Winterfrost
Shadow-of-Sundered-Star
"See?! Mundus, Vergil just saved you a looooooooot of money."
The Truth Around Lilith's Death *spoilers*
- Thread starter Alittleacorn
- Start date
EA9Sol
For Sanguinius!
Why thank you. ^_^
And yeah, figured as much. Seems they only use that to bash on DmC. =.=u I seen far worse in video games and such, and I don't see a problem. It's just ridiculous.
BLACKSWIPE
"Waiting for one's arrival."
I love how people seem to think that the original Vergil had any honor to begin with. Swinging a Katana around and saying two cool things TOTALLY gives you honor...anime-logic no.57. Stop trying to justify hating on a character with something that isn't even there. It took a fighting game to establish his true motivatons, and those were more juvinille than any joke in DmC. Destroying the world because you couldn't protect your mommy? HM... not the amazingly purfect and spurcial character that we though him out to be. I know SO many people in real life with a greater sense of honor than Mr.Anime over here. Bring on the hate for defending a good character. Sorry your DMC isn't stale anime anymore.
Meier
Well-known Member
Its not that there is a defense to shooting the pregnant woman though. Its that the villain of the entire game does it so that the player is disgusted with those actions. This is the moment that you truly see that person for their motivations and disregard for anyone else. Dante got the advice from a demon to do it, but he never did. He instead looked and felt disturbed by that tactic. When it did happen he looked in horror at what had happened and simply had to react quickly to the fallout.
Now as far as Vergil being honorable goes, well this Vergil is obviously more ruthless and desperate to get his way. People need to remember that this is a reboot and created from different cultures, you aren't going to get the exact same samurai code of honor from before when the game is made in Cambridge. Instead you see a character willing to use the tools at his disposal to get the job done. He is a "the ends justify the means" type of person. He was like this in the old games and he is like this now.
Now as far as Vergil being honorable goes, well this Vergil is obviously more ruthless and desperate to get his way. People need to remember that this is a reboot and created from different cultures, you aren't going to get the exact same samurai code of honor from before when the game is made in Cambridge. Instead you see a character willing to use the tools at his disposal to get the job done. He is a "the ends justify the means" type of person. He was like this in the old games and he is like this now.
Dante Redgrave
Son of Sparda
Yeah, Vergil, either in classic or reboot universes, NEVER had a "samurai code", that's been fan made "canon" for years just because he uses a katana. Vergil has always been about "whatever means it takes", and he just doesn't think Guns are a proper weapon for him in the classic continuity, that's it. He's as lacking in honor as you can get for his character archtype.
IncarnatedDemon
Well-known Member
Can someone give me source to where Vergil says he wants to destroy the world?
Dante Redgrave
Son of Sparda
DMC3 Manga; he said he would unleash the Demon world on the human realm in orde rto get what he wanted. Not directly that he wants the world to burn, but he's WILLING to let it burn for his own selfish gains.
IncarnatedDemon
Well-known Member
what is it that he wantz ACCORDING to the manga?
Dante Redgrave
Son of Sparda
Sparda's power, same thing he was after in DMC3. It was in Code:2 vergil that he explained what he was trying to do, I'll have to check it again when I get a chance for the exact specifics.
IncarnatedDemon
Well-known Member
So becuz he wanted power it means he wantsbto destroy the world? And he is all of sudden not a man of honor?
Vergil was described as a man with honor before Dante found out Nelo was Vergilm
Furthermore Vergil isnt like you guys mock him to be.
He released his choke hold on Dante when he saw his amulett, and started fightning against Mundus controll.
that is Vergil i know. using manga is in my opinion stupid.
Vergil was described as a man with honor before Dante found out Nelo was Vergilm
Furthermore Vergil isnt like you guys mock him to be.
He released his choke hold on Dante when he saw his amulett, and started fightning against Mundus controll.
that is Vergil i know. using manga is in my opinion stupid.
Loopy
Devil hunter in training
But, you can't really say he has honour just using DMC1. He hardly did anything in it and didn't speak. He was a slave to Mundus for most of it and like you said, only had a brief moment of clarity because of the amulet. Now if you take DMC3 into account, even though it came after, I'd say he snapped out of being Nelo to get hold of the amulet.
In DMC3, he didn't exactly have honour either. He used Arkham for his own gain and was quick to kill him, told him to 'shut up' and was generally disgusted by the man because he was a pathetic human trying to be demon. And Vergil didn't like the way Arkham was unwilling to dispose of Lady. It proved how weak he was in Vergil's eyes, so when he ran out of a use for him, Arkam was stabbed.
And stabbing Dante even though he was already down wasn't honourable either. He just did it because he could.Plus raising a demon tower, willingly wanting to open hell and unleash demons onto the world and killing a load of humans by doing that. I don't think he cared. He thought his human side was weakness anyway.
He was out for his own gain, fuelled by a sense of inadequacy that manifested in a need to gain power at any cost to compensate for his perceived weakness.
In that sense, I guess the new Vergil isn't so different. They do what it takes to get what they want and in their own minds, they can justify their actions no matter who dies or how many. Plus they both have a sense of lost control in their lives and the need to get power to make up for that. They're both disturbed characters.
Dante Redgrave
Son of Sparda
DMC3; he double impaled Dante and was willing to murder his own twin brother JUST to keep him out of the way in pursuit of their father's power. He never said he wants to destroy the world, but if that was a consequence of his pursuits, then he didn't care. And he is not a man of honor to the degree people try to place on him, he just preferrs a face to face one on one fight. Also remember that Nero Angelo and the Vergil behind the brainwashing in DMC1 was a totally different character as intended by Kamiya than what he was revised into by Itsuno and his team for DMC3, who have admitted they do not favor Vergil's character at all, it's why he was written as such a one dimensional character in DMC3; like DmC to DMC3, DMC3 to DMC1 are TOTALLY different renditions of the character, DMC1 intended that Vergil have been in Mundus' hands since he was 8.
IncarnatedDemon
Well-known Member
Dante described him as honorable.
Now you say that he snapped out of Mundus controll to get the amulet? THATS SPECULATION and...
1) If he did, why did he release the choke hold? Why did he not grab the amulet?
2) If he wanted the amulet why did he not care for Sparda's power or the amulets at end of DMC 3?
No...the right theory is that he snapped out of it because he noticed it was Dante. The amulet given to him by their mother made him snap. and then you saw him fight against Mundus controll, which lead to Mundus teleporting him away.
Arkham killed Mary's mother. Where is the honor in that?
Using someone who like Arkham to say Vergil has no honor is absurd.
Dante has INSANE regeneration, look at DMC 1 and 3 openings for reference.
Perhaps. But he didn't cast away his humanity because of that.
That's may be true, but noone knows WHAT he wanted power for. Everyone just speculate that he wanted power because his feeling of weakness during his mother death lead to him want power for sake of power. But noone knows why he wanted the power, for what purpose:
to rule or to kill or to protect, in that case who would he rule, protect or kill?
They are quite similar, but the difference lies in why they want power.
For DmC Vergil its mostly about feeling inadequate because of Dante
For original Vergil it is about obtaining power caused by his mother death.
What Vergil wanted with the power is really not well explained. But for DmC Vergil it is explained, he wants power because of feeling second to Dante.
Dante Redgrave
Son of Sparda
Actually, even before Dante trounced him in their fight, DmC Vergil wanted rule over humanity, though to a degree , it was more altruitisc than it became after; he saw humans as fragile beings who needed guidence...the fact that he didn't really care for the individual so much as he did the larger picture doesn't HELP, mind you, because then you lose compassion for the person and only focus on "well, the race will endure and continue on and repopulate. Why the **** should I care about one or two, or even a dozen of them then?".
Loopy
Devil hunter in training
oh please, that's just vergil's way of saying "stay down dante" if vergil wanted to kill dante he would have decapitated him, not just impale him
IncarnatedDemon
Well-known Member
No, talking about the second(?) encounter.
I am talking about Vergil, not DmC Vergil. Whether DmC Vergil had honor or not is not what i am discussing.
Of course, why else would he go for it. But shortly after Dante stood up despite being stabbed like a mad man. And his wounds had regenerated.
In DMC 1, he stopped choking Dante when he saw the amulet, and he fought against Mundus controll.
In DMC 3 he attacked Beuwolf and Prince of Darkness despite considering "demon" side to be who he is.
He also showed compassion for Dante "Ull be trapped" he said.
Dante Redgrave
Son of Sparda
IN terms of beowolf...that was a demon trying to kill him, and he knew it the instant beowolf screams "SON OF SPARDA!". So only fitting he put down a threat. With Mundus...THAT was his challenge; the very enemy his father faced and defeated. What else was the great test of his own power, as arrogant and over confident as he was...especially right after Dante handed him his ass...
Vergil, to some degree, still had care for his little brother, yes; they are both their father's sons, and Dante is pretty much the only person Vergil considers worthy of his equal and respect. He wanted Dante to at least have the chance to make his own choice where he wanted to be, since Vergil chose the Demon World, and he rightfully assumed Dante chose the Human World.
And yesh, in the first Nero Angelo fight, I agree, it was Vergil's mind seeing the amulet that cause his mental struggle. of not for that chance moment, he probably would have killed Dante as planned. But remember again; Kamiya's Vergil is NOT Itsuno's Vergil. the former was brainwashed since 8, the latter had escaped into the night and grew up under unknown circumstances and somehow got his hands on Yamato in his quest for power.
Vergil, to some degree, still had care for his little brother, yes; they are both their father's sons, and Dante is pretty much the only person Vergil considers worthy of his equal and respect. He wanted Dante to at least have the chance to make his own choice where he wanted to be, since Vergil chose the Demon World, and he rightfully assumed Dante chose the Human World.
And yesh, in the first Nero Angelo fight, I agree, it was Vergil's mind seeing the amulet that cause his mental struggle. of not for that chance moment, he probably would have killed Dante as planned. But remember again; Kamiya's Vergil is NOT Itsuno's Vergil. the former was brainwashed since 8, the latter had escaped into the night and grew up under unknown circumstances and somehow got his hands on Yamato in his quest for power.
IncarnatedDemon
Well-known Member
Your really smart. I told myself DMC 1 and DMC 3 is the same because thats how most people perceive them. And i am forced by the chains of community to speak of them as the same, though i dont find them the same.
Anyhow DMC 3 Vergil didnt seem to want to collaborate with the demons. So no signs of him siding up with them.
Besides the stuff: which one do u prefer? DMC 1 or DMC 3 Vergil?
I really like them both (voice actor for DMC 3 did a great job).
But i am leaning a bit more on DMC 1 Vergil.
Dante Redgrave
Son of Sparda
As much as I hate to say, Nero Angelo had even less characterization than DMC3 vergil...and the fact I am a fan of Dan "Quantum Ranger" Southworth gives me a bias. So I lean toward DMC3 Vergil. At least he had MOTIVES. In terms of my study of the character, it's because I have read all the extra materials and played all the games I have a grasp that the Vergil played in DMC3 was not the same one Kamiya was intending. Hell, even the Vergil of DMC's prequel novel, Gilver, isn't quite the same to a degree, but that version seemed less brainwash, though could be concluded from his actions to still be in Mundus' control; retcons by DMC3 change this to him acting on his own as a prelude to his efforts to open the demon world, since there was at least one previous meeting of the brothers a year prior to DMC3's events, which was supposed to be the events of the DMC3 Manga which was never finished as the artist quit the project...not something that often happens in manga...