DmC: Eastern to Western

[MigsRZXAStylish]

thats funny...everybody loves DMC3 and DMC4. yet they say DmC is a ripoff and do everything in their power to down it...

I also found out DMC3 kinda retconned DMC1, going so far as for Reuben Langdon to say that DMC3 is a DMC1 reboot in his DMC3 interview... No wonder DMC3 contradicted DMC1 in some ways, like with Vergil's existence. Vergil was alive in DMC3, but Trish told Dante he lost Vergil 20 years ago. So that was contradictory.
And, it's not supposed to be funny; it's what I found out some time ago.

 

[MultiBro]

I also found out DMC3 kinda retconned DMC1, going so far as for Reuben Langdon to say that DMC3 is a DMC1 reboot in his DMC3 interview... No wonder DMC3 contradicted DMC1 in some ways, like with Vergil's existence. Vergil was alive in DMC3, but Trish told Dante he lost Vergil 20 years ago. So that was contradictory.
And, it's not supposed to be funny; it's what I found out some time ago.

There is no contridication about Vergil's existance. Dante did lose Vergil in DMC3 since well, Vergil jumped into to face Mundus only to become a slave for Mundus. Vergil becomes Nelo Angelo and Dante fights him in DMC1.

 

[MigsRZXAStylish]

There is no contridication about Vergil's existance. Dante did lose Vergil in DMC3 since well, Vergil jumped into to face Mundus only to become a slave for Mundus. Vergil becomes Nelo Angelo and Dante fights him in DMC1.

Which he never knew. Thanks for some clarification there... I thought it did due to Trish's quote to Dante...

 

[MigsRZXAStylish]

thats funny...everybody loves DMC3 and DMC4. yet they say DmC is a ripoff and do everything in their power to down it...

Well, I'm not part of 'everybody' anymore, since the only DMC games in the original series I like are DMC1 and DMC3. DMC4 was only good for its gameplay and replay value; everything else in it, including story, was horrid; sorry to say.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

There is no contridication about Vergil's existance. Dante did lose Vergil in DMC3 since well, Vergil jumped into to face Mundus only to become a slave for Mundus. Vergil becomes Nelo Angelo and Dante fights him in DMC1.

That doesn't clear up any contradiction whatsoever, though.

Migs was specifcally talking about how in DMC1 the accepted canon told to us by Trish is that Vergil was killed twenty years ago along with Eva, and that Dante hasn't seen him since that day. And yet in DMC3, Dante has known Vergil was alive, and they clashed on several occasions beforehand, well before Dante lost Vergil in the demon world.

DMC1 states Vergil hasn't seen since both he and Eva died twenty years prior. Then we see him as Nelo Angelo.
DMC3 contradicts that statement by showing us that Vergil has been alive and well prattling on about power since Eva died. And then we get to see how he became Nelo Angelo.

It makes that part of the canon murky at best, but there is a very glaring possibility for contradiction there :/

 

[Stylish Nero]

That doesn't clear up any contradiction whatsoever, though.

Migs was specifcally talking about how in DMC1 the accepted canon told to us by Trish is that Vergil was killed twenty years ago along with Eva, and that Dante hasn't seen him since that day. And yet in DMC3, Dante has known Vergil was alive, and they clashed on several occasions beforehand, well before Dante lost Vergil in the demon world.

DMC1 states Vergil hasn't seen since both he and Eva died twenty years prior. Then we see him as Nelo Angelo.
DMC3 contradicts that statement by showing us that Vergil has been alive and well prattling on about power since Eva died. And then we get to see how he became Nelo Angelo.

It makes that part of the canon murky at best, but there is a very glaring possibility for contradiction there :/

Trish said "Dante's lost both his mother and brother to evil 20 years ago". "Lost to evil" can mean many things such as Dante's mom was killed (that was clear even in DMC1 where Dante said Mundus killed his mother but he never said Mundus also killed his brother...fishy isn't it) or that someone fell to evil (they lost their way to evil) or that Vergil was lost to Dante due to an evil source (demons/Mundus). I mean when Dante was describing how evil Mundus was and his many evil acts he said he killed his mother or was responsible for his mother's death but he never said Mundus was responsible for his brother's death too (and this was before he faced Nelo Angelo for the last time).

As for the flashback, it was merely a particular point in time that Dante remembers when he got the amulets with his brother to help signify that the amulet that dropped from Nelo Angelo was Vergil's his brother and that Nelo Angelo could be Vergil. It doesn't mean that was the last time Dante recalls seeing Vergil.

Can you state where Dante has said he hasn't saw his brother in 20 years?

Plus in the DMC3 novel written by Noburo Sugimara (the main writer for DMC1 along with Kamiya) Vergil is quite alive and Dante was extremely surprised to see he was alive when they first met in the manga (and the DMC3 novel takes place before DMC3 and is about that time that Dante and Vergil last met as Dante mentioned in DMC3) and in fact explains that all of the demons thought that Vergil was killed along side Eva during the attack and that Dante was the lone survivor and it seemed Vergil stayed under the radar for some time now.

Plus early artwork of DMC1 shows a more matured non-possessed Vergil indicating whether or not if Vergil was ever meant to have been killed or possessed at the age of 8 when DMC1 was being made.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

It's mostly the implication that "lost both a mother and a brother to evil twenty years ago" means that both Eva and Vergil suffered the same fate and the same time. Plus, Trish being the servant of the dude who made that happen, it's really easy to come to the conclusion that everything was trying to imply they both died :/ Given the context of only DMC (no other knowledge we have from the series as a whole), there's no way to interpret "lost both a mother and a brother to evil twenty years ago" other than them both suffering that same fate. There's no implication of Vergil "falling to evil" that makes it different from how Eva was "lost to evil." Both are said to have been "lost to evil" in the same breath, and then every other mention of that particular event talks about how Eva was murdered, which would seem to imply that Vergil was murdered too, having suffered the same fate. Even in general, the two being "lost to evil" is just a flowery, archaic phrase they wanted to use to make things sound a bit darker and dramatic, and inadvertently fueled the assumption. If they didn't want us to think Vergil wasn't murdered in the same event as Eva, then they shouldn't have used that phrasing, but then it would ultimately let us know that Vergil's fate is unknown, and make identifying Nelo Angelo that much easier.

Dante often referring to Mundus' atrocities toward Eva, but leaving out mention of Vergil is mostly to place a lot of emphasis on how much Dante cared about his mother (her being the catalyst for his human compassion and all), and to not consistently bring up the brother at all in order to make the big ol' "Nelo Angelo is Vergil" twist come out of nowhere - a twist isn't as great when we see it coming, after all. The more they mention Vergil, the easier it would be to come to the conclusion about Nelo Angelo on our own, lessening the impact the reveal was supposed to have.

It's murky, and mostly just sh!tty writing on their part.

Although, when you think about it, the DMC1 game and novel are pretty much self-contained, being the only things that Kamiya closely worked on. DMC3 had his collaboration, but it was still Itsuno's show. All in all, the DMC canon is still f#cked because of all the hands it passed to :/

Whatever.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Oopps. Nvm. Dante did mentioned Mundus killed his brother as well although he was quite unsure about it.

But if Mundus killed Vergil at age 8 then why does he look old as Nelo Angelo?

One of the many unexplained things of DMC, really. Back then, I always figured Mundus trapped Vergil's soul in the armor, and the body just sorta...ended up like that.

Seems like whenever Vergil is involved, sh!t always gets confusing. Case in point how Nero is Vergil's son, when by whatever timelines are available Vergil would have had to have knocked up Nero's mother when he was sorta young. I always figured he was a reincarnation of Vergil or something :/

 

[Stylish Nero]

It's mostly the implication that "lost both a mother and a brother to evil twenty years ago" means that both Eva and Vergil suffered the same fate and the same time. Plus, Trish being the servant of the dude who made that happen, it's really easy to come to the conclusion that everything was trying to imply they both died :/ Given the context of only DMC (no other knowledge we have from the series as a whole), there's no way to interpret "lost both a mother and a brother to evil twenty years ago" other than them both suffering that same fate. There's no implication of Vergil "falling to evil" that makes it different from how Eva was "lost to evil." Both are said to have been "lost to evil" in the same breath, and then every other mention of that particular event talks about how Eva was murdered, which would seem to imply that Vergil was murdered too, having suffered the same fate. Even in general, the two being "lost to evil" is just a flowery, archaic phrase they wanted to use to make things sound a bit darker and dramatic, and inadvertently fueled the assumption. If they didn't want us to think Vergil wasn't murdered in the same event as Eva, then they shouldn't have used that phrasing, but then it would ultimately let us know that Vergil's fate is unknown, and make identifying Nelo Angelo that much easier.

Dante often referring to Mundus' atrocities toward Eva, but leaving out mention of Vergil is mostly to place a lot of emphasis on how much Dante cared about his mother (her being the catalyst for his human compassion and all), and to not consistently bring up the brother at all in order to make the big ol' "Nelo Angelo is Vergil" twist come out of nowhere - a twist isn't as great when we see it coming, after all. The more they mention Vergil, the easier it would be to come to the conclusion about Nelo Angelo on our own, lessening the impact the reveal was supposed to have.

It's murky, and mostly just sh!tty writing on their part.

Although, when you think about it, the DMC1 game and novel are pretty much self-contained, being the only things that Kamiya closely worked on. DMC3 had his collaboration, but it was still Itsuno's show. All in all, the DMC canon is still f#cked because of all the hands it passed to :/

Whatever.

Actually the Vergil being Nelo Angelo was sort of forshadowed considering how Nelo Angelo always reacted to the amulet and that on the back it was scribed "to Dante and Vergil" if you selected it in inventory screen.

Also, Trish's statement was directed towards to Dante as she said "He lost both his mother and brother to evil 20 years ago". Dante was the subject of that sentence not Eva and Vergil, lost was the action/verb being used on/by him not Eva and Vergil losing their lives, and the objects were both his mother and brother signifying that he lost both of them to evil but never per say address how they were lost. It wasn't Eva was lost to evil or Vergil was lost to evil it was Dante lost them both to evil.

Jimmy lost 2 dogs yesterday. One may have wondered off or the other may have perished or was killed in a car accident. You can lose something (especially alive) in many ways.

Trish's statement was rather vague as it was referring to Dante losing a mother and brother to demons 20 years ago and not Eva and Vergil being killed 20 years ago. It referred to Dante losing them not them both perishing in the same fate, I mean one could've been killed, the other literally lost, or was kidnapped by Mundus and made his slave either way Dante lost them both 20 years ago because demons attacked them.

Also one should be careful of English text translated from Japanese origins back then translated text to English from Japanese (especially in video games) were pretty wild and sometimes would get stuff messed up and since the Japanese uses a different SVO (subject-object-verb) system, in fact its SOV (subject-object-verb) things can go wrong with the translation process (remember ALL YOUR BASE BELONG TO US) and Capcom was infamous for rather retarded Engrish especially in the NES to PS/N64 era. Plus Japanesesubtitles tends to say slightly different phrases from the English dialogue such as in DmC's scene where Vergil told Dante "what else were you planning to do with your life" the Japanese subs translated "Were you planning on facing them (demons) on your own?" or Dante addressing Poison as "fairy/pixie dust" and not the Secret Ingredient.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Well keep in mind that DMC, along with RE, always had English voice casting, with no Japanese audio for the longest time. so you literally had Japanese natives writing scripts for English-speaking characters. Hence why most of the early RE games scripts were quite laughable in their execution >.<

 

[Stylish Nero]

One of the many unexplained things of DMC, really. Back then, I always figured Mundus trapped Vergil's soul in the armor, and the body just sorta...ended up like that.

Seems like whenever Vergil is involved, sh!t always gets confusing. Case in point how Nero is Vergil's son, when by whatever timelines are available Vergil would have had to have knocked up Nero's mother when he was sorta young. I always figured he was a reincarnation of Vergil or something :/

Its unknown how old Dante is in DMC4. The game never specified his age in anyway possible not any official source documenting his exact age like DMC1/3 did...so Dante can be 40-50 for all we know (well he is most likely in his 30s otherwise Lady would've looked really old).

The manga confirmed Nero to be 16-17 so subtract that from Dante's age in DMC4 but wait we don't know how old he is....bummer.

At the very most Dante is 35 since Vergil was 19 in DMC3 so most likely Vergil knocked up Nero's mother before the events of the DMC3 novel.........so 16 maybe. I've heard teens getting pregnant at age 13-14. However, naturally bos are capable of producing sperm that can fertilize an egg usually around 14 years old. So by 14 Vergil should be able to knock someone up by age 14 so the youngest Dante can be is 30-31 in DMC4.

I don't consider the girl's age because its more about Vergil and he can knock up anyone older than him..I mean in the manga its confirmed that Kyrie is older than Nero by a year.

I'm going for Vergil had him at age 16 (making Dante 32-33 in DMC4...pretty fitting) at the least since it would be possible to have a kid young....I think it might be weird.

 

[Jak]

There is no contridication about Vergil's existance. Dante did lose Vergil in DMC3 since well, Vergil jumped into to face Mundus only to become a slave for Mundus. Vergil becomes Nelo Angelo and Dante fights him in DMC1.

in DMC1 dante was 28. and in DMC3 he is 18. DMC3 takes place 10 years before DMC1. i know this because in DMC1 eva tells dante and vergil "happy 8th birthday". and in the game it is made so that vergil would have died when he was 8

 

[mincartoon]

Those "Westernized" dmc2 Dante and Lucia aren't really "Westernized" because their faces still look japanese anime style.

Also, I don't really care about the looks. I felt lame when general people made fun of old fans as if they are hating DmC only because of the hair coulour change.

For example:

1. Before fighting a demon
-old Dante: (tapping its head) Never seen a talking mutt before. You know in a dog show, you'd definitely take the first place!
-new Dante: Oh **** you.

2. When encountering a beautiful girl
-old Dante: (catches a falling lady) Well, this is my kind of rain. No wonder the sky looks so funny today.
-new Dante: (completely naked) Who the **** are you?

The new dante can be "realistic", and so do DmC fans point out how old Dante is easy-going and bluffing. But I didn't really like how they twisted existing character to some "realistic" young punk and name him Dante.

 

[Demi-fiend]

1. Before fighting a demon
-old Dante: (tapping its head) Never seen a talking mutt before. You know in a dog show, you'd definitely take the first place!
-new Dante: Oh **** you.

2. When encountering a beautiful girl
-old Dante: (catches a falling lady) Well, this is my kind of rain. No wonder the sky looks so funny today.
-new Dante: (completely naked) Who the **** are you?

Wow. Reminds me of how bad the dialogue in DMC3 was.

Seriously? This is what fans consider "good writing"??

And the fans wonder why we don't take their complaints seriously. Yeah, a real conundrum.

I dunno, maybe it's because they would never admit the flaws in the old games. But that's just me.

I'm not defending DmC's dialogue. It was also pretty bad in some places. But I'm sure as hell not going to praise the utter garbage that was considered an actual "script" in DMC3. Or 1. Or any of them. -_-

Well keep in mind that DMC, along with RE, always had English voice casting, with no Japanese audio for the longest time. so you literally had Japanese natives writing scripts for English-speaking characters. Hence why most of the early RE games scripts were quite laughable in their execution >_<

See? I knew I wasn't alone in this.

 

[Jak]

Wow. Reminds me of how bad the dialogue in DMC3 was.

Seriously? This is what fans consider "good writing"??

And the fans wonder why we don't take their complaints seriously. Yeah, a real conundrum.

I dunno, maybe it's because they would never admit the flaws in the old games. But that's just me.

I'm not defending DmC's dialogue. It was also pretty bad in some places. But I'm sure as hell not going to praise the utter garbage that was considered an actual "script" in DMC3. Or 1. Or any of them. -_-


This... this... oh, and this.

i know. the dialogue was terrible in DMC1, 2, and 3. DMC4 ironically had the best of the classic series. DmC's issue wasn't really the dialogue as much as it was the voice acting. devil may cry in a whole has had trouble with voice acting since forever. DMC4 was when they stepped it up and DmC was the best for me

 

[Demi-fiend]

DMC4 ironically had the best of the classic series.

I think when you said, "best of the classic (snrrk) series," I think what you really meant was, "The one that had the least butt-crap dialogue." :lol:

Because seriously, I can name at least a few bad one-liners off the top of my head. Let's not forget the "Bayonetta confetti and Lucifer scenes."

 

[Jak]

I think when you said, "best of the classic (snrrk) series," I think what you really meant was, "The one that had the least butt-crap dialogue." :lol:

Because seriously, I can name at least a few bad one-liners off the top of my head. Let's not forget the "Bayonetta confetti and the Lucifer scenes."

Langdon made it bearable lol

 

[Demi-fiend]

Langdon made it bearable lol

Touche. You've managed to score a point... this time. :shifty:

 

[MephistoCarnival]

Wow. Reminds me of how bad the dialogue in DMC3 was.

Seriously? This is what fans consider "good writing"??

And the fans wonder why we don't take their complaints seriously. Yeah, a real conundrum.

I dunno, maybe it's because they would never admit the flaws in the old games. But that's just me.

I'm not defending DmC's dialogue. It was also pretty bad in some places. But I'm sure as hell not going to praise the utter garbage that was considered an actual "script" in DMC3. Or 1. Or any of them. -_-


See? I knew I wasn't alone in this.

You say it like the fans of DmC would go as far as to point out the flaws in DmC.Most,would just criticize the old games and that's it.Not that I would say the fans of DMC don't do the same,but DmC fans treat the game like it's some kind of a REAAALLY good game,which I find really PATHETIC.

So be quite honest,DMC3 had much more amusing and bearable dialogue,it was a little generic from time to time,but it was alright.

 

[Demi-fiend]

Most,would just criticize the old games and that's it.

I highly disagree. Most DmC fans have indeed admitted and pointed out the mistakes in DmC.

So be quite honest,DMC3 had much more amusing and bearable dialogue,it was a little generic from time to time,but it was alright.

To you it was alright. To me, it was an obstacle keeping me from the great gameplay. Chalk it up to a difference of opinion.

I think I'll put the above line in my sig.