30 Fps, Problem?

[Paexie]

Hey, just as a cool reminder:
Every game can be competitive.
Every game has entertainment value.
You are not less of a gamer when preferring either or both.
What makes you a gamer? You like games, you play games, you love being part of that community and that's all you need.
After reading all the responses I felt that some where almost hitting the "not a true fan because x" argument, and that's really dumb and I'm glad you all didn't derail it to that. You deserve a thousand internets.

On topic, I'm ok knowing that NT built the game around their limitations for consoles. I can actually see why there would be tons of slow down if the game pushed the frames for it in all accounts. I remember beautifully crafted games like Odin Sphere having serious and annoying slow down just for having more that 5 enemies/actions moving on screen.

I would really like to see how the PC version will process all of that. I was actually heavily considering holding off for it, but a pal of mine decided to hold off so he can play the console version at my place until then. Win/win for me. Whoo.

Also, I'm a bit worried about turbo mode (if there will be any) won't that make the animations choppy?

 

[Gbraga]

to be honest the bigger issue i have with that comparison is the fact that you are on one side showing a average DmC player going through a training level showing some combo's while on the other you have someone playing the game on a pro level. It isn't exactly a fair comparison

That's exactly my issue with those comparisons as well.

I believe people who make such things do not remember at all playing for their first time and without Turbo Mode. I was playing without Turbo Mode (forgot to put it on) just this week because I got a new PC, and boy is it slow... I believe that DmC is actually faster than DMC4 without turbo mode.

It's ridiculous to compare pro DMC4 players using turbo mode and/or Debug Mode speed up (goes up to 4x), some even speed up the video a little before posting, with a regular guy playing through DmC without even having access to all the weapons and basic things like that.

And they actually think it proves something... >_>

 

[scionicspectre]

It proves nothing, which is why we should all just shut up until the demo comes out.

 

[SpawnShooter]

That's exactly my issue with those comparisons as well.

I believe people who make such things do not remember at all playing for their first time and without Turbo Mode. I was playing without Turbo Mode (forgot to put it on) just this week because I got a new PC, and boy is it slow... I believe that DmC is actually faster than DMC4 without turbo mode.

It's ridiculous to compare pro DMC4 players using turbo mode and/or Debug Mode speed up (goes up to 4x), some even speed up the video a little before posting, with a regular guy playing through DmC without even having access to all the weapons and basic things like that.

And they actually think it proves something... >_>

I'm not sure where I stand on this sort of comparison. I think the only way you can compare DmC to DMCs combat is to look at the 'pro' combos as they are the things that look most similar (both being mainly aerial based combat)
While I agree you shouldn't compare Turbo footage to non Turbo footage (there is combo footage around of non-Turbo DMC4, my footage is for example ) I think even if you compared them both at normal speeds DMC4 would appear faster for the simple matter there are more inputs happening, think about how much faster JC'ed Helm Breakers have looked in comparison to the rest of DmC's combat.
But I don't think it matters too much the skill level of the players in comparison (unless they are terrible) when you are comparing speed, especially when they market the advanced mechanics as accessible to the average competent player, I think in this case you MUST compare it to a decent DMC player as consistent combos are harder to maintain.

But I still think it is an odd thing to debate overall, you can't really argue that 60fps is technically superior to 30fps the only thing that matters is, do you care? because that's all that's important. If someone feels they can get enjoyment from this game, great. If other people feel they will be restricted or won't enjoy the feel of combat, that's completely fair enough also.
Personally, the frame rate wasn't a factor for my opinion of DmC. I think we should argue the polygon count...

 

[AngelMode]

I'll just wait until a hardcore player gets his hands on DmC, preferably one that is good with past DMCs (like Spawn here), to make any judgement on how good the gameplay can get. We only have a vague general idea of how the gameplay works, even for those who have already gotten their hands on the show floor demos only played the game for a few minutes and it was an earlier, still much more broken, version.

One thing is for sure though, you ARE going to be doing less inputs in this game compared to DMC3/4 because of how they streamlined the moves so things like launcher are just one button instead of three and so on. This makes casual players be able to perform more moves a lot faster than they did before because it makes it easier for them. On the flip side of that, you've got things like the angel glide now, which are two buttons and in DMC3/4 it was just one (noting that you were using the right style)... but then again, you never knew you even had that move in DMC3/4 unless you actually looked it up, in DmC it seems to be an integral part of the traversal aspect.

But back to the framerate... hmm. Well, I believe Halo runs at 30 fps and CoD runs at 60. If anyone here plays these games and sees the difference, then that is probably what you're gonna be seeing in DmC. But I doubt people play games that run at 60 fps only and deny to play the ones that run at 30 just because it looks a bit choppier (but still perfectly fine)... that's just a dumb excuse if you ask me.

 

[Devil Player]

I think DmC will be as good as a 60 fps game.

I seriously don't see a problem with that. I would be worried if we were talking about a port, which fortunately isn't the case.

Did anybody play Bayonetta on PS3? I still didn't and I keep hearing bad things about it. The game had a port from X-BOX 360, from 60 fps to 30fps. Many people disliked it and I really can see differences between gameplays on youtube.

However, let's not forget. Bayonetta looks crappy on PS3 NOT because it's a 30 fps version, but because it had a **** port and it wasn't even made by Platinum, but by Sega itself, if I'm correct.

So, all in all, DmC is gonna be ok, hopefully.

 

[EllDawn]

Jeez what happened to the sense of humour in this forum ?

I think it ran away, screaming for its life.

 

[Dominus]

However, let's not forget. Bayonetta looks crappy on PS3 NOT because it's a 30 fps version, but because it had a **** port and it wasn't even made by Platinum, but by Sega itself, if I'm correct.
So, all in all, DmC is gonna be ok, hopefully.

I'd say I'm worried about DmC on PS3, because UE3 engine doesn't have a good rap on that system. The Enslaved PS3 version had some noticeable frame drops in certain areas. PC version will probably be superior version like DMC4 PC version. Hopefully someone mods in Legendary Dark Knight mode.

I bet when the game releases people will feel a little silly for discussing the impact of FPS in the game for 5 pages when they see little difference in the final product.

This may not be true, in one of the articles I quoted some games this generation at 30 fps have 150 ms of input lag which is roughly over 1/10 a second. So I'll have to get my hands on it to before I judge the input lag. Plus this generation there is built in input lag in all games if you play with a wireless controller or display lag if you use certain Plasma televisions so maybe people don't notice these things as much... CRT ALL THE WAY BABY.

 

[ZeroLove]

Mortal Kombat was made with the Unreal engine and it looks great on the PS3. The Batman: Arkham Asylum/City are also made with the Unreal Engine and so is the upcoming Injustice game and they all look terrific. And they are ALL on the PS3.

 

[Dominus]

Mortal Kombat was made with the Unreal engine and it looks great on the PS3. The Batman: Arkham Asylum/City are also made with the Unreal Engine and so is the upcoming Injustice game and they all look terrific. And they are ALL on the PS3.

Yah I guess I was wrong about some developer's ability to produce good games on both consoles using UE3, but Enslaved had some noticeable differences between the 360 and PS3 versions. Guess we'll have to see if NT has taken these differences to heart :

face-off article PS3 vs 360 Enslaved

 

[ZeroLove]

Yah I guess I was wrong about some developer's ability to produce good games on both consoles using UE3, but Enslaved had some noticeable differences between the 360 and PS3 versions. Guess we'll have to see if NT has taken these differences to heart :

face-off article PS3 vs 360 Enslaved

Enslaved had rendering issues on the PS3. Monkey's and Trip's hair looked rather unrealistic and Trip's hair even had some odd animation. That's not the Unreal Engine's fault though, that was the programming NT did back then. Much has happened with engine since Enslaved was released though and hopefully NT have gotten better at programming since then. Well, from the footage we've seen of DmC so far, it does indeed seem like it.

 

[ZeroLove]

Server issues which had me double-post.

 

[Paexie]

As long as there is no game breaking or flow breaking bugs, I'm cool with it.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

We also have to remember that DmC is going to have a Locked 30fps, which prevents is supposed to prevent a lot of those framerate problems. It's actually rather proactive on their parts realizing that the environments were going to be so crazy that they wanted to make sure it didn't slow down because of it.

Heck, DMC4 ran at 60fps, but it chugged pretty bad when I fought two Mephisto next to a river :s

 

[Dominus]

We also have to remember that DmC is going to have a Locked 30fps, which prevents is supposed to prevent a lot of those framerate problems.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe locked frame rate is like a cap on frame rate, so it won't prevent low frame rate problems. They will optimize the game around this frame rate, but like every game if there's too much going on the screen you will see some dips. Recently there was a PS3 version of the game and there were some visual drops in frame rate during some cut scenes (spoiler though don't watch if you don't want a boss fight spoiled).

 

[KenKen]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe locked frame rate is like a cap on frame rate, so it won't prevent low frame rate problems. They will optimize the game around this frame rate, but like every game if there's too much going on the screen you will see some dips. Recently there was a PS3 version of the game and there were some visual drops in frame rate during some cut scenes (spoiler though don't watch if you don't want a boss fight spoiled).

It looked like they were skipping something on purpose, actually.

Could be framerate dips though.

 

[CheeseKao]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe locked frame rate is like a cap on frame rate, so it won't prevent low frame rate problems. They will optimize the game around this frame rate, but like every game if there's too much going on the screen you will see some dips. Recently there was a PS3 version of the game and there were some visual drops in frame rate during some cut scenes (spoiler though don't watch if you don't want a boss fight spoiled).

A locked framerate isn't the same as a capped framerate. If a game is locked at 30fps, that means the game will run at 30fps most of the time. If a game had a capped framerate of 60fps, that means the game CAN run at 60fps but necessarily.

Also, you can't really judge a game's frame rate through youtube. YT tends to screw frame rates up.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe locked frame rate is like a cap on frame rate, so it won't prevent low frame rate problems. They will optimize the game around this frame rate, but like every game if there's too much going on the screen you will see some dips. Recently there was a PS3 version of the game and there were some visual drops in frame rate during some cut scenes (spoiler though don't watch if you don't want a boss fight spoiled).

Then what would be the point at all of doing so? I think it's less of a cap, and more of an actual lock on the framerate so it doesn't dip. I have no clue though. I didn't even know it was possible to lock framerate until they talked about why they were doing it >.<

As for the gameplay, that was in a cutscene, and I wanna say it was probably them skipping something. Either that, or it was a hiccup in loading one cutscene to another, since it was going from Limbo to not. I dunno.

 

[Dominus]

A locked framerate isn't the same as a capped framerate. If a game is locked at 30fps, that means the game will run at 30fps most of the time. If a game had a capped framerate of 60fps, that means the game CAN run at 60fps but necessarily.

Also, you can't really judge a game's frame rate through youtube. YT tends to screw frame rates up.

Youtube only screws up 60 fps game frame rates because it runs at 30 fps. I doubt it'd screw up 30 fps streamed games. And I guess you could say frame rate lock is like a fps cap, but they optimize the game around the frame rate, and they don't physically prevent the game from going a couple frames above (like 60 fps and vysnc).

Dark Souls was locked at 30 fps but you see performance drops in the game on the xbox 360 version.

So basically from what I've read locking games at a certain frame rate isn't a magical way of getting better performance, its more for retaining visual fidelity or style (in terms of animation and flow in the game).

 

[berto]

12 days till we see a resolution to this....

 

[Paexie]

@Dominus: So you're saying that it's not a big deal because it ultimately doesn't effect gameplay in a big infuriating way?