30 Fps, Problem?

[majeh116]

So mabye I'm the minority. Mabye I'm about to ask a question that makes me look like a total newcomer to the Devil may cry brand but it's something I need to ask. One of the biggest point i her put against DmC is that it runs at 30 frames per second. Now from a technical side i can kind of understand why this matters as you are losing half the precision to do things that you could do before (oh no what will i do without those precious miliseconds) now I want to ask does the averrage DMC player really utilize those 60 frames or is it something that is easy to hold against the game but dosen't really matter. Are all of you jump cancelling and just guarding and all the other terms or is it just me who dosen't do that?

 

[Azurel]

People have a problem with this now more than ever due to the fact that the PC version of DmC has 60 fps. I honestly don't know why NT couldn't do it when working on the home console version. However, none of this is a deal-breaker, seeing as how the game runs smoothly in most parts in any case.

What I do have an issue with is the number of glitches found in the game. That's a big problem. Anything that makes a game unplayable is something to be worried about. I'm not just talking about DmC-- I'm talking about almost every game out there in existence.

 

[majeh116]

People have a problem with this now more than ever due to the fact that the PC version of DmC has 60 fps. I honestly don't know why NT couldn't do it when working on the home console version. However, none of this is a deal-breaker, seeing as how the game runs smoothly in most parts in any case.

What I do have an issue with is the number of glitches found in the game. That's a big problem. Anything that makes a game unplayable is something to be worried about. I'm not just talking about DmC-- I'm talking about almost every game out there in existence.

The console cannot handle the game going at 60 frames with their destructible environments the only reason pc's have 60 is because they are overall better tech then the current gen of consoles, as for the glitches this game was done in i think april and they have been polishing it since then. If it is still glitchy after all that then I think there are bigger conerns then the framerate or even the game itself XD

 

[Gbraga]

I do that stuff and 60fps makes a difference to me, even simpler things like EX and MAX Act with Nero relies heavily on the framerate, but I'm not gonna lie, most people complaining wouldn't be able to tell the difference if no one told them, that's for sure.

That's assuming it runs at stable 30fps, of course, everyone notices framerate dips.

 

[lorddemolatron]

For me can be 30 or 60 FPS, but I only want to have fast action what series had in this newnest game, nothing more.

 

[majeh116]

I do that stuff and 60fps makes a difference to me, even simpler things like EX and MAX Act with Nero relies heavily on the framerate, but I'm not gonna lie, most people complaining wouldn't be able to tell the difference if no one told them, that's for sure.

That's assuming it runs at stable 30fps, of course, everyone notices framerate dips.

out of curiosity does having it at 30 frames make it easier to do these actions or harder since id imagine it would be harder since u have less frames to work with and doing those things would be more "hardcore" if you are gonna call it that

 

[GF9000000Returns]

This is why I think the game needs to have a Turbo Mode just in case the fans find this kind of speed a real problem.

 

[Gbraga]

out of curiosity does having it at 30 frames make it easier to do these actions or harder since id imagine it would be harder since u have less frames to work with and doing those things would be more "hardcore" if you are gonna call it that

A lot harder, to the point where it's not viable to do it at all. That's why some people worry about the game's speed. 30fps doesn't mean the game is slower, that's true, but if they want to retain links and stuff like that, it should be, otherwise it would not be practical to do them. They can either tone the combat down by removing those things/giving them bigger windows or keep them and make the game slower. Seeing how freaking big the parry window is in this game, they chose the first option in order to keep the combat fast.

There are also other things that relate to the framerate or lack of a hard lock-on that are not directly determined by those things, but are inevitable side-effects. Like have you noticed how freaking HUGE some of the hitboxes are in this game? Without the manual lock-on, you want to make sure the player will hit the enemy when they want to, so having those big ass hitboxes is a way to do it. The bigger focus on crowd control gameplay is also a side effect of not having the manual lock-on to keep it 1 on 1 all the time. The manual lock-on is also better for positioning with the enemy, without it we have this gigantic Enemy Step hitbox to make sure we'll get jump cancel when we want to jump cancel, but it also means we'll sometimes get it when we don't want it.

The visual fidelity of 60fps is also very important to get visual cues of when to press a button to perform a tight link, and I believe that when they talk about that "feel of 60fps" bullshit, that's what they're talking about, it will be as visually smooth as a 60fps game, but it won't have those 1 frame links and stuff like that because "the feel of 60fps" is not enough to make you perform links made for real 60fps.

That's why even though it is great that the PC version will be 60fps, it's not ideal and doesn't change it all that much, in the end it's still a game balanced around 30fps in its mechanics, just smoother. But that being said, it's Capcom we're talking about and it's quite possible that they WILL rebalance it for the PC version, with things like Turbo Mode and whatnot, so we'll see...

 

[JoshMoshes]

Its hard to describe the experience of 30fps vs 60fps because it varies from person to person. Most of the people who are hardcore DMC players at heart take the difference drop from 60fps to 30fps very serious. But honestly, I don't even think frame rates are THAT vital to how this game plays. Sure, it would be nicer to play at 60fps (especially this game, omph) but if the game is designed properly along 30fps, why complain? Just because you're not getting more like before?

There is no denying that there is a difference in fluidity but the game flows nicely and plays well on 30fps.
Keep in mind, there are games that are 60fps out there that aren't as good as 30 fps games.

 

[Razyel]

I don't think that the speed is the problem here, it's the smoothness of that fast movement, and I don't think that any of us has enough speed and dexterity to make a few milliseconds count towards anything.
In fighting games this might effect a little bit but not much, it's just there to please your eyes a little more ...

Edit: timing is more about the muscle memory than your eyes, that's how drummers, guitarists and bassits can keep their rhythm up...

 

[Gbraga]

Its hard to describe the experience of 30fps vs 60fps because it varies from person to person. Most of the people who are hardcore DMC players at heart take the difference drop from 60fps to 30fps very serious. But honestly, I don't even think frame rates are THAT vital to how this game plays. Sure, it would be nicer to play at 60fps (especially this game, omph) but if the game is designed properly along 30fps, why complain? Just because you're not getting more like before?

There is no denying that there is a difference in fluidity but the game flows nicely and plays well on 30fps.
Keep in mind, there are games that are 60fps out there that aren't as good as 30 fps games.

Yes, I agree.

It's fair to be worried about how it'll play compared to DMC 3 and 4 that still are top notch in their genre, but saying it will be outright bad is just silly.

Yes, DmC's combat probably won't be anywhere as good as DMC3 and 4, but nothing else is, so that's not really telling much. Aside from Bayo and DMC (maybe Ninja Gaiden but for completely different reasons) I can't see a game with combat better than DmC's combat seems to be, and that's a huge thing for Ninja Theory, the guys who were famous for their storytelling and infamous for their bad performance and gameplay until like 1 year ago.

 

[Gbraga]

I don't think that the speed is the problem here, it's the smoothness of that fast movement, and I don't think that any of us has enough speed and dexterity to make a few milliseconds count towards anything.
In fighting games this might effect a little bit but not much, it's just there to please your eyes a little more ...

Believe me, it does make a difference. Just go ask around about Marvel 3 on the 360 versus Marvel 3 on the PS3, most people will tell you the PS3 version is garbage, and they're pratically identical except from a few instances where the PS3 doesn't hold the framerate and dips a little, that makes a HUGE difference on fighting games, and truth be told, DMC's combat engine since 3 is pretty much a fighting game engine. They even had Neo_G (Battle Designer from Capcom's Fighting Games) working on them. I actually think DMC 4 is way harder to master than any of the current played fighting games, and framerate already makes a big difference on them.

 

[Razyel]

Framerate drop is not the same thing as 30 fps when your framerate actually drops you are starting to go below 24 fps or something if you would have been playing on 30fps all the time you wouldn't notice the difference between 30 and 60 fps ...

 

[Gbraga]

Framerate drop is not the same thing as 30 fps when your framerate actually drops you are starting to go below 24 fps or something if you would have been playing on 30fps all the time you wouldn't notice the difference between 30 and 60 fps ...

For the same game, that may be true (I still think people would notice the difference, but whatever), the point is a game designed for 30fps vs a game designed for 60fps, and there lies a huge difference. The same game that was designed for 30fps running at 60 would be smoother, but that's it. It needs a proper rebalance to make enough difference for someone who hated it at 30 to like it at 60.

 

[Razyel]

Of course if someone would play the same game with 30 and 60 fps versions side by side you would notice the difference.
I'm just saying that it doesn't make your gaming any harder or easier, as long as you can see the movement you can learn the rhythm.
Fighting games are also based on thinking how your opponent might attack you that's what they call experience, if you have it you can sort of "sense" your opponents next move, 60 fps might help you a little, but we are not supermen our eyes cannot see the difference between 10 or 1 millisecond because it's so darn fast, it's faster than you can think

 

[berto]

Like I said back ay comic con: I had no issue playing at 30 fps. The game is smooth and very responsive in a way that you can't tell from just watching, you can only see it with the controler in your hand.

At the same time, though, I'm not a top player. I've never needed the 60fps so I might not be one to ask.

 

[chocolateghost79]

Like I said back ay comic con: I had no issue playing at 30 fps. The game is smooth and very responsive in a way that you can't tell from just watching, you can only see it with the controler in your hand.

At the same time, though, I'm not a top player. I've never needed the 60fps so I might not be one to ask.

And that's the good thing about it. Ninja Theory are great at graphics so it looks like it's playing at 60fps and Capcom are experts at making gameplay feel like 60 fps so if it looks and feels like 60 fps how could someone tell the difference?

 

[Razyel]

Because they can't in the first place, it's all just a big hoax and marketing gimmick. Of course there are more "slower" games on 30fps but that's because they don't need fast movement same way you could have "slow" 60 fps games...

 

[chocolateghost79]

Because they can't in the first place, it's all just a big hoax and marketing gimmick. Of course there are more "slower" games on 30fps but that's because they don't need fast movement same way you could have "slow" 60 fps games...

Exactly.

 

[majeh116]

Yes, I agree.

It's fair to be worried about how it'll play compared to DMC 3 and 4 that still are top notch in their genre, but saying it will be outright bad is just silly.

Yes, DmC's combat probably won't be anywhere as good as DMC3 and 4, but nothing else is, so that's not really telling much. Aside from Bayo and DMC (maybe Ninja Gaiden but for completely different reasons) I can't see a game with combat better than DmC's combat seems to be, and that's a huge thing for Ninja Theory, the guys who were famous for their storytelling and infamous for their bad performance and gameplay until like 1 year ago.

what about rising? I personally have enjoyed my gameplay sessions with DmC more then rising but you seem like a more experienced player so ill ask you your opinion on it