Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
That's better.
But apparently he can say "get the hell out of here" but you're not allowed to point out his immature statements? Wow, that's just unfair.
Reuben Langdon teases DMC5
- Thread starter Foxtrot94
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But apparently he can say "get the hell out of here" but you're not allowed to point out his immature statements? Wow, that's just unfair.
Gel
When the going gets tough, the tough get going
Vergil has no fans, if you were to believe him.
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
If that's the case then simple, make different difficulty modes.......duh
Foxtrot94
Elite Hunter
Duh indeed. But the whole point is how they'd tweak them. Cause you can have a mode the game calls "Jesus Christ Get Away From Me You Bitches" that is actually a cakewalk.
Cause DMC4 and DmC have a mode called "Dante Must Die" but they didn't really put up much of a challenge for me (and I'm not even a top player at all). While they did in DMC1 and 3.
xMobilemux
I'll just get right to the ass kicking.
The girlfriend says I come off more as a Deadpool in a man's body but oh well, that can be confused as an immature teen too I guess.
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
We all do sometimes.
You said they need to appeal to as many people as possible. Removing elements from the game like blood and gore, inserting a new character and removing a fan favorite, and throwing in a love story is an attempt to appeal to as many people as possible. You think they think a majority of the gamers they want to cater to care about putting in 20 hours to master a 3 second skill or to exploit a glitch, or to discuss the complexity of the characters or their difficulty levels? People that played DMC4 back in 2008 were already complaining that Dante in 4 seemed nerfed compared to 3, less flexible, less total moves, "slow and tanklike", etc. Capcom put their efforts on grabbing the people who'd probably never play DMC for superficial reasons, and gave them superficial reasons to pick up the game.
Edit: the 'mitigating circumstances' you gave in the third page for why DMCs 4 and 4SE didn't come out as well as they should have don't really do anything to disprove my point aside from changing the wording. I'm saying the fans have been throwing money at Capcom for bad games, giving them no reason to change their practices. Now it turns out the fans were throwing money at Capcom for bad business/employer practices, essentially pushing a project onto their employees when they were 'burnt out' and didn't have the passion to really work on it, but had to. Then the fans threw money at Capcom for putting yet another project in the works that had little dev time and a low budget. Both of these games 'worked' for Capcom in terms of making money off of little, and there's no guarantee that now after so long they'll finally realize that hey, maybe not rushing the game or putting it in the works so soon after the last installment's release might work for the series. They could at least get the latter part right but if they want a game by "the end of 2017's fiscal year", how long will that be in terms of development?
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AgentRedgrave
Legendary Devil Hunter
@DragonMaster2010
You've got Cas in your sig, so I think you know what I'm talking about when I say...
It be cool if Dante had a Bobby
You've got Cas in your sig, so I think you know what I'm talking about when I say...
It be cool if Dante had a Bobby
Foxtrot94
Elite Hunter
Yes.
Itsuno is well aware of the whole stylish scene behind the franchise. And, as much as those complaints about DMC4 Dante do exist, overall it is still widely regarded as the best version of him, as he can do stuff in DMC4 he can't in any other game (and no, I'm not just talking about the most famous techniques such as Guard Fly, Aerial Rave, etc).
EDIT: to reply to your edit, they already made profit with a bad game in the past (DMC2). However they didn't repeat another DMC2 after it.
So there's no guarantee your scenario will happen either.
Finally, the dev time for DMC3 wasn't particularly long (its dev process was more intensive than extensive), yet the most popular and widely regarded as the best game in the franchise came out of it. So that 2017 argument, I dunno how much it holds up.
All we can do is wait and see what happens. IF something happens at all.
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WolfOD64
That Guy Who Hates Fox McCloud
Honestly, I hope they keep the difficulty at a reasonable level. DMC4 was as difficult as I'd like a hack-n'-slash game of its kind to be.
DMC1 was difficult because of the shortage of combos, the speed of enemies, and the slow maneuvers of Dante. This was fine because it mirrored the kind of combat found in more simplistic action games like Onimusha...so the combat didn't ask much of the player outside of timing dodges, and hitting certain contact points. There was an entire File Collecting quest built around discovering each enemy's weakness in the first game.
But DMC3's difficulty was nothing short of ridiculous, and I'll never understand why people praise the game for it (among other things :shifty
. Not only did the game have faster and more furious enemies (which I would've been fine with), but they failed to have the technical competence to compensate for it. In other words, don't have your enemies dodge and weave at mach speed if your camera has all the reliability of a crippled donkey, and Dante controls like he's recovering from a brutal motorcycle incident. If you can't see where the on-screen enemies are striking from, and can't move fast enough to respond to their attacks. This is precisely why Ninja Gaiden Black on the Xbox was a better game, because it's controls and camera were slick and completely within the player's control, and the real meat of the game's challenge came from the only place it should: the combat and the enemy AI.
And I know that as I say this, there's a whole host of people hammering their keyboards and breathing really hard as they label me a "filthy casual"...but again, this plea is coming from someone who enjoys the Ninja Gaiden games, and considers them superior efforts of difficulty in comparison to DMC, simply because it doesn't have the technical incompetence. DMC4 fixed most of these problems without dumbing down the combat too much. The enemy AI could've been more demanding, sure, but the controls, camera, and combo variation was near-perfect.
All 5 has to do is take all of those things, put them against more challenging AI, and make it so that the player has to actually learn the combos and vary their weapons. Lords of Shadow 2 had a great system built around this, where certain moves would gain permanent stat boosts whenever you used them efficiently and gained the maximum number of Blood Skill Points.
Maybe DMC5 could do something similar with Proud Souls.
DMC1 was difficult because of the shortage of combos, the speed of enemies, and the slow maneuvers of Dante. This was fine because it mirrored the kind of combat found in more simplistic action games like Onimusha...so the combat didn't ask much of the player outside of timing dodges, and hitting certain contact points. There was an entire File Collecting quest built around discovering each enemy's weakness in the first game.
But DMC3's difficulty was nothing short of ridiculous, and I'll never understand why people praise the game for it (among other things :shifty
. Not only did the game have faster and more furious enemies (which I would've been fine with), but they failed to have the technical competence to compensate for it. In other words, don't have your enemies dodge and weave at mach speed if your camera has all the reliability of a crippled donkey, and Dante controls like he's recovering from a brutal motorcycle incident. If you can't see where the on-screen enemies are striking from, and can't move fast enough to respond to their attacks. This is precisely why Ninja Gaiden Black on the Xbox was a better game, because it's controls and camera were slick and completely within the player's control, and the real meat of the game's challenge came from the only place it should: the combat and the enemy AI.And I know that as I say this, there's a whole host of people hammering their keyboards and breathing really hard as they label me a "filthy casual"...but again, this plea is coming from someone who enjoys the Ninja Gaiden games, and considers them superior efforts of difficulty in comparison to DMC, simply because it doesn't have the technical incompetence. DMC4 fixed most of these problems without dumbing down the combat too much. The enemy AI could've been more demanding, sure, but the controls, camera, and combo variation was near-perfect.
All 5 has to do is take all of those things, put them against more challenging AI, and make it so that the player has to actually learn the combos and vary their weapons. Lords of Shadow 2 had a great system built around this, where certain moves would gain permanent stat boosts whenever you used them efficiently and gained the maximum number of Blood Skill Points.
Maybe DMC5 could do something similar with Proud Souls.
Frazz
General gamer
Here's my two cents: this is no confirmation but it's a sign of life. The fiscal year thing was brought up but as I have explained it doesn't say that a DMC will be made by 2016/17 just "2016 and BEYOND". I hope Itsuno can convince Capcom to make a fifth game. I agree that a potential DMC5 should be a similar difficulty to 4 but perhaps have another newer harder mode for those that want it, I love the challenge of 3 and 1 but I have never thought that difficulty has defined the series in any way. In terms of the sexualisation of the women I think it should be toned down a bit as I think that the presentation of Lady and Trish in 4 was childish. Trish should look more like her DMC 1 self and Lady should wear clothes that makes sense, I mean seriously who wears a blazer with no shirt underneath?!?. I want a DMC 5 more than anything but I encourage you all to keep your expectations and excitement in check as this is Capcom and they're pros when it comes to disappointing fans.
DragonMaster2010
Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
He does; Morrison
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
@WolfOD64
While I'll admit that, objectively, Ninja Gaiden Black is far and away the better game overall, it won't stop me from (wrongly?) loving DMC3SE more than Black.
Even Sigma itself was the better game, and Itagaki said it was poor compared to Black (which is totally untrue).
I do dislike the canned combos though. That I could never get over.
While I'll admit that, objectively, Ninja Gaiden Black is far and away the better game overall, it won't stop me from (wrongly?) loving DMC3SE more than Black.
Even Sigma itself was the better game, and Itagaki said it was poor compared to Black (which is totally untrue).
I do dislike the canned combos though. That I could never get over.
Foxtrot94
Elite Hunter
@WolfOD64
As someone who's completed DMC3 on all difficulties multiple times, I can tell you that I never struggled with the enemies because of the controls. In fact I've never had problems with the controls and I call BS on what you said.
The camera is another matter, it can indeed be awful at times, but usually I solve the problem by repositioning myself using jumping i-frames and/or hitting lock on.
Overall, I'd agree that DMC3's difficulty was bullshit originally, as I hate having to completely restart the mission if I die, and the difficulty modes were messed up, but the SE normalized it and the challenge was still pretty high without being frustrating (thank God they came to their senses by implementing Gold mode). In fact I always refer to SE when I talk about DMC3, a game that rightfully ruled the genre for a long ass time, the concentrate of awesomeness that it is.
And... wut? DMC4's camera, near perfect? Hell no it wasn't, it had as many problems as all of the other DMCs, only being better in Bloody Palace. The only game to have a near perfect camera was DmC, cause it was free camera, and it's one of the things I want in DMC5. One could say that it wouldn't work in a directional input-based game like DMC, but no, it proved it can work in DMC4's Bloody Palace.
The reason why I felt pretty disappointed with DMC4's difficulty is because it felt easier overall as its enemies are generally less aggressive (with exceptions, like Angelos), and in DMD, they removed the strategical aspect that was in DMC3, where enemies will go DT based on which one you kill first, so in certain waves you had to plan which one is the more dangerous to let DT, and at the same time you gotta weaken the others so that it's easier to take em down once they power up.
Thank God the game steps up its skill cap through the character of Dante, which requires you to really learn and understand the fundamentals of the system if you wanna master the most advanced techniques or being able to come up with the coolest combos.
Let's not even talk about DmC, where dropping a combo is near impossible unless you want it thanks to Demon Pull and Angel Lift that being both usable freely all the time are basically free combo resetters, enemies are as predictable as a rise in the morning, the majority of the bosses move as little as they can, the time windows to execute well timed inputs such as Enemy Step and Demon/Angel Dodge are as big as Rocco Siffredi's penis, staying in the air is a joke thanks (once again) to Demon Pull and Angel Lift that won't let Dante go down if performed airborne and they thought that artificially increasing the difficulty by having color coded enemies that will restrict you in which moves you can use against them makes up for that.
Thank God they fixed most of it in the DE (although I've seen that color coding is still a thing, cause even though you can hit anybody with anything, if you don't use the right weapons they don't get stunlocked and the damage is minimum so it's still worthless).
The curve is going down each subsequent installment and being worried is legit.
How should DMC5 be like, in my opinion? Have DmC's camera, DMC1's enemy design, DMC3's strategy and thoughtful approach (without forgetting style of course), and DMC4's deep and rich combat engine.
If they made it like that, I'd fly directly to their headquarters with my spaceship, and give them my money right in their hands. And a punch in the face if it doesn't come out on PC.
As someone who's completed DMC3 on all difficulties multiple times, I can tell you that I never struggled with the enemies because of the controls. In fact I've never had problems with the controls and I call BS on what you said.
The camera is another matter, it can indeed be awful at times, but usually I solve the problem by repositioning myself using jumping i-frames and/or hitting lock on.
Overall, I'd agree that DMC3's difficulty was bullshit originally, as I hate having to completely restart the mission if I die, and the difficulty modes were messed up, but the SE normalized it and the challenge was still pretty high without being frustrating (thank God they came to their senses by implementing Gold mode). In fact I always refer to SE when I talk about DMC3, a game that rightfully ruled the genre for a long ass time, the concentrate of awesomeness that it is.
And... wut? DMC4's camera, near perfect? Hell no it wasn't, it had as many problems as all of the other DMCs, only being better in Bloody Palace. The only game to have a near perfect camera was DmC, cause it was free camera, and it's one of the things I want in DMC5. One could say that it wouldn't work in a directional input-based game like DMC, but no, it proved it can work in DMC4's Bloody Palace.
The reason why I felt pretty disappointed with DMC4's difficulty is because it felt easier overall as its enemies are generally less aggressive (with exceptions, like Angelos), and in DMD, they removed the strategical aspect that was in DMC3, where enemies will go DT based on which one you kill first, so in certain waves you had to plan which one is the more dangerous to let DT, and at the same time you gotta weaken the others so that it's easier to take em down once they power up.
Thank God the game steps up its skill cap through the character of Dante, which requires you to really learn and understand the fundamentals of the system if you wanna master the most advanced techniques or being able to come up with the coolest combos.
Let's not even talk about DmC, where dropping a combo is near impossible unless you want it thanks to Demon Pull and Angel Lift that being both usable freely all the time are basically free combo resetters, enemies are as predictable as a rise in the morning, the majority of the bosses move as little as they can, the time windows to execute well timed inputs such as Enemy Step and Demon/Angel Dodge are as big as Rocco Siffredi's penis, staying in the air is a joke thanks (once again) to Demon Pull and Angel Lift that won't let Dante go down if performed airborne and they thought that artificially increasing the difficulty by having color coded enemies that will restrict you in which moves you can use against them makes up for that.
Thank God they fixed most of it in the DE (although I've seen that color coding is still a thing, cause even though you can hit anybody with anything, if you don't use the right weapons they don't get stunlocked and the damage is minimum so it's still worthless).
The curve is going down each subsequent installment and being worried is legit.
How should DMC5 be like, in my opinion? Have DmC's camera, DMC1's enemy design, DMC3's strategy and thoughtful approach (without forgetting style of course), and DMC4's deep and rich combat engine.
If they made it like that, I'd fly directly to their headquarters with my spaceship, and give them my money right in their hands. And a punch in the face if it doesn't come out on PC.
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Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
"Let's not talk about DmC."
Continues talking about DmC anyway.
Continues talking about DmC anyway.
AgentRedgrave
Legendary Devil Hunter
True, but Morrison's only appeared in the anime.
Foxtrot94
Elite Hunter
...
...
...
It's a way of saying. Like when I say "Hmmm I don't know, I'd like some ice cream". Of course I know I want ice cream.
Figures like that ain't meant to be taken literally. I'm actually feeling embarrassed for explaining the obvious.
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