30 Fps, Problem?

[Dominus]

@Dominus: So you're saying that it's not a big deal because it ultimately doesn't effect gameplay in a big infuriating way?

I'm saying they are balancing all aspects of the game around 30 fps but that doesn't mean there couldn't be badly performing areas in terms of fps like other locked 30 fps games have. DMC3 and DMC4 also have occasional dips in performance too. I just hope the performance dips in this game are not highly prevalent in combat and only present in some areas.

 

[CheeseKao]

Youtube only screws up 60 fps game frame rates because it runs at 30 fps. I doubt it'd screw up 30 fps streamed games. And I guess you could say frame rate lock is like a fps cap, but they optimize the game around the frame rate, and they don't physically prevent the game from going a couple frames above (like 60 fps and vysnc).

Dark Souls was capped at 30 fps but you see performance drops in the game on the xbox 360 version.

So basically from what I've read capping games at a certain frame rate isn't a magical way of getting better performance, its more for retaining visual fidelity or style (in terms of animation and flow in the game).

I'd say it's more apparent with 60fps games but just about any video can be affected. Any video uploaded is processed by youtube and the final product may not be 100% similar to the raw video that you've uploaded. Anyway, it's pointless to talk about this since we don't watch the same videos and such.

Also, I'd like to reiterate and locking and capping are two different things. When you lock something, you're keeping that something as what it is. When you cap something, you're giving that something a maximum limit but that something doesn't necessarily always reach that limit.

 

[seraphmaycry]

the easiest way to think about this is it is 30fps so they can make the game better and they gonna try their best to make it run well if it does not it will be crap and we will get our original characters and storyline if its good then most likely thats a statement that developers know what they are doing meaning the game will be good so other way its impossible to lose

 

[Dominus]

, I'd like to reiterate and locking and capping are two different things. When you lock something, you're keeping that something as what it is. When you cap something, you're giving that something a maximum limit but that something doesn't necessarily always reach that limit.

Yah I guess that is true and here is something that took me a while to find that explains it well. I was just assuming at the end of the main game's loop that the frames on the screen would be updated if x amount of seconds passed, thus only updating the display every 1/30 of a second for locked 30 fps and 1/60 a second for locked 60 fps. But I guess it also means keeping the game logic in tune:

Depends what you mean by saying "you want to lock the game at 60fps".
If you want to limit the game rendering at max 60fps its very simple :
Each frame, just check if the game is running to fast, if so just wait :

Please note that if vertical sync is enabled, rendering will already be limited to 60fps.
But if you want to have your game logic locked at 60fps, no more no less, that's different. Then you have to separate code you want to run at 60fps from rendering code and make necessary changes to make sure that code is called at same fixed time intervals. It is called "fixed timestep". Make a search on gamedev or google. There is a lot of info on this.

http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/27367/problem-trying-to-lock-framerate-at-60-fps
http://docs.unity3d.com/Documentation/Components/class-TimeManager.html

 

[TWOxACROSS]

So, then...what does that all mean...? I'm sorta illiterate on in-depth tech stuff.

So the game system and its animations are all supposed to run synchronize at a locked 30fps? So an input will always have the same timing as its action?

 

[berto]

Didn't DMC4 run at 30fps on coucil?

I honestly don't think this is an issue for me, I don't need 60fps since my reaction times are not good enough to take advantage of it. I know it makes a difference but it's not like it'll make the game unplayable.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

DMC4 was 60fps on consoles. That's why some are so upset that DmC is "below the standard" being locked at 30fps.

 

[CheeseKao]

Yah I guess that is true and here is something that took me a while to find that explains it well. I was just assuming at the end of the main game's loop that the frames on the screen would be updated if x amount of seconds passed, thus only updating the display every 1/30 of a second for locked 30 fps and 1/60 a second for locked 60 fps. But I guess it also means keeping the game logic in tune:



http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/27367/problem-trying-to-lock-framerate-at-60-fps
http://docs.unity3d.com/Documentation/Components/class-TimeManager.html

Great, now you've reminded me about how bad I did in my computer skills class T_T Damned coding...

 

[Dominus]

So, then...what does that all mean...? I'm sorta illiterate on in-depth tech stuff.

So the game system and its animations are all supposed to run synchronize at a locked 30fps? So an input will always have the same timing as its action?

Well from my understanding of it, you set your gaming logic to run at a fixed rate (like physics, hit detection, key inputs, AI, animation frames, etc) so how the game responds and plays is always at 1/30 second tick rate. Then you set your rendering code which is the environment, models, animations, etc to be around 30 fps because that is the speed at which everything under the hood is synched to.

So the rate at which the game plays is at 30 ticks per second and the visuals are optimized around this game logic setting (around 30 frames per second).

But be warned I've only coded 2d games and slightly dabbled in 3d games so this is only based on what I've read in the linked articles... Because I couldn't find anything else on it but in 3d game development forums lolll..

 

[berto]

DMC4 was 60fps on consoles. That's why some are so upset that DmC is "below the standard" being locked at 30fps.

I'm ganna have to play that again, I don't remember the gameplay been at 60...

You know, I find DMC4 to be sub par, even at 60fps, but DmC ran fine at 30. I don't think this issue is warented. But to me 30fps aren't imparing, maybe to other players they are. It's going to come down to who needs the extra 30 frames to respond faster.

If I remember correctly at 24fps the human eye can't see the individual images composing the video but we are able to clearly see the difference between 30 and 60 so it's not as tough it doesn't make a difference in the visual deparment, but does that translate in the gameplay aspect. The game can respond at an instant, and it does, believe me, that could rival a 60fps version.

 

[Gbraga]

After the Playstation Access footage, I'm not even worried about 60 vs 30 anymore, but 360 vs PS3, and since I only have a PS3 (no interest in buying a 360 at all), that's a real issue to me, not just pointless console wars.

 

[berto]

Well, I have both, access anyway, so I'll download both and give a compairison of each demo, let you know if there is a significant difference. I'd do a capture but I ain't got that type of equipment.

 

[Razyel]

Well, I have both, access anyway, so I'll download both and give a compairison of each demo, let you know if there is a significant difference. I'd do a capture but I ain't got that type of equipment.

Use your potato, I mean cellphone

 

[Dominus]

If I remember correctly at 24fps the human eye can't see the individual images composing the video but we are able to clearly see the difference between 30 and 60 so it's not as tough it doesn't make a difference in the visual deparment, but does that translate in the gameplay aspect. The game can respond at an instant, and it does, believe me, that could rival a 60fps version.

Test for yourself!

 

[TWOxACROSS]

For some reason 60fps looks slower to me. I know I'm seeing more of its animation but...it just seems...slower...somehow.

 

[Dominus]

For some reason 60fps looks slower to me. I know I'm seeing more of its animation but...it just seems...slower...somehow.

Also make sure the animation frames are in sync when you view both. You do this by to scrolling down to just the 30 fps and 60 fps view and then refresh the page.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Well yeah. I can see the slight difference, but overall, it still looks slower, just by looking at one >.<

 

[seraphmaycry]

someone funny about this supposedly that after 25 fps hardly anyone can tell the difference between that and higher fps so i wouldn't stress about it all