have done here.

On the other hand, thank you for answering the question despite your indignation at being forced to reply with a 10,000 word, MLA formatted doctoral dissertation. Your PhD diploma is in the mail.

Edit: BTW, we already know why Vergil has a power fetish. It is because he failed to save his mother from being killed by demons. It is similar to why Batman wears a batsuit and punches badguys.

Alright, I can see you're a bit...TOUCHY, to say the least. All I pointed out was that the first post of the thread was a rhetorical question. I didn't flame anybody, or bash it, just pointed out the truth. There's no answer to the question "prove that Vergil shouldn't come back?" and you know it. That's like saying "prove god exists" to a Christian.

Also...I'm fully aware that's why Vergil thirsts for power, what I was saying is they could SHOW his fall from grace, something DMC hasn't ever done. And nice big words...never heard somebody use a tongue twister like "hyperbolic and tautological."

Apologies if I offended you, I guess

 

[Zurg]

I'm on both sides with this. But Vergil shouldn't come back because this is about Dante, not Vergil. Sure Vergil is a big part of Dante's life and that would be the only logical explanation to put him in the game. But I still think the game should focus 100% (give or take a few) about Dante.

 

[moseslmpg]

Re: Why should Vergil NOT come back?

Alright, I can see you're a bit...TOUCHY, to say the least. All I pointed out was that the first post of the thread was a rhetorical question. I didn't flame anybody, or bash it, just pointed out the truth. There's no answer to the question "prove that Vergil shouldn't come back?" and you know it. That's like saying "prove god exists" to a Christian.

Also...I'm fully aware that's why Vergil thirsts for power, what I was saying is they could SHOW his fall from grace, something DMC hasn't ever done. And nice big words...never heard somebody use a tongue twister like "hyperbolic and tautological."

Apologies if I offended you, I guess

On the contrary, you are the one who seems touchy about having to answer within guidelines, like just about every person who has posted in this thread. I'm not offended, but I am exasperated with the same tired complaints to a valid question.

The premise of the thread is not rhetorical. It is a genuine question. If you believe there is no answer to it, then that is your answer. And no, it isn't like asking someone to prove god exists. It is like asking someone for a logical argument for the exclusion of a character from a fictional series, as opposed to their "feelings" about why he should not come back.

Yes, I realize that even this logical argument would be "subjective" (although the distinction is superfluous since by one estimation all things are subjective). I also realize that I use words that people don't use in everyday speech, but thanks for pointing out that irrelevant fact for the 100th time.

In any case, your response is noted. There is no reason within the guidelines that Vergil should not come back.

I'm on both sides with this. But Vergil shouldn't come back because this is about Dante, not Vergil. Sure Vergil is a big part of Dante's life and that would be the only logical explanation to put him in the game. But I still think the game should focus 100% (give or take a few) about Dante.

I don't believe that is within the guidelines. The only reason people think DMC is about Dante is that, until now, DMC has been about Dante. It is circular reasoning and invalid. If Vergil had been the main character of DMC1, then DMC would be Vergil. Really, the only plot element that is necessary for DMC is Sparda, although the twins are both an integral part of the existing story.

 

[Meg]

Oh dear, there seems to be some drama spewing. Can you both just chill out a bit? No need to get so upset over this. UZUDAE, moses asked a question and set guidelines in place because he wanted certain types of answers. If you can't think of something to say in response then that's ok. Neither of you had to get so heated about it.

 

[moseslmpg]

I'm chill. I'm kind of bored, and I'm just responding in kind anyway.

 

[Meg]

Okies then. I just didn't want a mod to see it and yell at you guys is all.