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30 Fps, Problem?

ZeroLove said:
In the end, it doesn't matter. Devil May Cry is not a competitive game. It isn't part of the competetive scene. It has no tournaments, no prizes to win, no honours to gain. Only brag rights by those who care, who are by the way a minority, an insignificance. Unlike fighting games.

If you need 60fps to enjoy a game, then you got it cut out for you... DmC is not it. And even if it did run at 60fps, would you guys who complain about this silly little problem buy it anyways? Is this one thing enough for you to not get it, even if you like everything else you have seen? Or is this just one more thing you can find to complain about in your search of the many "problems" there are with this game?

Is this really that important to you? And if so... Why?
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http://www.devils-lair.org/tourney.php
http://www.phantombabies.net/TST4/
Not to mention the countless combo videos you can youtube.
So like I said 60 fps matters to people who love to make combo videos, etc. But also in terms of playability. Also 60 fps was the staple of DMC throughout its entire run (dmc1-dmc4) and its disappointing to see that change.
 
Dominus said:
Im going to go against my better judgement and derail the thread but:

Also we aren't debating in a public forum, we are debating on the Internet. And "bullshit" was the only swear word I used. I'd say the only person I could have deemed being aggressive towards was Grey-Frog and I apologize for that but the rest of my responses were in no way aggressive, and to dismiss the facts of those posts over a couple aggressively worded posts is ridiculous. Also if this was a debate in say the British Parliament you wouldn't get your point across by pointing out the other guy sounded "mean".


I provided some good links in this thread which explain the issue well, and its true that the issue doesn't phase everyone but for fans of the series that reveled in the complex combat system it is important to them.
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A lot of people on here have said to make the debates civilized. That tends to mean keeping it calm and not attacking the person you're debating with. This isn't the British Parliament, this is a site that's trying to be different from others by not having people throwing around insults. I've seen plenty of posts saying such. Disregarding what people have said from experience isn't any better, either. They paid attention to what differences there might have been between 30 and 60 FPS. That doesn't mean they're wrong, it means they're talking about what they might have noticed, or not noticed. And not everyone is actually going to see a difference in response time because it is so miniscule. I did look at the numbers you posted. It's not something you're really going to recognize when you're so focused on winning a fight.

I'll admit that the main reason for the games I play is for the story. The combat doesn't matter as much to me unless it has so much of a lag that it kills me. The art is another thing I pay attention to, and the voice acting. So, I look more at the creative side rather than the technical. The fighting is usually just the fun part that also helps me when I need something to take my anger out on. That's why the FPS doesn't matter to me.

I noticed that, on one site you linked to, it said there were multiple causes for lag in response. Yes, it listed FPS as one, but that wasn't the only one. In other words, you can have 60FPS and still have lagging responses. Just as you can have 30FPS and have it feel like 60, though that's more of a trick of the brain and fixing possible problems with the response time between the controller and the game. From the sound of it, their tricks to make it feel like 60 has worked. There are reviews on these forums stating that DmC felt like it moved just as fast as past DMC games.
 
Dominus said:
http://www.devils-lair.org/tourney.php
http://www.phantombabies.net/TST4/
Not to mention the countless combo videos you can youtube.
So like I said 60 fps matters to people who love to make combo videos, etc. But also in terms of playability. Also 60 fps was the staple of DMC throughout its entire run (dmc1-dmc4) and its disappointing to see that change.
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Wow... they look incredibly amateur'ish. No wonder I had no idea that there were a few people gathering to try and look like badass DMC players who can smash some buttons faster than the regular players. So there are signs that the competitive scene withing DMC exists, I shall take that statement back, though I am sceptical about how legitimate those sites are.
 
EllDawn said:
I noticed that, on one site you linked to, it said there were multiple causes for lag in response. Yes, it listed FPS as one, but that wasn't the only one. In other words, you can have 60FPS and still have lagging responses. Just as you can have 30FPS and have it feel like 60, though that's more of a trick of the brain and fixing possible problems with the response time between the controller and the game. From the sound of it, their tricks to make it feel like 60 has worked. There are reviews on these forums stating that DmC felt like it moved just as fast as past DMC games.
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That is true that 60fps games can have bad input lag if they are programmed badly. I recall a recent game that had bad input lag (Natural Selection 2) because the engine was constructed from the ground up by an indie team.. But there is a discernible limit on input lag of 30 fps compared to 60 fps. But if Ninja theory is indeed good at coding they could pull off the Need for Speed 30 fps input lag levels
"The result is quite extraordinary. Criterion's last major game, Burnout Paradise, ran at 60FPS and offered a 66ms input lag. Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit, capped at 30FPS offers an 83ms response: just one additional frame of latency for a game running at half the frame-rate of its predecessor."
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But they did some coding wizardry to pull that off.
 
Dominus said:
That is true that 60fps games can have bad input lag if they are programmed badly. I recall a recent game that had bad input lag (Natural Selection 2) because the engine was constructed from the ground up by an indie team.. But there is a discernible limit on input lag of 30 fps compared to 60 fps. But if Ninja theory is indeed good at coding they could pull off the Need for Speed 30 fps input lag levels

But they did some coding wizardry to pull that off.
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So there is a possibility that DmC could feel just as fast as the others. Which means it could be one thing that's not a problem at all. I'd be more worried about the glitches the game might have. Anything that might interfere with progressing through the game.
 
ZeroLove said:
Devil May Cry is not a competitive game. It isn't part of the competetive scene. It has no tournaments, no prizes to win, no honours to gain. Only brag rights by those who care, who are by the way a minority, an insignificance. Unlike fighting games.
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This is absolutely not true. There is a competitive scene and tournaments for it.

EDIT: I was gonna edit to apologise because someone already said it, but then I saw this:

ZeroLove said:
Wow... they look incredibly amateur'ish. No wonder I had no idea that there were a few people gathering to try and look like badass DMC players who can smash some buttons faster than the regular players. So there are signs that the competitive scene withing DMC exists, I shall take that statement back, though I am sceptical about how legitimate those sites are.
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This is incredibly stupid and seriously just looks like you're jealous of people who play better than you. "smash buttons faster than the regular players"? Really? If that's really what you think is going on those combo videos, then I shall ignore everything you have to say about combat in games because you clearly don't know what you're talking about, and even when you admit you're wrong you have to make some bs statement like this to stay in the offensive.
 
Gbraga said:
This is absolutely not true. There is a competitive scene and tournaments for it.

EDIT: I was gonna edit to apologise because someone already said it, but then I saw this:


This is incredibly stupid and seriously just looks like you're jealous of people who play better than you. "smash buttons faster than the regular players"? Really? If that's really what you think is going on those combo videos, then I shall ignore everything you have to say about combat in games because you clearly don't know what you're talking about, and even when you admit you're wrong you have to make some bs statement like this to stay in the offensive.
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Jealous? XD
No, sweetheart. I'm not a good gamer, I play at easy difficulties and enjoy the games at a level I can play through them, and I am not a competitive person at all. There are lots of people who are way better than I at all games, but I'm not jealous of any of them. Why would I? They are just games, they are entertainment, so if people want to spend their time trying to perfect their skills at beating a game, it is up to them. I'm just not one of them.

So no, it is not jealousy. It is me thinking it is a waste of time. And in the end, isn't it? To spend hours and hours to master a game on highest level, trying to beat other people's scores... and for what? Brag rights. Bragging about being good at a game is not something I consider to be worth anything. To be better than anyone else at Devil May Cry won't accomplish anything. Won't make you a better person and it won't affect your life in any way.
 
Dominus said:
This statement is true I said I'm the only one who has posted Capcom PR quotes and provided evidence about 60fps vs 30 fps RESPONSIVENESS beyond just one's subjective experience. Spawnshooter also provided some good points too, but those were from his own subjective experience (like other evidence in this thread). I guess in his case because he has experience with coding it could be considered "objective".

And I will call out other people if they make blatantly false statements, like

Should I not point out that's false?

But you seem to be missing the point. Beyond one badly worded first reply to you, all my posts have provided important information through outside links on the subject matter. You seem to completely ignore these points and instead focus on the "aggressiveness" of my posts while ignoring other false replies.. If that isn't thread derailing then I don't know what is!
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Oh dear here we go again...
Look dude, I'm not ignoring anything, just questioning why does it take 3-4 frames to do one command when it's 30fps and the same amount when it's 60 fps, I mean why can't they process and render it in one frame, and why on 60 fps it can do the same amount of work in half time.
You didn't even try to answer me .. Spawnshooter did that instead.

It's not enough that you know how something works if you can't explain why it works like that.

Now stop being so tense and try to understand us "lower-class citizens" who are destined to walk 5 steps behind your high and mighty highness :P
 
ZeroLove said:
Jealous? XD
No, sweetheart. I'm not a good gamer, I play at easy difficulties and enjoy the games at a level I can play through them, and I am not a competitive person at all. There are lots of people who are way better than I at all games, but I'm not jealous of any of them. Why would I? They are just games, they are entertainment, so if people want to spend their time trying to perfect their skills at beating a game, it is up to them. I'm just not one of them.

So no, it is not jealousy. It is me thinking it is a waste of time. And in the end, isn't it? To spend hours and hours to master a game on highest level, trying to beat other people's scores... and for what? Brag rights. Bragging about being good at a game is not something I consider to be worth anything. To be better than anyone else at Devil May Cry won't accomplish anything. Won't make you a better person and it won't affect your life in any way.
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You do realise the same can be applied to just playing games, right? Playing through Devil May Cry on easy won't make you a better person and all the other nonsense you used to validate your point. If you only do things that will change you as a person, just stop playing games, they're entertainment and not necessary in anyone's life, we play it because we like it, not because we need it, just like some people master it because they like it. If mastering a game's combat gives you more enjoyment than playing several games on easy just to beat the campaign and move on, why not?

I understand that you do not get such enjoyment and prefer to just play through several games, and that's fine, just don't try to make it look like you're superior because of that, that does make you seem jealous, you won't see DMC veterans saying that people who don't invest a lot of time in games are inferior by any means, they understand that some people don't like the stuff they do. At the end of the day, playing the same game for several hours and playing different games for several hours are both shallow experiences that will change nothing.
 
Gbraga said:
You do realise the same can be applied to just playing games, right? Playing through Devil May Cry on easy won't make you a better person and all the other nonsense you used to validate your point. If you only do things that will change you as a person, just stop playing games, they're entertainment and not necessary in anyone's life, we play it because we like it, not because we need it, just like some people master it because they like it. If mastering a game's combat gives you more enjoyment than playing several games on easy just to beat the campaign and move on, why not?

I understand that you do not get such enjoyment and prefer to just play through several games, and that's fine, just don't try to make it look like you're superior because of that, that does make you seem jealous, you won't see DMC veterans saying that people who don't invest a lot of time in games are inferior by any means, they understand that some people don't like the stuff they do. At the end of the day, playing the same game for several hours and playing different games for several hours are both shallow experiences that will change nothing.
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Entertainment! Games are entertainment. That we agree on. Playing a game to have a good experience, to have fun, to play through a good story or to enjoy doing something social with your friends... That's what video games are for.
But what is the entertainment in worrying about if the game is at 30fps or 60fps? From what I read in this thread, it is not the entertainment value that is discussed in here. It is wether or not one will be able to pull off a move at the correct time, responsiveness, reaction time... Stuff like that is not worries of entertainment, but competitiveness. Lag and glitches sucks for everyone, so those I consider legitimate worries, but they can appear in the game no matter what the fps is.

I did not say that playing a game for entertianment's sake was a waste of time, but to do it to improve your gaming to gain the highest score and brag about it to others... THAT is a waste of time. It's gaming, not sports... At least sports make you a better person physically, gaining a healthy body and raises your self-esteem. Gaming does nothing for you on these parts, so why keep it competitive? The only reason I can see someone do that is because of the brag rights. To make yourself feel better than others, because you are good at some game and others aren't, and then throw it in their faces. I don't get why some people have this need to feel they are better than others at some game. To feel superiour than others. And that is why I tear down at such people, because I find it really low to have such a mindset.
 
Think people are beginning to get away from what the point of the thread was and instead argue about trivial things. Tone it down and stop the silly pointless arguments and get back to the topic, I bet when the game releases people will feel a little silly for discussing the impact of FPS in the game for 5 pages when they see little difference in the final product.
 
Dark Drakan said:
Think people are beginning to get away from what the point of the thread was and instead argue about trivial things. Tone it down and stop the silly pointless arguments and get back to the topic, I bet when the game releases people will feel a little silly for discussing its impact for 5 pages when they see little difference in the final product.
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I guess people just wish to complain about something and can't come up with something new, so therefore they bring up old topics such as this and then go through the same old arguements again and again and again.
 
Dark Drakan said:
Think people are beginning to get away from what the point of the thread was and instead argue about trivial things. Tone it down and stop the silly pointless arguments and get back to the topic, I bet when the game releases people will feel a little silly for discussing the impact of FPS in the game for 5 pages when they see little difference in the final product.
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And I bet that even if the difference is there, people who can't see it will just insist that anyone stating otherwise is delusional...

Hell, I'm sure of that, just look at the amount of people defending the auto-lock and even bashing on the hard lock-on, completely ignoring all those HUGE hitboxes we've been seeing on all those gameplay videos...
 
chocolateghost79 said:
The problem with this comparison is that the DMC4 part is sped up to turbo mode, while the DmC footage is not.
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to be honest the bigger issue i have with that comparison is the fact that you are on one side showing a average DmC player going through a training level showing some combo's while on the other you have someone playing the game on a pro level. It isn't exactly a fair comparison
 
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