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The ranting thinking thread

Morgan

Well-known Member
Premium
Xen-Ace 2021
I think i'm getting super confused/worked up over the change to Morrisson. Inherently I'm not against racebending and if it was a live action movie or the reboot I'd be ok with it.

.... That.... that guy is supposed to be Morrison?

Sorry but... no. If Capcom wanted Morrison to actually be black, they could've made him that way in the anime when he first showed up.

Bayonetta? Had Rodin: a merchant, powerful demon, fallen angel, challenging boss fight, enigmatic, and also a black man voiced by Dave Fennoy. There's no real reason for Rodin to be a black character voiced by a black man, he just is.
DmC Reboot? Had Phineas: an adviser, prophet, strategist, political prisoner, wise old guy, and also voiced by Lou Beatty Jr. No real reason for him to be voiced by a black man, he just is.

DMC's only claim to remotely dark-skinned characters were foreigners with in-and-out accents in a despised game (Lucia, Matier), an antagonist that exists to be made fun of (Agnus), and a white woman in magical blackface (Trish/Gloria) who rips her fighting style from a previous character (Lucia) with the addition of a ridiculous walk cycle and an inexcusable amount of cleavage (not to mention her lack of underwear). Three out of four of those characters are voiced by white women. But after four games, they wait until now to have a relatively normal black character that isn't a gimmick or laughingstock, and it turns out to be a racebend of a white dude for.... what, exactly? Were black characters too hard to draw/color in in the anime or something?

I'm not against racebending either, but this isn't that. This is a cheap attempt to "earn points" on something other games and studios did with no fuss and made Capcom look bad over in comparison. It wasn't hard for the character designers at P* to make Rodin and hire Dave Fennoy to voice him for three games, and it didn't cost Ninja Theory an arm and a leg to hire Lou Beatty Jr. to voice Phineas. They introduced these characters and their voices in the first ever games in their respective series, but it took Capcom four games to finally get to anything remotely like that. This isn't intelligent or intuitive: they JK Rowling'd Morrison. They're trying to pull "I never said Hermione was white" on Morrison when he'd already been "cast" as white in previous media with no complaint from higher-ups.

Again, too little, too late.
 

Rebel Dynasty

Creator of Microcosms
Premium
Not getting a straight answer regarding this particular thing is getting really irritating. I don't like feeling like I'm haranguing them, but honestly--if it's been a year and a half, can it really be called haranguing? To say nothing of the cost...

Really, I suppose I only have myself to blame for being a ****ing doormat, instead of letting it be known that I'm justifiably tired of the run-around.
 

Angel

Is not rat, is hamster
Admin
Moderator
Despite the constant arguments to the contrary, it doesn't half feel like games are becoming way too politically-minded for my liking. Agendas being pushed, anyone who disagrees being called names...why can't games just be games? Why can we not have at least one medium out there that ISN'T jumping on the bandwagon of "tolerance" (something I have very little respect for) and just let games be what they were supposed to be: fun.

I am dog-sick of so-called progress being shoved down my throat so far that I choke on it. From all this "gender-neutral" bollards to "hey, let's present EVERY role ever as female just in case someone gets upset"; enough, ok? The more we highlight our differences, the more we become segregated because of them. You only have to look at a bunch of preschoolers playing together to see that these notions and ideals we are so keen as a society to pummel them with from as early an age as possible are unnecessary. They don't give a crap about differences until some moronic adult makes a big deal out of something or answers a simple curious question with something complicated...and then boom. They are suddenly afraid of black/white people, ignore disabled people, laugh at homeless people and then grow up to become Audi drivers.

Does anyone of these idiots have the slightest idea how difficult it is to navigate the minefield that is parenting 101 WITHOUT the stupid stresses of how to explain all the minutiae of gender, sexuality, race, religion and which Teletubby is on crack?? Not to mention that as someone with a VERY secure view of the world around me within the context of my faith, I have to try and marry that with an ever-increasingly hostile world that DEMANDS I reject everything I believe in for the sake of some random person on Twitter's feelings??

If my kid wants to be best friends with a genderqueer mentally ill atheist identifying as a panda bear with roller skates, I genuinely do not care. So long as they don't force that agenda on anyone else, I don't care. So long as they don't tell me I'm an evil bigoted misogynistic Nazi who should die in a fire for not embracing Gay Pride and veganism and women in video games who don't belong there or whatever the current politics are, I don't care. I push NOTHING on others - they ask, I tell, nothing more - so push NOTHING onto me and mine.

I want to play video games. I want to continue to be terrible at them and cheat and enjoy God Mode and all the joys that come with it. Fable allows the player to be gay, wear opposite-gender clothing, force orphans to work like slaves, be a slum landlord/lady, marry multiple people at once and prostitute yourself as much as you like - and I find it beyond fun. Why? Because Lionhead never made a point of it. It's just there. You can do it or you can not. No one is forcing you to accept a role, it's entirely up to you. And whilst I know the VERY tired argument of "well no one is forcing you to play game XYZ", it also is an exclusive attitude in the other direction. Maybe I want to play game XYZ but I just do not want to have to reconcile myself to becoming a certain character I fundamentally disagree with the representation of or in a manner that simply smacks of politics. Maybe I would like there to always be a choice. But choice seems to only belong to certain groups now, and I find that very sad and marginalising.

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tl;dr bring on the trolls
 

Carlos

A powerful demon
Xen-Omni 2020
Despite the constant arguments to the contrary, it doesn't half feel like games are becoming way too politically-minded for my liking. Agendas being pushed, anyone who disagrees being called names...why can't games just be games? Why can we not have at least one medium out there that ISN'T jumping on the bandwagon of "tolerance" (something I have very little respect for) and just let games be what they were supposed to be: fun.

I am dog-sick of so-called progress being shoved down my throat so far that I choke on it. From all this "gender-neutral" bollards to "hey, let's present EVERY role ever as female just in case someone gets upset"; enough, ok? The more we highlight our differences, the more we become segregated because of them. You only have to look at a bunch of preschoolers playing together to see that these notions and ideals we are so keen as a society to pummel them with from as early an age as possible are unnecessary. They don't give a crap about differences until some moronic adult makes a big deal out of something or answers a simple curious question with something complicated...and then boom. They are suddenly afraid of black/white people, ignore disabled people, laugh at homeless people and then grow up to become Audi drivers.

Does anyone of these idiots have the slightest idea how difficult it is to navigate the minefield that is parenting 101 WITHOUT the stupid stresses of how to explain all the minutiae of gender, sexuality, race, religion and which Teletubby is on crack?? Not to mention that as someone with a VERY secure view of the world around me within the context of my faith, I have to try and marry that with an ever-increasingly hostile world that DEMANDS I reject everything I believe in for the sake of some random person on Twitter's feelings??

If my kid wants to be best friends with a genderqueer mentally ill atheist identifying as a panda bear with roller skates, I genuinely do not care. So long as they don't force that agenda on anyone else, I don't care. So long as they don't tell me I'm an evil bigoted misogynistic Nazi who should die in a fire for not embracing Gay Pride and veganism and women in video games who don't belong there or whatever the current politics are, I don't care. I push NOTHING on others - they ask, I tell, nothing more - so push NOTHING onto me and mine.

I want to play video games. I want to continue to be terrible at them and cheat and enjoy God Mode and all the joys that come with it. Fable allows the player to be gay, wear opposite-gender clothing, force orphans to work like slaves, be a slum landlord/lady, marry multiple people at once and prostitute yourself as much as you like - and I find it beyond fun. Why? Because Lionhead never made a point of it. It's just there. You can do it or you can not. No one is forcing you to accept a role, it's entirely up to you. And whilst I know the VERY tired argument of "well no one is forcing you to play game XYZ", it also is an exclusive attitude in the other direction. Maybe I want to play game XYZ but I just do not want to have to reconcile myself to becoming a certain character I fundamentally disagree with the representation of or in a manner that simply smacks of politics. Maybe I would like there to always be a choice. But choice seems to only belong to certain groups now, and I find that very sad and marginalising.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

tl;dr bring on the trolls
I've been saying this since the term "SJW" was coined. Twitter's a great place to get your voice out, but users in there are a bunch of stupid idiots. That's not to say there aren't good people, because there are. I say the same for Facebook, Instagram, and other Social [Media] Network.

The cheating thing aside, I agree with everything you've said in this post. I would post it that way, but you typed it out perfectly. Good work.
 

Lain

Earthbound Immortal
Premium
.... That.... that guy is supposed to be Morrison?

Sorry but... no. If Capcom wanted Morrison to actually be black, they could've made him that way in the anime when he first showed up.

Bayonetta? Had Rodin: a merchant, powerful demon, fallen angel, challenging boss fight, enigmatic, and also a black man voiced by Dave Fennoy. There's no real reason for Rodin to be a black character voiced by a black man, he just is.
DmC Reboot? Had Phineas: an adviser, prophet, strategist, political prisoner, wise old guy, and also voiced by Lou Beatty Jr. No real reason for him to be voiced by a black man, he just is.

DMC's only claim to remotely dark-skinned characters were foreigners with in-and-out accents in a despised game (Lucia, Matier), an antagonist that exists to be made fun of (Agnus), and a white woman in magical blackface (Trish/Gloria) who rips her fighting style from a previous character (Lucia) with the addition of a ridiculous walk cycle and an inexcusable amount of cleavage (not to mention her lack of underwear). Three out of four of those characters are voiced by white women. But after four games, they wait until now to have a relatively normal black character that isn't a gimmick or laughingstock, and it turns out to be a racebend of a white dude for.... what, exactly? Were black characters too hard to draw/color in in the anime or something?

I'm not against racebending either, but this isn't that. This is a cheap attempt to "earn points" on something other games and studios did with no fuss and made Capcom look bad over in comparison. It wasn't hard for the character designers at P* to make Rodin and hire Dave Fennoy to voice him for three games, and it didn't cost Ninja Theory an arm and a leg to hire Lou Beatty Jr. to voice Phineas. They introduced these characters and their voices in the first ever games in their respective series, but it took Capcom four games to finally get to anything remotely like that. This isn't intelligent or intuitive: they JK Rowling'd Morrison. They're trying to pull "I never said Hermione was white" on Morrison when he'd already been "cast" as white in previous media with no complaint from higher-ups.

Again, too little, too late.
For me, I don't care if they want to have a reinterpretation of Morrison for a different medium (hell, I love black Nick Fury way more than the original one), what really grinds my gears is that by doing this within the DMC universe it essentially makes the DMC anime non-canon and while some people might rejoice, I genuinely liked the anime and it irks me that they couldn't have this black gentleman be Morrison's son or friend or something.

Capcom's flippancy with canon (especially how they handled the original DMC novel) has always annoyed me. :mad:
 

Morgan

Well-known Member
Premium
Xen-Ace 2021
For me, I don't care if they want to have a reinterpretation of Morrison for a different medium (hell, I love black Nick Fury way more than the original one), what really grinds my gears is that by doing this within the DMC universe it essentially makes the DMC anime non-canon [...]

With what Capcom is pulling right now, it's 15 years too early to say "the anime is non-canon". Maybe in DMC10 when the story is 50 years in the future, they'll remember that Patty Lowell existed at some point and give her a grandson out of nowhere, even if they made a "prequel" game taking place in the exact same time as the anime with no mention of Patty or the Hellgate her ancestor's artifact helped open, giving the impression that she didn't/never exist(ed) at all.

Or they'll bring back Baul and Modeus from the dead and reveal one of them had twin sons, as is the trend.

I'm not bitter about Nico being Nell's granddaughter.................... not in the least....................

[...]and while some people might rejoice, I genuinely liked the anime and it irks me that they couldn't have this black gentleman be Morrison's son or friend or something.

Capcom's flippancy with canon (especially how they handled the original DMC novel) has always annoyed me. :mad:

They could've even just said this Morrison was a different Morrison and that's that. They do realize "Morrison" is a surname, right? Two people are allowed to have the same last name and not be related, and without the worry that people will suddenly think they're related or meant to be the same man. No one is losing their sh!t over Michael Jordan the basketballer and Michael Jordan the actor occupying the same Earth, for instance. And if they're going to pretend this is for some kind of "economical" reason so people don't get confused, we would appreciate them not having opened the anime's first episode with Adult Patty Lowell using Young Patty as a decoy for demons so she could get an inheritance.

I don't think anyone at Capcom understands real life. It's like the spiel Miyazaki made about anime being "full of otaku"; the people in the industry are "humans who can't stand looking at other humans" or understanding them at all.
 

ItWasAnEggTimer

Same as it ever was
What is it with people who make up the whole "haha the dudebros are made about (x) haha get owned" thing when they could easily just not create this imaginary boogeyman known as "the dudebros."

Why not instead just live in the real world, where there isn't a big horde of "trolls" who dislike the things you like? Seems weird to actively work to making the world look worse.
 

Rebel Dynasty

Creator of Microcosms
Premium
Friends for 11+ years, and you're just gonna unfriend me without saying a damn word? If the shoe were on the other foot, I'd have had the ****ing courtesy to tell you. Hell knows I've been tempted many a time in the past 2 years, but I kept thinking of how long we've known each other and hoping this **** would just run its course.

Funny, you know. I've given you so many opportunities to settle up with me, but in the end, you slink away like a ****ing coward. At least I had the damn courage to be honest, even if you could neither appreciate it nor do the same. Have fun in your little bubble of, "Real friends only kiss my ass". I'll be better off without your immature, sook bullshit.

Edit: Well that was a fun little ****storm. Completely dissatisfied with her inability to grasp something so simple, but at least now I don't have to put up with any more of her, "I'm the victim" crap. >.>
 
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Shadow

the horror was for love
Premium
Just saw someone complaining that adults shouldn't write fanfiction and saying that's akin to child abuse and should be illegal. :unsure: And, while I admire the sheer length of that reach, I've got some bad news for them about just how much of their fandom and just how many of their favourite fics were written by people in their 20s, 30s, 40s, etc.
 

Morgan

Well-known Member
Premium
Xen-Ace 2021
Just saw someone complaining that adults shouldn't write fanfiction and saying that's akin to child abuse and should be illegal. :unsure: And, while I admire the sheer length of that reach, I've got some bad news for them about just how much of their fandom and just how many of their favourite fics were written by people in their 20s, 30s, 40s, etc.
Depends on what it's about. Adults are writing fanfiction, to be frank. See: literally any novelization of a well-known videogame, anything in the Star Wars Extended Universe, or any episode in a TV show based on a novel. But this generally has to do with other adults.

If adults are writing fanfiction specifically about children/minors/"characters young enough to be their kids" having, say, graphic sex with nothing to the fanfiction except portraying the minor characters as sexually desirable to people reading it (including themselves, since they're the ones writing it), you.... uh.... kinda have to wonder. I mean. The rant itself is a reach but I don't know the exact topic. If they were specifically referencing adults writing PWP about minors, they'd have a point, because there's a way to show "people younger than 18 think sexy thoughts/have sex/stuff happens" without "imagine this 15 year old's supple breasts bouncing while she rides her boyfriend" being rendered in 3000 words.
 

Shadow

the horror was for love
Premium
Depends on what it's about. Adults are writing fanfiction, to be frank. See: literally any novelization of a well-known videogame, anything in the Star Wars Extended Universe, or any episode in a TV show based on a novel. But this generally has to do with other adults.

If adults are writing fanfiction specifically about children/minors/"characters young enough to be their kids" having, say, graphic sex with nothing to the fanfiction except portraying the minor characters as sexually desirable to people reading it (including themselves, since they're the ones writing it), you.... uh.... kinda have to wonder. I mean. The rant itself is a reach but I don't know the exact topic. If they were specifically referencing adults writing PWP about minors, they'd have a point, because there's a way to show "people younger than 18 think sexy thoughts/have sex/stuff happens" without "imagine this 15 year old's supple breasts bouncing while she rides her boyfriend" being rendered in 3000 words.

But see they weren't talking about underaged PWP. They were talking about all fanfic. Even fics of characters that were all adults, even family-related fics, even totally innocent fluff fics. Their argument was that fandom should be a place for children only. That adults have no place in it at all (which...I wonder if that includes the people who originally made the series cuz, like you said, adults write all that stuff) and that any adult who insisted upon writing it were...well, you get the idea.

I've long given up attempting to morally judge people for what they write. Do I disagree with some things? Yep. Do some tropes and plots make me angry? Yep. But everyone has their own reason for what they write. They could be working through trauma or reliving a time in their life they were happy or writing about the life they wanted when they were younger or exploring a part of themselves they don't approve of but want to understand. And they have a right to do that without people asking to see what gives them the right. Do some people have nefarious motives? Sure. But no one's gonna question your motives and qualifications if you write about dragons or giant robot cats or adventures in new worlds. And it's not really fair to judge the many who have innocent reasoning, or those who have never touched writing a delicate subject in their life, based on the few writers who are just sucky people.

In general, though, fandom content is produced mostly by adults. Forums are run by adults. The people who produce the most popular fics and art in fandoms are generally adults with the experience to show in the quality of their work. YouTubers? Adults. The ones at the head of the fandom, for good or bad, who lead the way for new fans? Usually adults. It just seems weird to me that someone would look at fandom as a whole and say "all adults are gross and need to leave so it can only be kids here". Who's going to produce content in that world? Who's gonna run the sites? It's weird.

(Sorry if that sounds like a rant. .-. )
 

Morgan

Well-known Member
Premium
Xen-Ace 2021
//reads the fine print first
//looks up at the thread title

............ I think you're safe here. :laugh:

But see they weren't talking about underaged PWP. They were talking about all fanfic. Even fics of characters that were all adults, even family-related fics, even totally innocent fluff fics. Their argument was that fandom should be a place for children only. That adults have no place in it at all (which...I wonder if that includes the people who originally made the series cuz, like you said, adults write all that stuff) and that any adult who insisted upon writing it were...well, you get the idea.

..... They... I don't think they realize that fandom exists as long as people exist that are fans of something. Sports fans are majority grown adults that want their team to win. That's a fandom, even if fans of it aren't writing fics about Tom Brady or whoever, or making "aesthetic" "moodboards" about it on Tumblr. That can't be "kids-only". Who do they think takes the kids to the games to watch their favorite players?

There's a decently sized area where people can admit that certain topics don't belong in a work without a mass ban of 18+ people from the community. Will I roll my eyes if a work geared toward children has a contingent of adults looking to make it needlessly dark? Of course. I don't think anyone that still enjoys Sonic the Hedgehog unironically would be served with a fic of "Tails suddenly goes insane and uses a gun to shoot Sonic" or "Cream gets violated by Dr. Robotnik/Dr. Eggman/whatever his name is". Some concepts are simply incompatible with a work, and fans of those topics could be better served by going to another work and putting their fic in there where stuff is in-character. It's like if Game of Thrones fansites were clogged with people wishing that the setting was more futuristic and had less dragons in it, or wanting X-Men but "without all the mutants, that's just unrealistic". Where do they think they are?

But maybe I should stop rolling my eyes so much. Anyway,

I'm sort of standing on the opposite side of the field. I used to be in the "Let people write what they want" crowd, then too many people showed that they A) can't write worth a damn and B) can't stand being told that, because they seem unaware that "fic writer" is not a "get out of trouble free" card and that things they write can be criticized without it constituting a personal attack on their character. It's like they never lived through having their character called a Mary Sue and getting copy-pasted flames in their reviews. But I could take up a whole nother post about the irony of people who write about "serious subjects" being incredibly thin-skinned and expecting nothing less than sugarcoating.

But no one's gonna question your motives and qualifications if you write about dragons or giant robot cats or adventures in new worlds. And it's not really fair to judge the many who have innocent reasoning, or those who have never touched writing a delicate subject in their life, based on the few writers who are just sucky people.

Part of that is because the things you mentioned don't exist in reality. They don't have "official characteristics", just "popular ones", and aren't beholden to real life in order to not break the immersion of the reader. It just has to "sound plausible" and keep consistency within the work. Real life subjects that affect real people, well, affect real people and can be referenced when judging the quality of the writing, and for good reason. It's the Information Age. If anyone wants to write about a subject that actually happens in life and they don't have any real world experience on it, they can Google or YouTube how that topic works instead of churning some nonsense out. They'll get caught out by someone with experience and they'll only fool people as dumb on the topic as they are. Not even a virgin would be caught dead writing a smut fic where it's obvious they don't know what parts go where or what lube is, unless they were going for troll fic.

So yeah. Not many fans of fantasy get their undies in a knot about the "proper way" to write dragons, because dragons don't actually exist and their details can be altered from story to story. Example: Monster Hunter World has sold enough copies that it's safe to say no one gives a flying duck that "Elder dragons" look less like dragons and more like lions, unicorns, snakes, or possibly a carnivorous pickle. If people are upset at Twilight because "vampires are written wrong", there's likely a vampire fan even more hardcore than they are, and that fan is upset that Bram Stoker "bastardized" the "real lore" on vampires because vampires written in the 1600s weren't even supposed to look like humans and were actually extradimensional demons and Bram's version is wildly inaccurate in comparison, or something like that.

So authors can go on about dragons, elves, orcs, vampires, unicorns, whatever, as long as they keep it to fantasy. But if they want to do fic about a character being a hardcore heroin addict or something actually based in reality, they're gonna have to know how drug addiction works to not break the immersion, or risk getting called an absolute exploitative hack. Example: Stephenie Meyer trying to "scientifically" explain werewolves via "extra chromosomes" when people know extra chromosomes cause birth defects, not lycanthropy. She could've just said "magic did it" and gotten less flak. Fact is there are plenty of other subjects to tackle or ways to explain them that are both "less work to write" and "more enjoyable to read".

Anyway, adults not being in fandoms about adult characters or G-rated works? Weird. It only makes sense on the subject of time: the most dedicated adult fans have to make time to produce content when they're not dealing with responsibilities, and kids generally have more time and less responsibilities to write on the weekends anytime they don't have homework and/or during summer vacation or any vacation. ......... I shouldn't have to put a disclaimer here that it doesn't apply to 100% of all kids ever. But still. Okay. This would make even more sense if minors in fandom didn't emulate or consult adults on anything for whatever reason, but that's impossible. Since adults have produced a lot of the original content that kids consume (videogames, books, shows, most entertainment), the tropes in them are likely adult-invented, so when it's time for kids to create content in fandom, they're just going to regurgitate what an adult did or any twists on adult-created tropes are based off another thing which inevitably is tied to something an adult made, on and on. And for young authors that want to be taken seriously and write well because they actually strive to be an author someday, they need to talk to someone who knows, which is.... an adult. The only way to avoid that is to have had them grow up with 0 entertainment at all that's been touched by an adult, which would leave too few works.
 

Shadow

the horror was for love
Premium
Me: "My joints are swollen and locked up to the point where they feel like they're grinding against each other and it hurts to move or even just lay here and I have no meds to deal with this. We're going to have to reschedule."
Them: "But why can't you just do the thing I want you to do? Why can't you just do as I ask?"

:grumpy: Glad to know you're listening so intently to me.
 

Morgan

Well-known Member
Premium
Xen-Ace 2021
Thanks, you triple-titted, drooling, half-emaciated, braindead lemur, it would help us if you'd told me beforehand you didn't actually know how to do the process in the same way you were expecting it to be done out of nowhere, instead of insisting it could be done that way and expecting ME to fill in the blanks for you. Unlike you, I don't give my subordinates tasks I can't reasonably carry out myself or have no knowledge of.
 
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