TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
Yeah, let's not forget that Kamiya wasn't responsible for anything that DMC is popular for these days.
Was The Reboot Really Necessary?
- Thread starter Railazel
- Start date
WolfOD64
That Guy Who Hates Fox McCloud
Exactly. People hail Hideki Kamiya as the only supposed Lord and Savior of the Devil May Cry franchise, when in fact he made the most primitive game in the series. DMC didn't start being a true hack-n'-slash game until DMC3, which is why the third game is so immensely popular and universally-loved by the fanbase (not by me, at any stretch, but that's besides the point). Itsuno has stuck with the series, and helped make 2, 3, 4, and even supervised elements of DmC.
Just becase Kamiya made Bayonetta doesn't mean he'll sprinkle fairy dust on the DMC series and return it to its former glory. DMC and Bayonetta are wildly different games...and if one starts acting like the other, it won't be DMC anymore.
Innsmouth
Sleeping DMC Fan
Most former clover group are in P* games. So it makes much more sense to me to give them DMC than to NT, who are still giving me impression, that they didn't really care about DMC at all.
ROCKMAN X
Keyser Söze
From Capcom's point of view it makes sense,they made DMC 4 more catering towards newcomers by introducing new hero and new theme hoping to gain more popularity but that instantly backfired as the game was rushed and didn't sell as much as DMC 3.
So they went back to the drawing board and said "Well fu*k it! Ninja theory stop working on DMC 5 and just reboot the darn thing and make it more appealing to western gamers!"
then E3 2010 trailer came... and you know what happened next,all in all DmC is just another failed attempt to make DMC a platinum hit like DMC 3... sadly its not gonna happen because there are so many other games DMC has to compete with in this generation.
So they went back to the drawing board and said "Well fu*k it! Ninja theory stop working on DMC 5 and just reboot the darn thing and make it more appealing to western gamers!"
then E3 2010 trailer came... and you know what happened next,all in all DmC is just another failed attempt to make DMC a platinum hit like DMC 3... sadly its not gonna happen because there are so many other games DMC has to compete with in this generation.
Innsmouth
Sleeping DMC Fan
Many still consider DMC1 as one of the best in series. As for didn't done any other popular games....well he made Okami, Viewtifull Joe, Bayonetta, directed one of the best RE games, so sorry, but his record is far more impressive than Ninja Theory's. + Platinum games doesn't consists of Kamiya alone. And unlike most other studios they really all about gameplay not just pretty cutscenes.
ToCool74
"Fair" DmC Skeptic
So this kind of thread eh?
Well I won't be here for long and will return to my lurking after this but I felt the need to give my opinion on it.
Was it necessary?
Hell no.
Like some others have pointed out in the thread this was just Capcom's "preemptive strike" so to speak to try to keep the series from failing in the long run.
Despite the good sales DMC4 had (which is still currently the highest out of the series) it was loathed by many fans and Capcom obviously took notice of this.
So instead they decided to take the easy route and press the reboot button.
What was truly needed and necessary (in my opinion) was them to bring some new and fresh inovation to the gameplay formula which should not be much of a problem since they had been doing a good job with the series in that respect, but laziness as well as rushing the game development obviously took a hold on DMC4 and created some gameplay faults such as the main one being needless backtracking and pretty much rehashing nero's part of the game into Dante's making his part of the game feel so uninspiring and not original.
Slow and steady is the name of the game here and sadly Capcom was not interested in this route with DMC4 which is why I think it suffered more than it should have.
Secondly they would have had to get their **** together and start to give a damn about the actual story and series itself enough to TRY to make a coherent story out of the mess they have created.
Sure it would have took some doing and maybe even retconing of certain events but it could have been done with some effort.
DmC while not a bad game by any means just was not the answer for the series in my opinion, what the answer should have been was Capcom getting their heads out of their @ssess and finally starting to give a d@mn about the series enough to give it the time and care it so desperately needed at the time.
Well I won't be here for long and will return to my lurking after this but I felt the need to give my opinion on it.
Was it necessary?
Hell no.
Like some others have pointed out in the thread this was just Capcom's "preemptive strike" so to speak to try to keep the series from failing in the long run.
Despite the good sales DMC4 had (which is still currently the highest out of the series) it was loathed by many fans and Capcom obviously took notice of this.
So instead they decided to take the easy route and press the reboot button.
What was truly needed and necessary (in my opinion) was them to bring some new and fresh inovation to the gameplay formula which should not be much of a problem since they had been doing a good job with the series in that respect, but laziness as well as rushing the game development obviously took a hold on DMC4 and created some gameplay faults such as the main one being needless backtracking and pretty much rehashing nero's part of the game into Dante's making his part of the game feel so uninspiring and not original.
Slow and steady is the name of the game here and sadly Capcom was not interested in this route with DMC4 which is why I think it suffered more than it should have.
Secondly they would have had to get their **** together and start to give a damn about the actual story and series itself enough to TRY to make a coherent story out of the mess they have created.
Sure it would have took some doing and maybe even retconing of certain events but it could have been done with some effort.
DmC while not a bad game by any means just was not the answer for the series in my opinion, what the answer should have been was Capcom getting their heads out of their @ssess and finally starting to give a d@mn about the series enough to give it the time and care it so desperately needed at the time.
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
This thread.
This.
F***ing.
Thread.
I was being sarcastic, in case you didn't know.
This.
F***ing.
Thread.
He's still our lord and savior, bro. Show some respect.
I was being sarcastic, in case you didn't know.
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LoneRangerNinjutsu
The Man Without Fear!
I do feel like DmC was a bit of a knee jerk reaction to how fans received DMC4.
DMC4 as a game, for me, is a solid action adventure that's inadequate when compared to the rest of the series. All Capcom needed to do was work harder and listen to all the complaints of players who didn't enjoy DMC4 and then make the best possible Devil May Cry 5. Hell, considering all the stuff that fans have written concerning the narrative, Capcom hardly even needed to write their own proper story; the fans have practically done that for them. Combat in DMC4 was as solid as it was ever going to be, and you have a new character (Nero) to flesh out and better fit into the DMC universe.
There was and STILL IS a ton of potential for a sequel to Devil May Cry 4. It could explain Nero's origin, make him a likable character, expand his role in combat, create a new story arch for Dante and possible bridge the gap between Devil May Cry 4 where he's happy and joyful and is then suddenly bitter and silent in Devil May Cry 2. You could even try to innovate and go against franchise norms, maybe making the game partially open world, or giving the player tons of side missions, or creating a more story centric entry into the series. Also, give us the ability to choose between Nero or Dante for each mission and you have a recipe for success and possibly the best Devil May Cry yet.
With all these possibilities for a sequel to the fourth entry, it makes DmC seems more and more unnecessary in my eyes.
DMC4 as a game, for me, is a solid action adventure that's inadequate when compared to the rest of the series. All Capcom needed to do was work harder and listen to all the complaints of players who didn't enjoy DMC4 and then make the best possible Devil May Cry 5. Hell, considering all the stuff that fans have written concerning the narrative, Capcom hardly even needed to write their own proper story; the fans have practically done that for them. Combat in DMC4 was as solid as it was ever going to be, and you have a new character (Nero) to flesh out and better fit into the DMC universe.
There was and STILL IS a ton of potential for a sequel to Devil May Cry 4. It could explain Nero's origin, make him a likable character, expand his role in combat, create a new story arch for Dante and possible bridge the gap between Devil May Cry 4 where he's happy and joyful and is then suddenly bitter and silent in Devil May Cry 2. You could even try to innovate and go against franchise norms, maybe making the game partially open world, or giving the player tons of side missions, or creating a more story centric entry into the series. Also, give us the ability to choose between Nero or Dante for each mission and you have a recipe for success and possibly the best Devil May Cry yet.
With all these possibilities for a sequel to the fourth entry, it makes DmC seems more and more unnecessary in my eyes.
DragonMaster2010
Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
DmC WAS their "out of the norm".
And if they did that to the series, people would complain that "THATS NOT DEVIL MAY CRY" or something like that.
LoneRangerNinjutsu
The Man Without Fear!
Not necessarily. You can do something "out of the norm" without entirely recreating your continuity. It feels like that Capcom was running out of ideas and decided to start fresh to remove the pressure for having to create a bigger and better experience, so they hired a competent western studio and gave them a checklist of what they need to do.
Also, I doubt anyone would cry out against some new things in the original franchise. As long as you still have crazy combat, cool action hero Dante, and stay consistent in story telling with the other games, I think they could get away wit a lot. As I said before, how cool would it be to have a city hub where you could get jobs at Dante's shop, Devil May Cry, and go on side missions to hunt down demons in the area? That's just one idea that could rock the Devil May Cry gameplay. It's new, fresh, and staying within series canon.
Trust me, I understand where you're coming from, and I shared your thoughts exactly, but I thought that maybe people aren't as unwilling to change as I originally thought. Look at how many people lightened up to DmC. Hell, I liked DmC, even though I thought it was both flawed and unnecessary. You guys aren't a minority anymore. Through solid arguing and conversation, you've converted a lot of old school DMC fans to appreciate Ninja Theory's effort. I think it would be even easier to convert people to new ideas if you only changed minor things, and didn't try to fix what wasn't broken.
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
This is literally what DmC was.
LoneRangerNinjutsu
The Man Without Fear!
As I've said multiple times now, what I say applies to the original series, and not DmC. I wanted a story centric DMC that would attempt to fix the issues of the original franchise, and we instead got a total reboot which gives us absolutely no closure on the characters we all knew and loved from the classic series.
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WolfOD64
That Guy Who Hates Fox McCloud
Taneem Antionades didn't care about DMC. Most people jumped onboard NT's dev team to work on the reboot because they were fans of DMC. ****, the guy who wrote and contributed to Vergil's Downfall was a fan of the original Vergil from DMC3. Why is it that because ONE person on the Dev Team expressed dislike for the Original Dante and Universe that the ENTIRE Team is labeled as "DMC Haters"? Seriously.
EllDawn
Well-known Member
The problem with trying to go back and fix what was wrong in earlier games is that's all the game would have been. An attempt to backtrack and repair. There comes a time when there are so many problems with a series that it's better to just start from scratch than to fix what's all ready there.
LoneRangerNinjutsu
The Man Without Fear!
I disagree. Look at X-Men: Days of Future Past. It's an enjoyable romp that had the heavy task of fixing the entire X-Men universe in one movie that is just a little over two hours long. A video game has the luxury of being longer than that and being able to flesh out things in different ways and fashions, and the burden of continuity doesn't weigh as heavy on DMC as it did on poor old X-Men. You wouldn't have to do much fixing. Just make the best possible Devil May Cry and address continuity here and there throughout the adventure.
When you start from scratch, it just feels sort of lazy, doesn't it? Especially if you can make something grand in the process of applying all of those band-aids to the series, like X-Men: Days of Future Past.
WolfOD64
That Guy Who Hates Fox McCloud
Yes, as do I. In fact, it's my favorite game in the series next to DMC4 and DmC (both of which are wrapped in a personal and close tie). But while DMC1 was a great game for its time, there are A LOT of elements that haven't aged well and would not hold up in a modern DMC game. For one, the camera and controls really could use some fine tuning, and a lot of its puzzle and exploration elements boiled down to "Have Dante hit place THIS object into THIS hole to enter THIS room." And don't even get me started on the Secret Missions. I think it was good when it came out, but as a modern sequel to DMC3, 4, and even DmC, it would fall pretty hard on its pretty face. Not to mention its simplistic and button-mashy combat really, really would shrivel and decay in the ominous shadow of modern rivals like Ninja Gaiden and God of War.
Well that comparison is almost unfair, if not a little absurd. Kamiya's been making games since the early 90's. He helped plan the original Resident Evil, directed Resident Evil 2, made Devil May Cry, Viewtful Joe, Okami, before making his own type of games in the form of Bayonetta and Wonderful 101.
Ninja Theory, on the other hand, made their first big game as an independent fledgling develeopment studio in the form of the PS3 sleeper hit Heavenly Sword, before making the equally underrated Enslaved: Odyssey to the West. That's what...two games? Developed in a span of two to three years? Cut them a bit of slack.
You're literally comparing a seasoned developer with more experience and knowledge in the field than a group of people whose biggest accomplishment was DmC, the game that withstood a thousand frothing haters. That's like comparing Alex Garland to Francis Ford Coppola....that kind of comparison is almost side-splittingly one-sided, it shouldn't even exist.
LoneRangerNinjutsu
The Man Without Fear!
Comparisons aren't really valid anyway, and prove to be irrelevant. Capcom didn't want another Hideki Kamiya to make DmC, they wanted a western developer with a fresh perspective that would make something different and more original that wholly separate to the original franchise.
WolfOD64
That Guy Who Hates Fox McCloud
I just recently saw Days of the Future Past, and I can safely say that it wasn't a band-aid on a tumor...it was full-on plastic surgery. Bryan Singer pulled out all the stops to essentially usher in a new era of X-Men, by dismissing every canon element of prior films to be non-canon. He rewrote the plot, changed the initial relationships between characters, even altered their roles in the story. That kind of retooling to the minimalistic and laughably-inconsistent DMC plot wouldn't be surgery...it would be hacking the patient open with a chain-saw until there was nothing left. The DMC canon is so convoluted and confusing because of how many different people have been given charge of the series from Kamiya's Team Little Devils, to Itsuno's Team for 2 and Dante's Awakening, and a new writer and director for 4.
Capcom's idea for DmC was probably to have ONE team of people write the story for the game, and stay on to make the story of future sequels. Doing this would ensure consistency and a fluent canon for the series to live off of. I don't see how DMC5 can be the Future Past with all the inconsistent plot elements in 1-3, and the absolute swandive of random-ass plot holes in DMC5. A Future Past band-aid would not fix that...not in the slightest.
LoneRangerNinjutsu
The Man Without Fear!
Devil May Cry is convoluted, yes, but not entirely filled to the brim with inconsistencies as you say. If someone would compile a list of all things that fail explanation and defy the rules set in the original Devil May Cry series from the first game to the fourth, I'd gladly look through them and see if there is a small term way of fixing or explaining each of them within one gaming experience that doesn't hinder that game's specific plot or gameplay. Just a list of every plot hole you can think of, if you could. I'd appreciate it, because I think my bias renders me incapable of doing so.