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Why should Vergil NOT come back? Read FIRST post before responding

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moseslmpg

Well-known Member
Alright, I made this thread to separate it from the "How to bring Vergil back" thread, so we don't take it off topic again.

READ THIS BEFORE POSTING

Again, my question is for all the naysayers out there: Why is it that Vergil should not come back in the series? By this, I mean what are the "necessary" reasons he should not ever come back?

This means, I don't want tautological responses like "he just shouldn't" or "his story has been told." Do not use excuses like "he's dead" either. The question is why shouldn't he come back, not why can't he come back.

Preferably, offer your responses in a concise format, like a list, and include an actual explanation of each point. And try not to argue. I just want to know as a ind of survey.

READ THIS

Bonus Question: Given that Dante embodies and exemplifies many, if not all, of the issues that make people think Vergil should not come back, should he be allowed to come back? Why or why not? (Do not say because "Dante is DMC" because he isn't, and DMC4 proves that).
 

DreadnoughtDT

God of Hyperdeath
Premium
Supporter 2014
Re: Why should Vergil NOT come back?

My most major reason is this: Kobayashi will RUIN Vergil. Vergil was always portrayed as an epic badass who doesn't care who he cuts down as long as he gets power, not as a father-figure. He's not meant for fathering, he was never meant for that. He was only used as a villain/antagonist.

My second reason is extremely minor and people are gonna flame me for this. I just know it. I. Don't. Like. Vergil. He screams "I'm supposed to be badass but it's been done so many times it doesn't matter." to me.
 

moseslmpg

Well-known Member
Re: Why should Vergil NOT come back?

Sorry. Alright, I recognize those complaints, but the first one is accidental, not necessary. My question is assuming a totally competent producer, director, developer, story, etc.

For instance, if your only complaint is that Koba will ruin it, that's only a reason why Koba shouldn't force Vergil back into the series. But that doesn't preclude him coming back with another producer, or in his own side-series, etc.

As for your second reason, it isn't really relevant. That's why you don't want him back, not why he shouldn't come back. I don't much like Nero or the new Dante, but that's personal preference.
 

DreadnoughtDT

God of Hyperdeath
Premium
Supporter 2014
Re: Why should Vergil NOT come back?

Okay, assuming a totally competent crew, the question is this.

How the heck is he gonna come back with a GOOD reason? Not "he wants Yamato back" or "he's going to possess Nero" or "He's going to kill Dante" because those are predictable.
 

moseslmpg

Well-known Member
Re: Why should Vergil NOT come back?

But the fact that you can't think of a good reason, doesn't mean that there isn't one.

You can say definitely that there are no good reasons for him to come back, but you would have to support that claim with something.

And as far as reasons for doing things in DMC goes, Capcom can always conjure up something. Nothing in DMC4 or DMC2 had a reason to take place, but it did.
 

Vergil'sBitch

I am Nero's Mom & Obsessed fan girl
Premium
Re: Why should Vergil NOT come back?

The DMC4 Novel? Is that a good enough reason?
If that clap-trap hadn't been written, I may have been a bit more enthusiastic...

Plus he's supposed to be dead...
 

DreadnoughtDT

God of Hyperdeath
Premium
Supporter 2014
Re: Why should Vergil NOT come back?

I guess it's one of those "wait and see" type things. Although if Vergil is playable, you can bet your ass I'm gonna play as him. I dislike his character, but I love playing as him.

@VB: He said you weren't supposed to say any if that "he's already dead" stuff. >_<
 

moseslmpg

Well-known Member
Re: Why should Vergil NOT come back?

Vergil'sB*tch;266605 said:
The DMC4 Novel? Is that a good enough reason?
If that clap-trap hadn't been written, I may have been a bit more enthusiastic...

Plus he's supposed to be dead...
Read the first post. Seriously.
 

Vergil'sBitch

I am Nero's Mom & Obsessed fan girl
Premium
Re: Why should Vergil NOT come back?

Its tough... its my opinion. Moses dosesn't like it, he can take it up with me personally. I don't care if i'm flame because THAT is my opinion
 

Meg

Well-known Member
Moderator
Re: Why should Vergil NOT come back?

My main reason for not wanting Vergil to come back is because he'll hold everything up. The story as shifted to being about Nero. keep it there for the next game, then go back to Dante. In my mind there is no way Vergil can come back without holding everything else up.
 

moseslmpg

Well-known Member
Re: Why should Vergil NOT come back?

Vergil'sB*tch;266609 said:
Its tough... its my opinion. Moses dosesn't like it, he can take it up with me personally. I don't care if i'm flame because THAT is my opinion
You aren't even responding to the question. I could hardly care less of your opinion, but if you're not going to try to answer the question why bother posting? I made this thread to separate the wheat (reasons) from the chaff (opinions), if you will.

Meg: Like I said, it doesn't have to be in the next game. It could be a few games down the line or a gaiden even. So that isn't a real reason.

I want to know why Vergil should never come back, if all other things were perfect.

If anyone wants, they can answer the bonus question that I asked in the other thread: Given that Dante is guilty of many of the things that preclude Vergil from coming back, should he come back and why or why not?
 

Vergil'sBitch

I am Nero's Mom & Obsessed fan girl
Premium
Re: Why should Vergil NOT come back?

I've answered your question.
DEVIL MAY CRY 4 NOVEL

I'd be more than happy to see his return if the book had never been written.

Why don't you give us your reason?
 

Angel

Is not rat, is hamster
Admin
Moderator
Re: Why should Vergil NOT come back?

Clarify something for me, if you will. When you say "if all other things were perfect", what precisely would that entail? Just so I can get some sort of comprehension going here.
 

moseslmpg

Well-known Member
Re: Why should Vergil NOT come back?

That isn't a reason Vergil shouldn't return at all. To solve your problem, all you have to do is consider the Novel not canonical.

And Vergil not returning wouldn't really mean that the stuff in the novel didn't happen anyway. If anything, the novel is a reason for him to come back to clear up what actually did happen.

My question is about Vergil, not other games and media. What is it about Vergil himself that make people think he should never return?

I don't have a reason because I think Vergil should definitely return, but that's not for this thread. I'm just trying to see what are the most common and strongest arguments for him not coming back.
 

Meg

Well-known Member
Moderator
Re: Why should Vergil NOT come back?

moseslmpg;266617 said:
Meg: Like I said, it doesn't have to be in the next game. It could be a few games down the line or a gaiden even. So that isn't a real reason.

That IS my reason. I want the story to focus on Nero and Dante for the rest of the series. There isn't enough to Vergil other than being Dante's brother to make it worth him coming back. Yamato needs to stay dead. Little metonymy for ya there.
 

DreadnoughtDT

God of Hyperdeath
Premium
Supporter 2014
Re: Why should Vergil NOT come back?

Vergil'sB*tch;266631 said:
what reason WOULD be good enough for you?

I was about to say the same thing. You seem to have very high standards.
 

moseslmpg

Well-known Member
Re: Why should Vergil NOT come back?

Angel;266621 said:
Clarify something for me, if you will. When you say "if all other things were perfect", what precisely would that entail? Just so I can get some sort of comprehension going here.
Basically, I just want to focus on Vergil himself rather than the competence of Capcom. This means, if Vergil were to come back, the story would be able to justify it, his character would not be ruined by Kobayashi, he would have enough weapons, moves, etc.

I'm more interested in what it is about Vergil or the DMC series itself that indicates he shouldn't ever come back. Hopefully that makes sense.

Meg: That falls under the "his story has already been told" injunction. Your reason is tautological and contradictory even. To wit: We don't know how much more of Vergil there is until he is in another story that explains that. And, to say that you want the series to be about only Dante and Nero from now on seems to imply that there is something specific about Vergil that Dante and Nero do not share, that makes him obsolete, even though he has been in the fewest games.

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EDIT: I don't know what reason would be good enough for me, which is why I'm asking. But a good start would be sticking to the guidelines in the first post. Anything outside of those guidelines is just fluff IMO, excuses for lack of imagination or inane favoritism. I have yet to hear a reason that has convinced me that Vergil shouldn't come back, but maybe I will in this thread.

OK, I'll use an "example" for Dante: The reason why Dante should not come back, hypothetically, is that his character has stagnated after 4 games and he shows little to no development and acts more like a caricature than a character. He has also had ample time for his story to be told, through 4 games, and barring a change in his story or character, he shouldn't return and just let Nero have the series. (I don't really think Dante should leave btw, this is just an example, which of course doesn't work for Vergil since he has only had 1 game).
 

Meg

Well-known Member
Moderator
Re: Why should Vergil NOT come back?

moseslmpg;266636 said:
Anything outside of those guidelines is just fluff IMO, excuses for lack of imagination or inane favoritism.

Are you kidding?

Well Mr. Moses, here's the thing. We have told you our reasons to why Vergil shouldn't come back. Its not our fault that they aren't good enough for you. You want reasons to why it isn't possible for him to come back yet saying "he's dead" isn't good enough. In my mind that's tautological and contradictory. What better logical reason to why someone can't come back than the person died. Soooo :p
 

Angel

Is not rat, is hamster
Admin
Moderator
Re: Why should Vergil NOT come back?

Is Vergil a proper character in his own right or is he just a bonus character for DMC3? Isn't it just a Vergil "skin", for want of a better word, and you simply play Dante's role but as Vergil with different clothes, hair and moves?
 
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