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The Truth Around Lilith's Death *spoilers*

His demonic power is that of a shadow of himself for crying out loud, why not roll with the theme? Operating in the shadows, waging war from the shadows and all that.

And if he really, REALLY needed to use a gun... why not wear that mask he'd be wearing all that time?!
The main problem I can see with him using his doppleganger is what you see in the final fight. Using his demonic powers changes him physically, which would give him away. And a reason for him using the gun, as I noticed, is Dante had one of his guns aimed at Lilith in the first place. All Mundus saw was Lilith getting shot, and his heir being destroyed. Since it was obvious Dante was aiming a pistol at Lilith, it was easy for Vergil to kill her and Mundus to assume it was Dante that killed her. Vergil was free from discovery because Mundus focused on Dante even more afterward.
 
On a personal account, I never liked the Trade. Not because of that fact that Vergil was "out of character" but how randomly Lilith's death happened. It wasn't conclusionary neither was it particularly meaningful. Lilith just... died and all we get out of it is how much of a prick Vergil is.

This is, of course, ignoring the fact that players had just wasted time fighting the ugly little thing in an entire boss sequence and Vergil just ups and shoots it while it was weak. He also wasted the effort Dante put into showing Lilith mercy after all the struggle she forced him into.

Even more so, what was the point of shooting Lilith? Her womb just got shot, so I'm pretty sure she won't be able to have another baby. So... why?

Basically, that entire scene just wasted time. It would be better if stuff was revealed during that scene. Maybe if Mundus betrayed the deal, we could see just how cruel he is. For example, if he killed Lilith and the baby himself.
Mundus would never kill Lillith or his unborn child. What point is there to that? Mundus needs Lillith to bear his child because he would become the heir to his throne. The story is not hard to follow yet I find it hard to believe you people truly don't get it or something.

Dante was not going to kill Lillith because it was the best shot they had to get Kat back. Vergil shot Lillith and her death was totally necessary for his plan. Lillith and the kid were an obstacle to Vergil's personal goal. I see no reason to keep her alive anyway. She's a freaking disgusting demon who wouldn't give a f*ck about you. Kill her. She's a totally evil b!tch and no one is going to miss her.
 
I made this post in response to someone else's on tumblr, so I'll just copy/paste it if it's alright ^^.

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I’m glad somebody else noticed this. The response to Lilith death had some controversy, although details behind this can sometimes be misleading with some saying Dante heartlessly makes fun of Mundus about the incident, while disregarding certain key factors behind that scene.
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The fact of matter is, Dante never wanted Lilith and her unborn baby to die and was forced to mock Mundus about it an attempt to get him away from the Hellgate -which Vergil needed to shut down- after attempts to anger Mundus about doing it all for the freedom of mankind, failed. Meanwhile Vergil shooting Lilith was to prevent any heir getting in the way of his plans for ruling over the humans, since that was the only agenda he had in mind, becoming a ruler.
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Another thing to take into account was that Lilith never loved for her child truthfully. She used it as a ticket to power, even allowing her unborn baby to fight Dante so she could prove to Mundus she was worthy of being at his side [even quoting “I’m nothing without this brat”]. She’s not a sweet innocent mother with a sweet innocent baby, she was carrying the next omen, and both were nearly no better than the father. Her shock at realizing she’s been shot, isn’t out of a mother’s loss of her child, it’s out of loss for power. In her dying moments she realizes she is no longer useful to Mundus because his heir is dead and her plans have gone up in smoke.

If anything in fact, The Trade scene actually shows the vast difference between Dante and Vergil, in that:

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1. Dante was willing to spare Lilith and baby’s life in a fair trade. Even in the knowledge the baby might one day wind up becoming another Mundus down the line and with Phineas even telling him to kill them, Dante made the choice to let them live. This shows mercy in his character, the same mercy Dante showed to Trish back in DMC1, when he could’ve killed her, but didn’t.
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Him warning the other members of The Order to get out when they’re under attack; helping Kat reach Vergil when he’s in Limbo, to him going out of his way to rescue Kat proves he’s got a good heart on him, he’s learnt to care for others in his journey, that by the end, he’s not the selfish rebel he started out as when living in a trailer by the sea, he’s become Dante.

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2. For Vergil, that scene shows you how calculative and cold he really is. He wants to kill Mundus, take his place and rule over the humans. He doesn’t care at what cost that takes, if a small number die to save the masses. He wants power as a leader, and he’ll do anything to reach his goal.
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So he abandons the members of his Order when they’re under attack, he forces Kat to stay behind to gather his data with time that could’ve been used to help her escape. And then once again, he risks getting her killed when shooting Lilith, causing Mundus’s outburst, which in turn injured and possibly killed thousands of people in the city when a flux in the Hellgate caused entire city blocks to collapse.
If Vergil had let the trade go on peacefully as Dante had planned, likely nobody would’ve been killed, if he hadn’t been so determined with his goals, thousands could’ve been spared. Dante is not the merciless one, Vergil is. But this is no real surprise since after all, Vergil was a villain in previous games.
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One thing to remember though from Dante’s boss battle with the Mundus’s Spawn, is that it’s made clear the baby can hatch out of Lilith’s body at anytime. Even if Vergil had shot Lilith in the head on the first shot, that child might’ve still been alive and have broken out of her while she was dead. For Vergil, that was a risk to his plans he couldn’t take. But perhaps what would’ve been more menancing is if Vergil had shot Lilith through the stomach, and then left her to bleed to death. Him at least giving her a head shot afterwards showed he had some decency to put her out of misery rather than leave her suffer a long horrible death that she would’ve done if he hadn’t.
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It’s not like this issue hasn’t been brought up before or in other games. Heather in Silent Hill 3 takes a pill and vomits up a foetus from her mouth, mocks “Looks like god didn’t make it” and proceeds to step on it before Claudia stops her and swallows the foetus whole. It also revolves around the same theme as DmC with that of a character that will give birth to a god-like creature that may possibly be evil.

Fortunately in all these circumstances nobody was killed or injured…because it’s not real. I think that’s something we need to realize. These are video games we’re talking about. Nobody really got shot, no omen babies died. Yes there are some things you shouldn’t have in a game or even a film, but for me, I didn’t find Lilith’s scene disturbing, offensive or gory. in fact, Raiden ripping out a man’s heart and crushing it in his hands at the end of Metal Gear Rising I found more graphic than this.
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If this had been another character, say Kat or another female [human, demon or angel] that was pregnant and got shot, this probably would’ve been a problem, especially if this character had no impure intentions as Lilith did on rising to power and the baby didn’t grow up to be pure evil [which the game pretty much establishes by how eager he was to get out and kill Dante, so there’s a safe bet this kid would’ve grown up to be like his daddy.]
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And yet in spite of all that, of this baby being the child of the man that murdered his mother and locked away his father for endless torture and suffering, and being fully aware that another Mundus might rise to take the demon king’s place one day, Dante still showed both the unborn child and Lilith mercy, when most [like Vergil] didn’t wouldn’t have. He didn’t let revenge make him slay the lives of a mother and her baby, and that’s something to really think about.

So it begs to ask the question: Has the line between reality and the virtual world of storytelling begun to blur as graphics become more realistic and video games are no longer blocks of pixels…? Or are people just overreacting? Because I for one was not offended by any terminations of life in DmC or DMC4-
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Oh my god! NERO KILLED THAT DEMON’S UNBORN BABIES AND MOCKED HER! Quick, someone get Obama on the phone! Nero’s become like his father! We’re all gonna die! T____T

I think I’ve made my point @_@.
it is obviously that DmC Vergil is Nero's father. Father and his son shoot demon's spawns.
 
I am kind of curious as to why Mundus wanted an heir? wouldn't he be afraid of his own child growing up and disposing of him just to take over?

I mean the kid was not going to be raised with the best of morals so I wouldn't think that it would blink twice killing it's own parents when it came of age...just a thought
 
I am kind of curious as to why Mundus wanted an heir? wouldn't he be afraid of his own child growing up and disposing of him just to take over?

I mean the kid was not going to be raised with the best of morals so I wouldn't think that it would blink twice killing it's own parents when it came of age...just a thought
nah, when you're immortal i think you're good
 
I am kind of curious as to why Mundus wanted an heir? wouldn't he be afraid of his own child growing up and disposing of him just to take over?

I mean the kid was not going to be raised with the best of morals so I wouldn't think that it would blink twice killing it's own parents when it came of age...just a thought
I'd guess he'd want an heir in case he was killed. Sort of a back-up plan. With an heir to carry on his legacy he wouldn't have to worry about everything he built being lost.
 
I'd guess he'd want an heir in case he was killed. Sort of a back-up plan. With an heir to carry on his legacy he wouldn't have to worry about everything he built being lost.

it would be interesting to find out if he just wanted an heir for a backup body to take possession of if he did die.
 
it would be interesting to find out if he just wanted an heir for a backup body to take possession of if he did die.
Yeah. There's also the possibility that Lilith getting pregnant wasn't even something he had expected. Since only a nephilim can kill him, maybe he wasn't worried about his own spawn dethroning him, and decided his heir could be an equal to help keep everything under control.
 
Yeah. There's also the possibility that Lilith getting pregnant wasn't even something he had expected. Since only a nephilim can kill him, maybe he wasn't worried about his own spawn dethroning him, and decided his heir could be an equal to help keep everything under control.

Any demon child could have a nephilim baby by raping an Angel and then using it as a tool for it's own purpose (I know that sounded really creepy >_<).

I'm also starting to get the impression that Sparda and Eva may have Dante and Vergil out of necessity as well as love; but I tend to work up crack pot theories in my head lol.
 
Any demon child could have a nephilim baby by raping an Angel and then using it as a tool for it's own purpose (I know that sounded really creepy >_<).

I'm also starting to get the impression that Sparda and Eva may have Dante and Vergil out of necessity as well as love; but I tend to work up crack pot theories in my head lol.
Considering how Mundus is, I think he would have killed his own child if he had tried something like that. Besides, I also get the impression it was hard for Mundus to get Lilith pregnant in the first place. I doubt it would be so easy for any other demons. We don't even know how long Sparda and Eva were together before having Dante and Vergil.

lol. You're not the only one. I get to thinking and I get too many theories.
 
yeah but Dante and Vergil both proved that he was defeat-able so I don't think it would be too much of a stretch for his future son/daughter to rise up against him.
he was defeatable because of the destruction of the hellgate, which would PROBABLY make his heir mortal as well, what would mundus's kid do to **** him off? get bad grades in school?
 
he was defeatable because of the destruction of the hellgate, which would PROBABLY make his heir mortal as well, what would mundus's kid do to **** him off? get bad grades in school?
**** an angel, impregnate her and use the nephililm baby to take him out? I'm sure that might **** him off just a little bit....There are ways...

it was just a random thought I had anyway though, so it's not a big deal. :ermm:
 
Mundus would never kill Lillith or his unborn child. What point is there to that? Mundus needs Lillith to bear his child because he would become the heir to his throne.

Is Mundus unable to find another woman to bear his child? What makes Lilith so special? Why is the being who, according to Phineas, is unable to feel love so attached to one woman and her child? He is the Demon King, immortal, and owns the world's economy, I'm pretty sure he can bear as many children as he wants with as many women as he wants. So why is he so worried about losing one child? In fact, why did he need an heir in the first place? He's immortal (prior to losing the Hell Gate), so he can live for as long as he wishes. Was he so worried about his death that he needed a back- up plan? And if the child was just a back- up plan, why didn't he have more children in case that one dies? Was he too lazy? Did he not think to do that? Or did he feel that one was enough?

Vergil shot Lillith and her death was totally necessary for his plan. Lillith and the kid were an obstacle to Vergil's personal goal.

What kind of obstacle could they have posed exactly? Lilith poses no threat to anyone, obviously, and it would be years before the baby can be any kind of a threat to Vergil. Even more so, why is it necessary for Lilith to die? I could sort of understand the baby being a necessity but what about Lilith?

I see no reason to keep her alive anyway. She's a freaking disgusting demon who wouldn't give a f*ck about you. Kill her. She's a totally evil b!tch and no one is going to miss her.

Not really much of a reason to kill her either. To be fair, she and her child are possibly the most tragic characters outside of Eva. I mean, here's Lilith at the top of her throne then she's suddenly kidnapped by some punk, had her child die when it was barely ready to be... "born," and (to top it off) it turns out her lover barely gave a d@mn about her. And the child? It barely had a chance to "officially" live. It's an awfully sad story on their part.
 
Is Mundus unable to find another woman to bear his child? What makes Lilith so special? Why is the being who, according to Phineas, is unable to feel love so attached to one woman and her child? He is the Demon King, immortal, and owns the world's economy, I'm pretty sure he can bear as many children as he wants with as many women as he wants. So why is he so worried about losing one child? In fact, why did he need an heir in the first place? He's immortal (prior to losing the Hell Gate), so he can live for as long as he wishes. Was he so worried about his death that he needed a back- up plan? And if the child was just a back- up plan, why didn't he have more children in case that one dies? Was he too lazy? Did he not think to do that? Or did he feel that one was enough?



What kind of obstacle could they have posed exactly? Lilith poses no threat to anyone, obviously, and it would be years before the baby can be any kind of a threat to Vergil. Even more so, why is it necessary for Lilith to die? I could sort of understand the baby being a necessity but what about Lilith?



Not really much of a reason to kill her either. To be fair, she and her child are possibly the most tragic characters outside of Eva. I mean, here's Lilith at the top of her throne then she's suddenly kidnapped by some punk, had her child die when it was barely ready to be... "born," and (to top it off) it turns out her lover barely gave a d@mn about her. And the child? It barely had a chance to "officially" live. It's an awfully sad story on their part.
*facepalm* You are making some silly counter argument. Mundus probably could get another demon pregnant but I don't see why he would want to go through the trouble of doing so when he already has one on the way and wants a kid as quickly as possible.

Vegil killing Mundus's kid and Lillith p!ssed Mundus off and Vergil was also attacking the psychological aspect of with his fight with Mundus. And why not get rid of the demon who is next in line to the throne. After blowing a whole in her stomach just finish her.

More tragic than Eva? Eva was not even tragic ok. Considering you never really seen anything on her video game wise since DmC. I don't give a sh!t about a character who I know hardly anything about. Especially in something with such weak storytelling prowess as Devil May Cry. I wouldn't even give a sh!t if Dante died. In fact, I would commend the people for having the balls to kill such a major character. To make a ballsy move like that would be noteworthy.

There's no way I will get any feels over Devil May Cry. The only games out there I got feels over were pretty much only Red Dead Redemption, TellTale's The Walking Dead, and that visual novel game Katawa Shoujo. Final Fantasy 10's ending gave minor feels too just because it was rather depressing and was one of the only FF games I ever got really in to enough to actually give a sh!t about the characters.

You'd have to create a pretty compelling and engaging story to get me all emotional. Devil May Cry was never able to do this, NEVER. Last thing I will think is question whether or not it is ethical or not to kill a disgusting demon who would not only kill me without remorse but, is also going to give birth to the thing that will enslave the entire world in the future.

See how well the argument of feeling sorry for her would go when humans then fall under the zombie demon lobotomy. Would it all be worth it? Just because you don't like DmC don't start babbling illogical nonsense. These counters are very weak.
 
Is Mundus unable to find another woman to bear his child? What makes Lilith so special? Why is the being who, according to Phineas, is unable to feel love so attached to one woman and her child? He is the Demon King, immortal, and owns the world's economy, I'm pretty sure he can bear as many children as he wants with as many women as he wants. So why is he so worried about losing one child? In fact, why did he need an heir in the first place? He's immortal (prior to losing the Hell Gate), so he can live for as long as he wishes. Was he so worried about his death that he needed a back- up plan? And if the child was just a back- up plan, why didn't he have more children in case that one dies? Was he too lazy? Did he not think to do that? Or did he feel that one was enough?



What kind of obstacle could they have posed exactly? Lilith poses no threat to anyone, obviously, and it would be years before the baby can be any kind of a threat to Vergil. Even more so, why is it necessary for Lilith to die? I could sort of understand the baby being a necessity but what about Lilith?



Not really much of a reason to kill her either. To be fair, she and her child are possibly the most tragic characters outside of Eva. I mean, here's Lilith at the top of her throne then she's suddenly kidnapped by some punk, had her child die when it was barely ready to be... "born," and (to top it off) it turns out her lover barely gave a d@mn about her. And the child? It barely had a chance to "officially" live. It's an awfully sad story on their part.
As I said before, I don't think it's that easy for Mundus to get a woman pregnant. They mentioned, in the game, that he had multiple women. Lilith was the only one that was pregnant. If it's difficult for him to procreate, he'd want to hold onto the child he did get. And, since he does have a weakness and can still die, he's not truly immortal. Having offspring available to take over for him in case he died wouldn't be a bad idea. Also, a lot of men tend to think of having a son to carry on their name, legacy and whatever else might be important to them. It's another form of immortality.

The baby would have been a future problem. If Lilith and the baby had been allowed to live, she would have used the baby to kill Dante and Vergil later on. Besides, killing Mundus' heir was the best way for Vergil to put his plan in motion. He wouldn't have passed on that chance. As for Lilith's death, because she would have died slowly after being shot the first time, I'd say that was more of a mercy killing. Vergil could have just let her bleed to death, but finished her with the head shot.

I wouldn't describe Lilith as being at the top of her throne. Mundus was just using her. I'm sure she knew that which was why she was trying to find a way to prove herself more useful. If she had been able to kill Dante (though it would have been more like the baby killing him), she would have proven to Mundus that she was strong enough to stay in his favor and not just be tossed aside, which would also mean more power for her.

In some ways I do feel sorry for Lilith, but she didn't even care about her child. She only cared about herself. I only feel sorry for her because of how helpless she turned out to be, in the end. Her willingness to put her child in danger for her own gain, on the other hand, makes me hate her.
 
*facepalm* You are making some silly counter argument. Mundus probably could get another demon pregnant but I don't see why he would want to go through the trouble of doing so when he already has one on the way and wants a kid as quickly as possible.Me thinks Mundus was more like 'oh sh--t got her pregnant, now I've got to put up with her'. :P Besides, Lilith's reaction to the succubus with the 'must we talk about her?' or something makes me think he did have other ladies lined up and Lilith just happened to 'strike lucky'. As for having more than one, one would be enough. He'd have too much pride in his own offspring to think it could be killed easily.

Vegil killing Mundus's kid and Lillith p!ssed Mundus off and Vergil was also attacking the psychological aspect of with his fight with Mundus. And why not get rid of the demon who is next in line to the throne. After blowing a whole in her stomach just finish her. Made sense to kill her from a story practicality. What was she going to to if she lived? She'd need to be killed off somehow, and is not strong enough to be a threat even if she did survive.

More tragic than Eva? Eva was not even tragic ok. Considering you never really seen anything on her video game wise since DmC. I don't give a sh!t about a character who I know hardly anything about. Especially in something with such weak storytelling prowess as Devil May Cry. I wouldn't even give a sh!t if Dante died. In fact, I would commend the people for having the balls to kill such a major character. To make a ballsy move like that would be noteworthy.There's more about her in the downfall DLC. But I don't think she's tragic. If anything, in a way, selfish. She said so herself that she went with Sparda knowing they would die, then decided to bring children into the mess, knowing that the children would be on the hit list of the demon king. >_<

There's no way I will get any feels over Devil May Cry. The only games out there I got feels over were pretty much only Red Dead Redemption, TellTale's The Walking Dead, and that visual novel game Katawa Shoujo. Final Fantasy 10's ending gave minor feels too just because it was rather depressing and was one of the only FF games I ever got really in to enough to actually give a sh!t about the characters.And there's no way I'd get any feels from Red Dead Redemption. I was more annoyed that the character I had worked hard to build up was dead and it was a like a redo. But I wasn't upset. As for FFX, I laughed at that ending. Tidus was dead, stupid annoying Tidus was dead, and I danced on his grave....until he came back in X-2....>_<

You'd have to create a pretty compelling and engaging story to get me all emotional. Devil May Cry was never able to do this, NEVER. Last thing I will think is question whether or not it is ethical or not to kill a disgusting demon who would not only kill me without remorse but, is also going to give birth to the thing that will enslave the entire world in the future.It would have held more weight if she was a regular human tricked by Mundus into thinking he was human. At least then maybe there could have been room for moral posturing on both sides. But Lilith was a bitch, she got herself in that mess willingly, thinking nothing could hurt her just because she was the mistress of the demon king. Faced with Dante, she cowers and just gives in. She had it coming.

See how well the argument of feeling sorry for her would go when humans then fall under the zombie demon lobotomy. Would it all be worth it? Just because you don't like DmC don't start babbling illogical nonsense. These counters are very weak.
 
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