Lain
Earthbound Immortal
Man, Dante seeing his "mother" die for a second time would probably give him some major PTSD.
Might even make him go full demon mode in revenge...
General DMC 5 Discussion
- Thread starter absolitude
- Start date
Might even make him go full demon mode in revenge...
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
What would make you say that? So far nothing about Urizen killing Eva has been hinted or even remotely rumored or alluded to. If Vergil is connected to Urizen don't see why he would associate himself with the guy who killed his mom and caused him to go down his journey for power.....unless he is planning to double cross him.
Plus......I would say it would be pointless to have someone this powerful and rarely ever mentioned (who is now somewhat dead and needs to be resurrected) be retconned to be the one responsible for his mom's murder.
V's patron
be loyal to what matters
Man, Dante seeing his "mother" die for a second time would probably give him some major PTSD.
Might even make him go full demon mode in revenge...
.I got the idea from your last post.
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
I got the idea from your last post.
I'm sure there are plenty of ways of using Dante's past to elicit some unnatural emotional trauma from Dante without having to retcon who killed his mom. Its clear from jump street that Mundus was the one who did it it would ABSOLUTELY be pointless to say otherwise. Urizen can bring her from the dead (or recreate her) or use the fact he was powerless to save her by basically massacring everyone in his hometown to taunt him or parade his brother's husk around town.
V's patron
be loyal to what matters
I thought these were clever. Nero is growing on me.
@Stylish Nero I agree. I was just thinking about what you posted in #946.
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
Moves are cheaper than usual
Red orb gains are pretty generous
Devil Hunter mode looks too easy
Enemies having so many exploits and ways to counter them (essentially lacking any cheap enemy design from DMC3 and DMC4)
Enemies waddling around before they actually attack you
Enemies won't attack you when they're off screen
The fact you can get Gold Orbs just for playing online
The fact you can obtain enough orbs to purchase almost half of Nero's moves just by pre-ordering the game
Did I mention the game looks too easy
Easy Automatic
The characters are more overpowered than usual
The devs seem to be going out of their way to undermine the MTX. At this point even casuals should have no excuse in buying MTX. You have to be real lazy to even consider it.
Granted who knows maybe the last half of the game cranks up the difficulty.
However I won't base the game by the demo since that demo seems to be edited for demo purposes and is unknown what difficulty the demo is at. However, the Dante demo was set at Devil Hunter and the Devil Hunter there looks like DmC's Devil Hunter. Lets hope the game has other difficulty settings to make up for making the game seem easier. At least DmC was smart enough to do that. But its too early to judge here.
Red orb gains are pretty generous
Devil Hunter mode looks too easy
Enemies having so many exploits and ways to counter them (essentially lacking any cheap enemy design from DMC3 and DMC4)
Enemies waddling around before they actually attack you
Enemies won't attack you when they're off screen
The fact you can get Gold Orbs just for playing online
The fact you can obtain enough orbs to purchase almost half of Nero's moves just by pre-ordering the game
Did I mention the game looks too easy
Easy Automatic
The characters are more overpowered than usual
The devs seem to be going out of their way to undermine the MTX. At this point even casuals should have no excuse in buying MTX. You have to be real lazy to even consider it.
Granted who knows maybe the last half of the game cranks up the difficulty.
However I won't base the game by the demo since that demo seems to be edited for demo purposes and is unknown what difficulty the demo is at. However, the Dante demo was set at Devil Hunter and the Devil Hunter there looks like DmC's Devil Hunter. Lets hope the game has other difficulty settings to make up for making the game seem easier. At least DmC was smart enough to do that. But its too early to judge here.
berto
I Saw the Devil
I hear you and pretty much agree but I also think Capcom is stuck.
DMC has become a game synonymous with refined combat but it's stuck between the old players and new ones. The old fans refuse any and all advances or alteration in the gameplay and have become downright aggressive when they see it (e.g. the mere suggestion of a dedicated dodge button). Then you have people who want to get into the series but find it inaccessible because Dante has the most complicated combat system known to men where the simple act of dodging required one dpad button to change the function of circle or a 3 input command while doing a rain dance and sacrificing a goat with technical support from Capcom on the chat and if they complain about it to the pros or ask why it's this hard they are drowned out by long time fans who don't mind over complicated inputs. I've seen it, I've done it. Capcom, however, can't ignore those people and just make a game solely for the fans. The series would drown and go stale because no one new is going to bother with overly complicated combat and these games take money and time to make. It's the paradox the series has gotten itself into, becoming one of, if not, the most famous character action game. How do you please everyone? You can't do away with the old fans, DmC is proof of that, but you can't stay afloat with just them, you need new blood and for that you need something that is welcoming to them.
Personally I think adding new characters is a bad idea because before long you'll have more characters that need to be added to every game and the whole thing will be flooded with too many of them and that might lead to the DMC equivalent of RE6.
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Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
I don't know where you got that from "I think the game looks too easy" and that is more on the fact the enemies look too passive and ill equipped to deal with the player characters (who are more OP than ever)....so far.
After recently booting up DMC4SE to scratch an itch. I've noticed a lot of improvements just by looking at the DMC5 demo alone that will open up the game to newcomers. I almost want to stop play DMC4 just so I can play the demo (which I can't sadly but since the Xbox demo ends tomorrow maybe us PS4 owners will get a bone soon).
While not streamlining the combat to DmC levels they've seemingly made a lot of adjustments that will keep old fans satisfied and be appealing to newcomers. Ergo meeting both sides halfway. Its honestly the best option they really have.
With all the media buzz the game is getting, its testing positive with critics, and tons of high profile people making videos on the game (its usually in the top 5 or top 3 list of a lot of media outlets and youtubers top games of 2019...most expected) and the song of the game having 20 million views on Youtube. The demo tested positive with general audience (granted not everyone but the game does have enough appeal to draw in people). People are fully aware of the game. At least DMC5 will do fine financially....unless Capcom somehow screw it up.
Unlike RE6 DMC is known to drop characters and focus on like 2 or 3 and re-add those characters as DLC or some bonus edition. RE6 problem was that it too ambitious for a RE game. DMC is a character action series or you can call it Beat em up, Hack n slash, etc and multiple playable characters isn't uncommon in this genre (even Bayonetta 2 had like 6 playable characters...just not all in the base campaign....sort of and the last NG game had like 4 characters and even Transformers Devastation had like 5). DMC5 will do fine (it can outsell DMC4 imo). DMC5 is a return to form for disappearing for after 10 (5 depending on who you're asking) years to regain its fanbase and piece the fractured fanbase together and DMC5 seems to be a bookend to a certain era (the Sons of Sparda/Itsuno era). What comes after is still up in the air. It all boils down to final reception of DMC5 as well as sales.
berto
I Saw the Devil
I talked to a dude at 4chan and he said that it was possible to get that one bug at the start of the demo that scurries away before the fist fight by hitting it with a chargeshot before it gets away. I'll have to try that.
As for the rest, that may be, but I still think they made a mistake in not implementing some of the mechanics of DmC, namely dedicated dodge and the pull and lift, with nothing said of the style system.
According to a tweet from a Capcom rep they're just pulling the demo from the store. If you got it you'll still be able to play it after they take it down.
Says the guy who theorizes that thing with the lips is Lucia.
Actually , RE6's problem was having too many cooks in the kitchen. That lead to a lack of uniformity and the experience was too varied for each campaign.
As for the rest, that may be, but I still think they made a mistake in not implementing some of the mechanics of DmC, namely dedicated dodge and the pull and lift, with nothing said of the style system.
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
I mean as playable characters. I doubt Lucia is playable from the base game (Vergil most likely isn't playable especially if Itsuno confirmed Lady and Trish aren't playable despite being playable 3 years ago). Maybe down the line as DLC or a special edition if she is in the game. It is only a theory.
It is feasibly possible to handle multiple playable characters in an campaign especially if other games have done it before and successfully.
I want to know how is this happening and how I can replicate it naturally (you better not "fix" this Capcom or if you fix it make it easy to pull off like you did reverse attacks).
ShiningTempest
Well-known Member
Yeah so?
Just because some other game does cringey dialogue does not mean every game has to do it.
I hope the enemies are super aggressive on the harder difficulties.
Bayonetta is overpowered but in NSIC enemies jump on you and super armor through your combos. They really test you skills. DMC3 has tough enemies that do the same. And those games are the pinnacle of the genre.
You already know why people prefer the lock on system its more than just 'stubbornness' or nostalgia.
Its not that complicated. The rise in popularity of Soulsborne should at least show that some people are willing to learn complex systems.
And DMC is more noob friendly than Soulsborne. There are things like easy automatic to help all the DSPs beat the game.
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berto
I Saw the Devil
I didn't say anything about the lock-on. The lock-on is something I advocate in any game where you're up against multiple enemies so that you can prioritize one over there others. I was specifically talking about the style system, the dodge system, and some of the combat mechanics that were removed from DmC in 5.
ShiningTempest
Well-known Member
Yeah I remember the thread and the conclusion was that the complicatedness adds to the mechanics and makes the series unique.
Im running through Bayo again and much of the skills are locked behind strings that you have to get to.
Unlike DMC where there are so many buttons that unique inputs can create the special skills. I can see how Kamiya chose this for Bayonetta as he wanted to improve upon DMC1, but doing that he made the input very streamlined.
Itsuno however expanded on Kamiyas design principle (even after changing them in DMC2) and we got DMC3.
He seems to further expand on those in DMC5.
What was removed from DmC?
DmC is the one that removed styles and so many skills.
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Sean Gow
Well-known Member
NT gave Dante most (not all) of the things from his skill set which was usually locked into his styles.
He got two aerial combos without having to use styles, separate from helmsplitter, so just with rebellion, you had 3 potential attacks I midnair at any given moment.
You could use trickster-esque-dodges with the angel dodge. There were even aerial dodges. If you dodge in mid air without pressing any directions, Dante does a backflip, I always use it in between attacks if I’m feeling a bit gangsta half way through a combo hahaha
Attack’s could be parried without royal guard (I know that’s something totally different but still cool)
Loads of little things like the inverse rainstorm, when I first saw it I was a bit like ‘duhhh how has this not always been a thing??’
Being able to decide whether you want to pull yourself to an enemy, or pull them to you was great. You could navigate the battlefield like a ricocheting pinball with no effort at all.
There’s all kinds of things. Probably loads I’ve forgotten too.
A lot of people hate DmC but I think it did so many interesting things.
And anyway, who knows? All of us have only played a demo of DMC5, a very old one too. So by the time the game comes out.. who’s to say that some of these little details aren’t in there too? We’ll find out in March I guess !
BrawlMan
Lover of beat'em ups!
While you're not wrong, most of the games I listed don't even swear that much. The only ones that use it on a constant basis are Lollipop Chainsaw, Mad World, Vanquish, and No More Heroes. All the others either use it sparingly or rarely use is at all. Honestly, for a majority of these games, it's not a big deal.
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
Well there is the damage boosting demon dodge, Kablooey which is the gun equivalent of Lucifer (just far more simplified and easy to use), Osiris which has Red Queen's Streak and Rebellion's Prop and Shredder and Rake is very nifty, and Aquila (if it wasn't for its low damage this weapon would be almost broken), Eryx (the gauntlets) and Arbiter (the axe). There is its DT which used to be a gravity manipulator and nullified the color coded bullshit but got nerfed since it was too OP so now its just a damage and speed boost and nullifies the color coded bullshit. Ricoshot is a decent substitute for TwoSome Time. The Shotgun was given Blue Rose's detonation charge shot. And you can chain pause combos between different weapons.
That is about it for what DmC brought to the table. That Dante was mainly some of old Dante with a couple of Nero's tricks thrown in with a few new stuff and improved dodging.
Well to DMC5's credit they
-Allowed dodging in mid air by jumping while locked on (it looks more like a dodge than another jump)
-There is more control and verticality to the jumps so it can work like a dodge or at the very least look more like one
-Improved dodging (still the same input/no dedicated dodge button but it works better than before)
-Nero's mid air taunt functions like a mid air dodge and can be used to rev Red Queen
-Can shoot while dodging
-Dante's new weapons all have basic aerial combos in the standard moveset not tied to SwordMaster
-Has aerial inputs now (about GODDAMN time) so you can perform Cavaliere's launcher repeatedly while in the air or if you have Cavaliere R can perform its Stinger attack in mid-air (granted aerial inputs/specials isn't new since Nero and Vergil even Trish had them in DMC4 but about time Dante joined that club though)
-Gave Dante's new weapons Nero's Calibur/Shuffle (forward and back inputs)
-Dante's aerial taunt is the Lucifer rose and acts as a launcher
-Dante's moveset has built in Inertia (so you can move with Rainstorm with relative ease)
-Royal Guard got completely reworked to be more functional and casual friendly
-Parrying is more improved (not to DmC broken levels but more reliable than previous DMC entries)
-Balrog has a built in dodge and can dodge while attacking just by flicking the L stick and if you dodge an attack with it it functions like the demon dodge where time slows down but instead of a damage boost if you time the dodge with an attack Dante performs a liver/gut punch that can stun/knock down an enemy and he does something similar with his Kick Mode in the TGS trailer
-Balrog's ignition mechanic is basically Vergil's Concentration mechanic from DMC4SE (but more tame and less OP)
-The Shotgun's new sliding attack can function like a dodge
-Returned Jump Canceling to DMC3 so its easier to perform than DMC4
-Reverse attacks are now more easy to pull off
-Faust hat can enter automatic mode and fire on its own as well as create a barrier around Dante
-Gunslinger now automatically charges your guns for you
-King Cerberus now has charge input specials (meaning your charge attack will depend on what input was held upon release like regular special inputs but charged)
-King Cerberus has the potential to have the highest moveset in the entire series since Itsuno stated we have only seen 2/3 of its moveset and it already has a higher moveset than your standard DMC weapon (the largest moveset for now goes to Balrog which has over 20...its hard to keep count)
-Kalina Ann doesn't suck now and have aerial options
That is all I've noticed and Itsuno even confirmed that there are still more weapons to show for Dante. Then you have Dante's new Devil Trigger and his new mysterious sword.
This Dante looks like the perfect combination of DMC3 and DMC4 Dante with some elements of DMC4 Vergil and DmC Dante and even more. Its insane. I almost feel bad for Nero and don't know how V can compare.
EDIT.
One cool detail that I just noticed is the attack animation for Cerberus basic ice chuck combo is different if the enemy is down or not. Its the same attack but its angled down to make sure it hits the enemy. Was this always a thing? Man the attention to detail is amazing.
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berto
I Saw the Devil
Is that the conclusion that arrived to? Because I would debate that that isn't a good thing and that it's a symptom of an unwillingness to change or move forward. As much as I'd argue for the benefits a fixed camera system would have on the atmosphere of the game I'm not going to pretend the game wasn't better off for having changed it to a free camera system. We're using layouts that are almost 20 years old and everyone else has already moved one. Imagine that RE4 was still the way everyone did over the shoulder shooters. Just as RE4 is the original over the shoulder shooter DMC was the original character action game and everyone in similar titles and genres was influenced by them but none of them play like them anymore. RE4 is stiff and outdated and everything that's come after has improved on that formula to make it smoother and more accessible but you would never make a game that plays and moves like RE4 anymore, specially with the tank controls. DMC keeping things overly complicated is the equivalent of it being a modern RE game with fixed camera angles and tank controls.
@Stylish Nero Well, I wouldn't advocate for all of those like that but there is something to be said about the ideas behind them adding to the overall game. I was personally talking about how Dante could chose to go to or to bring an enemy to him while Nero no longer has that option, how they got rid of a dedicated dudge, and maybe even the way you can continue a pause combo with another weapon if they share the same inputs. Quality of life changes that made progressive sense.
As for the rest I only really have a response for these:
I rather think of it as the Witch Time effect. I like the idea of being rewarded for what you could call a perfect dodge, for waiting for the last second to evade. It doesn't have to be damage boosts or slowing down time, just some kind of risk and reward system for the dodge.
While I like this idea I also don't want it to limit the number of combos each weapon has. The problem I've had with the weapons in the games is that each one has a few combos and the functions for the lock on + forward or back. How about a few more combos per weapon. One combo and one pause combo gets boring after awhile and I'd like a bit more, specially if you're going to stick Nero with just one melee weapon with just 3 combos.
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
BrawlMan
Lover of beat'em ups!
"I blame our schools".
Howard and Kreese are the best characters you never see in a video game ever.
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
While I would like to indulge you in this conversation but I have other priorities and rather not waste time in another debate that usually never goes anywhere nor will it change a thing especially for a topic that is purely subjective and based around perceptions of a product (DMC5) that hasn't fully released so we can only speculate how the final product functions when all improvements and adjustments are taken into account.
Especially since they're are various design principles in mechanics and output/input results and how both the game's own mechanics and how said game offers its challenges based around those mechanics. Your RE4 example is more centered around how controls feels versus your argument for DMC is more about how complex or high execution heavy the system is (granted DMC of old also felt very rigid/tank in many aspects). Shogi shouldn't necessarily streamline or simplify its rules because Chess or Checkers exist. Like for example, you advocate for a dedicated dodge button meanwhile the common counter argument is that jump functions as a dodge button. It has i-frames and the recovery frame (from jump to landing) is exactly the same as a dodge so you basically achieve the same result. And now that DMC5 has improved jumping and the dodge action to be easier to execute such as giving jumps more control and arch (meaning you can jump over an enemy attack and land right behind them or jumping away from enemy attacks) and offer more rewards based feature for performing the more harder to perform dodge such as performing Table Hopper which grants far less recovery frames and can be used to chain more successive dodges that are faster than even your average Trickster dash or the side roll allows you to change your positioning far easier than jumping.
For me dodging was never that much of an issue in past DMC games since I'm usually locked-on to my target and whenever I jump to dodge I tend to lock on to the enemy that tried to attack me so my camera focuses on it (when the camera actually allowed it) and allow me quickly punish. My main issue with the dodge is the fact you can only dodge to the side. I want their to be more direction in my dodge options rather than a basic side roll which DMC5 seems to be fixing (I think I saw Nero dodge roll forward and the back dodge is a more of backflip now). Basically like how Vergil can dodge while in DT but for a dodge roll not an unlimited table hopper dash (full total control over the direction we can dodge).
Bayonetta's combat is designed around Witch Time (it is essentially the core of the series) and thus the entire game is designed around it (you basically can't combo most enemies without it as enemies all break out of your combos or have super armor) and it is tied to dodging. Most of Bayonetta's mechanics are tied to dodging (dodge offset, creature transformations, etc) whereas DMC dodging is just another tool (out of a lot of tools) you can use to avoid damage so you can keep your stylish rank up. The designers designed Bayonetta to play a certain set way and Bayonetta has a set gameplay loop and thus the game is designed that way to facilitate usage of its own mechanics. DMC (well Itsuno's DMC) is designed to give players options rather than just be a singular streamlined experience with a defined gameplay loop but a far more varied one.
As for the style system I will say this again and will continue to say this again. The problem with the style system in DMC4 wasn't the idea of the system but how it was implemented into the game. Each style was neutered for some reason, the weapons were poorly designed or designed for really hardcore players, and the enemies were designed to be more Nero centric rather than the DMC3 more general enemy design where all styles are viable options. DMC5 has beefed up all the styles to be more useful and balanced/easier to use than they were in DMC3, weapons all (minus Rebellion/Sparda for whatever) reason have built in aerial combos and more aerial attacks just tied to the base moveset not SwordMaster so its far more reliable to stay in Trickster if you want an 100% dodge option and access to more maneuverability for newcomers while still giving advanced players all the options if they want to mix it up or being able to combo dudes with Balrog and be able to instantly dodge an incoming attack from another enemy or a counter attack from the enemy you are countering and more noob friendly weapons like Cavaliere where you can delay its hit stun giving players ample time to switch to their next weapon or style and enemies seem to be general again lacking any BS enemy design that plagued DMC4 (Gladius, Cutlass, Basilisk, Chimera Seeds, Mephisto, Faust, Faults, Blitz.....granted some of these enemies are BS even for Nero) and parts of DMC3. It is possible to make the Style System a system that is still fun to use for newcomers but gives hardcore the limitless possibilities and depth they crave. Maybe it is possible to achieve the same result of mechanical depth that is less complex but it would require so much cramming and creating other almost as equally convoluted gameplay systems that is mechanically cohesive and balanced and honestly it probably required far less effort (and less backlash) to make adjustments where the Style System can use improvements in or streamline aspects of it....which DMC5 is attempting. Unlike DMC4, DMC5 won't be rushed out and the devs can fully utilize the system to the best of their ability this time.
With improving technology and dabbling a bit in coding and game design myself (although I'm more of an artist) there are ways to adjust and modernize gameplay systems or making it more accessible for newcomers that go far beyond than just changing control schemes. There are move properties, input control, dynamic output, adjusting frame windows for certain skill executions, moveset design, having inputs work as they should or improved/altered data reading. We see tons of games improve their gameplay systems without barely touching the original scheme like Monster Hunter World or the fact games like Tekken 7 is the most accessible game in its series without having to change its control scheme it had since 1994. Dante's gameplay tested positive with journalists (IGN of all places gave a stellar show) and many who played the game prefer Dante over Nero (gameplay wise) and critics and that one community manager with some practice was able to perform some sick combos. Maybe we should wait and see how the end product turns out. I could be wrong for all I know but we should give the Style System one last chance to prove if it can work for everyone. I mean the game is literally done nothing we can do at this point so no point arguing over a topic that is already set in stone.
I do agree with you when it comes to Nero's moveset in some regards. Although I necessarily don't need a large combo count. New weapons like Balrog and King Cerberus can have a moveset count that exceeds over 20 without needing a lot of combos. The basic combo string is 4 inputs long and you can only fit in 2-3 pause combos into that. You can expand the moveset size to 5 inputs long and squeeze in another pause combo maybe even go further than that. But DMC kept their combos short and sweet as well kept the pause combos simple and varied so we can chain them quite easily into specials and other attacks. Unless you want to incorporate dial-a-combos into DMC then be prepared to face more backlash than removing the style system. Its hard to explain but it all boils to unique animations and hit properties as dial-a-combo in a lot of action games repeat combo strings as they function more like branches to different enders rather than wholly new combos. Also a dial-a-combo will clash with DMC style meter as since it punishes repeat moves relying too heavily on a long list of combo strings will cause repeat attacks in the set up of combo strings and if the moves are varied enough it will mean players can just spam combos and alternate between like 3-5 combos and achieve SSS with little mix up and effort. Bayonetta thus have a different combo meter that emphasizes this system.
Besides with Tomboy Nero's Red Queen moveset is altered giving him some extra moves he has a new dive bomb attack with RQ. While it is disappointing to see RQ with the same moveset as DMC4 (especially if RQ MIGHT, the full game isn't out yet, MIGHT be his only melee weapon in the game well the whip DB has combos) I still wouldn't downplay RQ as simple as just 3 combos (it actually has 6 combos: Combo A, Combo B, Combo C, Combo D, Aerial Combo, and Roulette Spin well maybe really 5 and a half) since the Exceed mechanic brings so much depth and nuance to RQ's moveset that makes it to me (and so many other people) one of the most satisfying weapons to use in the franchise so far . DMC isn't really about sticking to one weapon or overly relying on set mechanics but utilizing all of your assets in a cohesive whole (DmC utilized this aspect very well too) to create a plethora of sick combos. Yeah he only has the Red Queen but he has Blue Rose, the Devil Bringer, and his DT plus TableHopper and while not to the level of depth of Dante and badassery as Vergil you can make magic with Nero. Hopefully they can expand on his combat in 5 enough to not get stale.
As for sales, series longevity, and reception with how Itsuno and co have found ways to make Dante more accessible to newcomers (while adding new mechanics to expand his combat giving him more options and keep old fans happy) while offering more accessible yet unique playstyles such as Nero and his DBs and V, as well as inclusion of a co-op like mode (plus maybe a co-op mode in BP), an epic and robust campaign, (still a bit worried when it comes to the challenge, enemy design, and to a lesser extent boss fights but I can hope for the absolute best) and all sorts of cool stuff like the Photo Mode to keep even casuals and with the hype and media buzz it has it will do fine sales and most likely reception wise. If you told someone you can ride a rocket arm tony hawk pro skater style and have it orbit an enemy, turn around strike pose and make it explode only to pause the game enter Photo Mode and angle the camera to take a sick pic like a total badass (who wouldn't want to buy that game). Just off that demo alone this game is getting praised and loved by many. Some calling it their GOTY or wanting to now get into the DMC franchise with a lot of newcomers trying to create their own combo vids (just off the demo alone). This game has pulled in more people than detracted and is getting love worldwide. Criticsl/journalists will like it maybe even love it (I mean if DMC4 and DMC SE can be well reviewed), fans will sing its praises which could get more people who were sleeping on the game on board. I can see this game selling 4 mil units maybe....if I'm pushing it 5 mil. Listen Nier, a super niche franchise, made over 3.5 mil with its last game. We live in a day and age where more people are more open minded and will try anything that looks good. I could be wrong and DMC5 could flop in all corners and I will eat my words....or better yet eat a shoe.