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General DMC 5 Discussion

berto

I Saw the Devil
Moderator
You know, the weird thing about that is that mechanic doesn't really seem necessary. DMC games haven't been particularly complicated to navigate since 2. 1? Oh, absolutely, it was an RE game so large environment you aimlessly wonder in is in the description. It's not the fine print, either. But from 2 to DmC getting lost hasn't really been a huge concern with the games. Sure, there are a few in 3 and 4 when the path was hard to figure out, and one stage in DmC, thought, that one was intentionally a little complicated, but hardly requiring a compass or marker for the next objective and from what we've seen of 5 there is very little to get you lost. One or two alternating paths but the whole is almost completely straight forward.
 

windleopard

Well-known Member
A video from Youtuber Devil Never Cry with some information from a Korean interview.




* We get some info on V's controls.

* The ending of this game will explain why it is set after DMC 2.

* There will be hidden weapons.

* If enough fans request other playable they may just put them into DMC 5.

* Nero can travel with up to 8 Devil Breakers on his person at once.
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Moderator
A video from Youtuber Devil Never Cry with some information from a Korean interview.




* We get some info on V's controls.

* The ending of this game will explain why it is set after DMC 2.

* There will be hidden weapons.

* If enough fans request other playable they may just put them into DMC 5.

* Nero can travel with up to 8 Devil Breakers on his person at once.
We know. There is a thread for all news and updates stickied on top. Check it out for all the info released so far.
 

SPARTAN-1000

NO PAIN NO GAIN
DRACULA MAY CRY
tumblr_pl7uyb881l1tkbftlo1_1280.jpg
 

ShiningTempest

Well-known Member
Attack’s could be parried without royal guard
More like a bastardization of what Royal Guard is.
It cant even block everything.


We're using layouts that are almost 20 years old and everyone else has already moved one. Imagine that RE4 was still the way everyone did over the shoulder shooters. Just as RE4 is the original over the shoulder shooter DMC was the original character action game and everyone in similar titles and genres was influenced by them but none of them play like them anymore. RE4 is stiff and outdated and everything that's come after has improved on that formula to make it smoother and more accessible but you would never make a game that plays and moves like RE4 anymore, specially with the tank controls.
So why is it okay if Last of us and God of war does it?
Red ded 2 has this awful unresponsive controls.

1)If you tilt a direction just as the enemy moves, you won't get the move you want.

2)Both MGR and DmC showed me that lock-on-free signature moves is the future of hack and slash.
3)The one big weakness is the need to tilt the analog stick twice for some signature moves.
1) Adjust the direction by controlling the camera.
2) I see how you are intentionally leaving out Bayonetta because it allows both type of inputs.
3) There are a ton of more weaknesses. You have to make dial up systems to get some combos out.
You have to assign multiple skills to one type of input which makes it more confusing to use.
Some skills are only contextual, as in parry becomes a contextual skill in DmC , Rising and Bayonetta as well and dont have any individual animation at all.
Due to lack of unique modifiers one weapon cannot have multiple skills and instead you have to divide different skills between different weapons to get the functionality out.
Double forward is a really bad input with a controller as anyone that has played both console and PC versions of Lords of Shadow, Rising and Bayonetta can tell you.
My "solution" for the lock on (hard or soft) catching the wrong enemy would be that you manually aim your shots, a la over-the-shoulder + crosshair.
And here is!
Your own solution to lock on which is .. . .another form of lock on.
What happens if you are facing the wrong direction and double tap and your characters does stinger completely opposite to the enemy?
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Moderator
So why is it okay if Last of us and God of war does it?
Haven't played those games but I'm 90% positive that they don't have tank controls like RE4 does nor do you have to go into the inventory to change weapons or rearrange items. Over the shoulder isn't the issue, I'm not talking about the camera, I am talking about how no game inspired by an iconic piece of gaming history doesn't play like the original but rather tires to improve on it because it's easier to improve than to created. To progress. I said that because DMC5 has no variation or new anything on the main weapons for Nero and Dante and I am TIRED (In bold, italicized and underlined text) of the one, two, three and one, pause, two three combos on Rebelion. After 15 years is it really so much to ask for a new set or a little variation?

Red ded 2 has this awful unresponsive controls.
I haven't played that either but how is that relevant?
 

ShiningTempest

Well-known Member
I said that because DMC5 has no variation or new anything on the main weapons for Nero and Dante and I am TIRED (In bold, italicized and underlined text) of the one, two, three and one, pause, two three combos on Rebelion. After 15 years is it really so much to ask for a new set or a little variation?
Game isnt out yet.

You dont want them to spoil everything do you?
Wait to see what they have in store.
You know Rebellion gets shattered, perhaps you get another weapon.
Nero needs a proper DT, so he might get Yamato as a proper weapon this time.
I haven't played that either but how is that relevant?
Because your criticism boils down to
"this game is doing this mechanic more conveniently for me, why dont DMC do the same?"
I would not be surprised to see Bayonetta 3 do everything you and Goldsickle demand improved.
 

Stylish Nero

We Dem Boys!!
Well once the demo finally drops. I plan to go on total media blackout. No more news, leaks, and scourging other forums (especially this one). I will avoid anything that have Devil in its title.....okay maybe I'll look at whatever combo vids people can make off out of the new demo but I'll be very careful of the comment section and thumbnails. We all know due to Capcom's incompetence and these fan wolves thirst to show the game off will let the full game get leaked.

I've seen enough. Itsuno promises there will be more weapons, more secrets, etc and we "haven't seen **** yet" (his words apparently). I want to have my expectations blown away (also Itsuno's words) but I'm not seeing that.....yet. However, if they showed off the "real" big guns then there won't be anything to be blown away by in the final product and thus repeat the same marketing mistakes as DMC4 and DmC.
 
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Foxtrot94

Elite Hunter
Premium
Double forward is a really bad input with a controller

God I couldn't agree with this more. I HATE that input. I ended up playing DmC with mouse and keyboard because it was a bit more bearable.

It's also why I wanna get an arcade stick to play fighting games as soon as I can.
 

Sean Gow

Well-known Member
More like a bastardization of what Royal Guard is.
It cant even block everything.

I did basically say that in my post though..
I wasn’t saying the parrying was on par with royal guard. And to be honest the actual point of my whole post was me saying that in DmC, we generally kind of had everything we’ve ever had so far at our fingertips, regardless of whether it’s exactly the same or not, or as effective or not.
We had the majority of it there, in some capacity at least.

Overall I thought it was impressive what DmC achieved when it came to implementing Devil May Cry combat without the use of a lock on.

I actually prefer to play DmC without the lock on. It feels a little bit overbearing with all the other stuff you have to keep track of at the same time. That game relies heavily on all 4 shoulder buttons doesn’t it.

Obviously it wasn’t always perfect. But no game is. We all act as if every single DMC game has been perfect and they haven’t even ever come close. None of them. But we love them so so so much so it’s kinda like we overlook that.

But in DmC, very rarely did I ever find myself pointing my analog stick to an enemy to pull myself towards them and end up flying to the wrong enemy, and I think that’s to be commended
 

Goldsickle

Well-known Member
Adjust the direction by controlling the camera.
It happens just as I execute the move.
What part of that don't you get?

I see how you are intentionally leaving out Bayonetta
I didn't "intentionally" left out Bayonetta, stop acting like I'm out to diss your favorite game.

Your own solution to lock on which is .. . .another form of lock on.
Manual aiming with over-the-shoulder is not locking-on.
And I'm talking about long ranged stuff, like shooting, Snatch or Demon Pull.
 

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups!
Well once the demo finally drops. I plan to go on total media blackout. No more news, leaks, and scourging other forums (especially this one). I will avoid anything that have Devil in its title.....okay maybe I'll look at whatever combo vids people can make off out of the new demo but I'll be very careful of the comment section and thumbnails. We all know due to Capcom's incompetence and these fan wolves thirst to show the game off will let the full game get leaked.

I've seen enough. Itsuno promises there will be more weapons, more secrets, etc and we "haven't seen **** yet" (his words apparently). I want to have my expectations blown away (also Itsuno's words) but I'm not seeing that.....yet. However, if they showed off the "real" big guns then there won't be anything to be blown away by in the final product and thus repeat the same marketing mistakes as DMC4 and DmC.
Same here. I did the same thing with God of War 4. So YouTube I will avoid for a while. Once I get this game, I'll be playing for the whole day.
 

Stylish Nero

We Dem Boys!!
Game isnt out yet.

You dont want them to spoil everything do you?
Wait to see what they have in store.
You know Rebellion gets shattered, perhaps you get another weapon.
Nero needs a proper DT, so he might get Yamato as a proper weapon this time.

After Rebellion breaks Dante starts using Sparda which has the same moveset as Rebellion sooooo......but Dante does get another sword (as shown in a few shots and that one promo art) and people speculating his new unknown sword is Rebellion reforged so he might get a new sword moveset that sort of mirrors Rebellion. But this is just speculation Capcom can **** up again and just give the sword the same moveset Rebellion/Sparda has or not let the player use the sword at all (maybe the sword and his new DT are event exclusive and not a permanent asset in our moveset). But at the end of the day its speculation.

As for Nero the only hints that alludes to Nero getting more stuff is the fact he has the Devil Bringer as an upgrade, he has an human arm DB, and his unknown DT. There is no guarantee they won't just redo DMC4 and make Yamato DT exclusive tech. I can only hope but I can't have too much faith in Itsuno. He has a track record of puzzling decisions (I'm still annoyed how he implemented DBs in DMC5) and there are signs in DMC5 and even DMC4 SE that make me thinks he is being too influenced by DmC and forgetting how to make a compelling DMC game. He is going out of his way to appease fans when it comes to Dante but honestly looks at Nero and even V as his personal pet projects where he can inject his bizarre ideas in the name of innovation and being different. He "forgot" to give Dante wall running whose to say he won't forget to give Nero a Yamato moveset this time or incorporates it in a bizarre and odd way.

God I couldn't agree with this more. I HATE that input. I ended up playing DmC with mouse and keyboard because it was a bit more bearable.

It's also why I wanna get an arcade stick to play fighting games as soon as I can.

Agreed. I always wanted to get a fight stick but those tend to be rather expensive and seen plenty of pro players play using the standard controller so not so sure if its worth the money for one for me.

I did basically say that in my post though..
I wasn’t saying the parrying was on par with royal guard. And to be honest the actual point of my whole post was me saying that in DmC, we generally kind of had everything we’ve ever had so far at our fingertips, regardless of whether it’s exactly the same or not, or as effective or not.
We had the majority of it there, in some capacity at least.

Overall I thought it was impressive what DmC achieved when it came to implementing Devil May Cry combat without the use of a lock on.

I actually prefer to play DmC without the lock on. It feels a little bit overbearing with all the other stuff you have to keep track of at the same time. That game relies heavily on all 4 shoulder buttons doesn’t it.

In DmC we more or less had the basic stuff with some added stuff. DmC generally had different weapons than what Dante had in previous games so its more or less easy to compare what they have in common (Rebellion, E&I, a shotgun, and gauntlets) and what new things DmC had that made it parallel to other games. Even with DmC's control scheme his moveset still seems rather underdeveloped as it seems they didn't fully utilized its moveset. They could have easily squeezed in some more moves and inputs like forward forward B/O, forward forward gun, pressing both attack buttons at once.

I do have as much errors with lock-on as I do without it but my issue comes with inputs like Stinger being tied to double forward being very uncomfortable on the fingers to constantly keep doing and a dedicated launcher button (ewww). So I keep lock-on and only use it when needed. Ideally I would like to have the option to map my launchers to the lock-on as well so I can free up the launcher button as a dodge button or the gun special and vice versa. DT in DmC's case works fine as R3 + L3. Viola a more functional control scheme and its all optional too.

DmC only relies on all shoulder buttons since it has 2 dodge buttons. You can easily drop one of those for a lock-on, gun special, or DT. It does seem trying to configure the control scheme to drop one of the dodges for other functions like manual lock-on, a gunslinger button, or a DT button is quite challenging for some people. Damn its almost trying to squeeze all of Dante's functionality into a set control scheme that works for everyone isn't so easy as it sounds if a game with a streamlined moveset is having an hard time with it.

Also DMC have always had parrying. DmC just upgraded it to absurd levels of brokenness to try to compensate for missing Royal Guard. Also not a huge fan of how DmC implemented parrying. DmC is a prime example of how you don't incorporate a parry system in your game.
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Moderator
Game isnt out yet.
They have been showcasing Rebellion for a while, I don't need to guess on this one.

You know Rebellion gets shattered, perhaps you get another weapon.
Yes, and it has been confirmed that Sparda has the same combos as Rebellion.

"this game is doing this mechanic more conveniently for me, why dont DMC do the same?"
No, my criticism is that Rebellion, the standard weapon for Dante, and the Red Queen, Nero's, are exactly the same as the previous 3 and 2 titles. Not similar, not they have the same functions, they are identical. Same moves same timing same combos and with but one or two exceptions, same inputs. I want something new out of the basic start up swords. That is complaint on this. It also extends to the style system, the snatch functions and a few other things that damn near identical from 3 to 4 to 5.

You know how in DMC4 the gauntlets have the same moves as DMC1 but now they have an entirely new set of moves based on boxing and capoeira? That.

In DmC we more or less had the basic stuff with some added stuff
Well, I've been playing DmC lately and it doesn't just add things but it also removes a lot things or spreads them out to Vergil. I really wish they didn't take stuff away.
 
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