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What Are You Thinking?

Morgan

Well-known Member
Premium
Xen-Ace 2021
Hey, anyone remember when Naruto was about controlling inner chakra to do things like walking on water and spitting fire, and the titular character's whole draw was that he was the underdog working hard to achieve his dreams, before it got derailed with reincarnation and him having a gifted bloodline and literally the most powerful parents ever and "ninja arts" turned into casually creating moons and junk?

Yeah, me neither.
 

Lain

Earthbound Immortal
Premium
Yeah, I remembered when Bleach used to have that "monster of the week" format where it's mostly "exorcism"-themed.

And then it focused on one-on-one battles with the reapers and the story stayed on Namek Soul Society for a long time.
From what I heard the first arc was supposed to go on longer with all of Ichigo's friends getting powers, until the editor told Kubo to speed it up with the introduction of the Shinigami proper since that was apparently what readers were most interested in.
 

therogis

ʙʟᴏᴏᴅ ғᴏʀ ғʀᴇᴇᴅᴏᴍ
I just wanted to let you know I have no idea what y'all been talking about since my last post :LOL:

CT: after two loooong days (yesterday, work from 7 am to 3 pm and straight after that a study-related seminar from 3 pm to 19:30 pm... and today from 7 am to 5 pm), sitting down to have a chat with some hacklab guys, taking my socks off, lifting my feet on the nearby end table and eating candy is even more appreciated than usual. :love:
 

Goldsickle

Well-known Member
From what I heard the first arc was supposed to go on longer with all of Ichigo's friends getting powers, until the editor told Kubo to speed it up with the introduction of the Shinigami proper since that was apparently what readers were most interested in.
I wonder if there's a list page that shows all the editor intervention for the Jump mangas.
Supposedly, Sasuke was also inserted into the story because an editor says that Naruto needs a rival or something?
 

V's patron

be loyal to what matters
Premium
@therogis
We are discussing shonen anime and how they changed over the years. For better or worse.

@Morgan
You should check out this video.

@Goldsickle
Check out their Tvtropes page. They usually have it under "executive meddling" or "what could've been".

Ironically most of my problems with BLEACH were from the editors than Kubo. Not everything but most of it.

@Lain In this case they made the right call. Kubo barely knew what to do with Ichigo's friends that he did empower. So I doubt he would've handled Keigo or Tatsuki well.
 

therogis

ʙʟᴏᴏᴅ ғᴏʀ ғʀᴇᴇᴅᴏᴍ
/cracks knuckles
Welp, time to get to work.

Now I am a bit worried what do you actually do for living.

---

CT: I busted someone from hard-ass copycat "researching" and I have to say that I feel sorry for the writer. Yes, they should be ashamed, but still... I feel like it's now my fault even though they were the one to copy other's writing almost word-to-word :LOL:

(I noticed that in the first place because the text didn't seem coherent enough to be written by just one writer, so I had some doubts about the origins of the text. I've seen that happen in other occasions earlier, and a significant change in style has always been a suspected plagiarism alert for me. But I didn't think they had really copied nearly everything *lol*)
 

Goldsickle

Well-known Member
Check out their Tvtropes page. They usually have it under "executive meddling" or "what could've been".
I went through the list and it's really depressing.

You have to choose between "full artistic freedom but have your works become boring" or "do as the editor says but have your works be popular".

Makes me wonder if webcomics or webtoons also have editors or is it completely the freedom of the author.
 

Xeroxis

Space Detective
Premium
/taps into mic

Dragonball went from Toriyama's gag manga to space alien nonsense and episodes-long powerups as soon as both Piccolo and Goku were revealed to be from other planets in the same episode.

/walks away
They also canonically blew up the moon twice, once by Roshi and once by Piccolo.
 

V's patron

be loyal to what matters
Premium
I went through the list and it's really depressing.

You have to choose between "full artistic freedom but have your works become boring" or "do as the editor says but have your works be popular".

Makes me wonder if webcomics or webtoons also have editors or is it completely the freedom of the author.
I assume their self-published. Self-publishing creates a lot of opportunities but a lot of difficulties. So you have to weigh your options.

@Rebel Dynasty any advice?
 

Morgan

Well-known Member
Premium
Xen-Ace 2021
I went through the list and it's really depressing.

You have to choose between "full artistic freedom but have your works become boring" or "do as the editor says but have your works be popular".

Makes me wonder if webcomics or webtoons also have editors or is it completely the freedom of the author.

I take it you've never read the Dominic Deegan webcomic and its sequel, The Legacy of Dominic Deegan?

By that I mean,
it's self published, and boy is it ever self-published.

I mean, there's a section of that spectrum of "full artistic freedom but your work is boring" and "do as the editor says and have the work become popular", and it's "full artistic freedom but your work exposes your various hang-ups and weirdly regressive neoliberal ideas on racism, sexism, politics, and your own and others' sexuality, and anyone with eyeballs reading it is under the impression that you're not well-adjusted and have been emotionally arrested since you were a teenager and watched harem anime without understanding why it was made or what made them work, and neither your art nor your writing has improved in the 20 years you've been in the business because you have no love for the craft and have a bizarre need to be given effusive praise while you metatextually jerk yourself with self-insert characters that are neither compelling nor true to life".

Trust me, you don't want to be in that part of the spectrum.

This is why authors need editors.
 

therogis

ʙʟᴏᴏᴅ ғᴏʀ ғʀᴇᴇᴅᴏᴍ
I take it you've never read the Dominic Deegan webcomic and its sequel, The Legacy of Dominic Deegan?

By that I mean,
it's self published, and boy is it ever self-published.

I mean, there's a section of that spectrum of "full artistic freedom but your work is boring" and "do as the editor says and have the work become popular", and it's "full artistic freedom but your work exposes your various hang-ups and weirdly regressive neoliberal ideas on racism, sexism, politics, and your own and others' sexuality, and anyone with eyeballs reading it is under the impression that you're not well-adjusted and have been emotionally arrested since you were a teenager and watched harem anime without understanding why it was made or what made them work, and neither your art nor your writing has improved in the 20 years you've been in the business because you have no love for the craft and have a bizarre need to be given effusive praise while you metatextually jerk yourself with self-insert characters that are neither compelling nor true to life".

Trust me, you don't want to be in that part of the spectrum.

This is why authors need editors.
And this is why self-publishing is not worth doing. I mean, there are authors who could well publish their great work by themselves. But because self-publishing is made too easy, 90 % of it is some common fanfic-level crap, that people won't pay for, that will never be read, and where the writer thinks it's a great book if they can force people kiss each other (like in a great share of fanfics lol).

This results to the situation where even great writers should not self-publish their books, because they're automatically in the very same "oh, it's self-published... won't read lol"-category.

Which is wrong also because editors and help in making it great can also be bought outside from publishers nowadays.
 

Morgan

Well-known Member
Premium
Xen-Ace 2021
This results to the situation where even great writers should not self-publish their books, because they're automatically in the very same "oh, it's self-published... won't read lol"-category.

Which is wrong also because editors and help in making it great can also be bought outside from publishers nowadays.
Or we could look at how George Lucas continually ruined Star Wars (OT and prequels) with poor edits and bad directions once he let having made a pop culture classic get to his head and no one was around to stop his bad ideas. His ex-wife did the important work in making the OT a pop phenomenon with iconic scenes. The prequels have Midichlorians, Jar-Jar, "I hate sand", and the OT gets overedited to "MACLUNKEY!" and a poor CGI dodge, an extra rock next to R2D2, and Anakin's ghost is the wrong age, because "author vision".

:cautious:
 

therogis

ʙʟᴏᴏᴅ ғᴏʀ ғʀᴇᴇᴅᴏᴍ
Background info for my CT: In our faculty there is a sort of yearbook where you can send your papers and theses if you have got good enough grade for them – generally, only the highest grade and one grade below that count. They are not automatically published though, they are carefully selected with an official referee process by some well-known scientists of the field. If your paper passes the referee process, it may be published both in the yearbook AND the widest-known national publishing platform of the legal expert articles. So... if you pass, it's a big thing. Both in terms of being selected among the "best of the very best", and in terms of getting your very first scientific article published, which is especially great if you want to be an acknowledged pro in your field of specialization some day.

Sooooo... I started thinking if my Bachelor's Thesis would have any chances for this. I wasn't sure about it's research potential and overall quality, so I asked the professor who graded it if she wants to guide me with the decision.
She did amazing work, even more than I asked, and read it all again assessing it from the viewpoint of this question. She told me it's a very expectional work to be a Bachelor level thesis (which she had stated in the original grading as well, so I suppose it's true) and told me to send it. Only thing she was worried about was that there has been some discussion about my topic after I had written it, so of course I haven't said a word about it in the thesis and it might affect the referee's approach. But it is necessarily not a bad thing because it shows the topic is discussed and of interest as we speak.
As a time-related issue, I guess it has nothing to do with the overall quality of my research writing style. So it was already a big thing for me personally to get a formal approval from the professor, regardless of the possibility of getting really published.

And now, to the "currently thinking" topic: I can't help it, I keep thinking my professor is joking and secretly laughing in her office for giving me false hope. It's a ridiculous thought, I know. My spouse gave this ridiculousness a fair wording: "So you really think your professor is gambling with her own scientific reputation and professional career, by rooting for a proposed article with her full name and title, even though she knows it's crap?" Also we discussed about how the professor knows I'm aiming for doctoral studies after Master's degree, so she definitely cannot joke about this kind of things for pedagogical and credibility reasons alone. She might even be my thesis supervisor later if I end up in her research team for the Doctor's degree.

But I can't help it :sick: I'm damn nervous to send it anywhere. It's like when I participated that writing competition last year. For WEEKS I had nightmares for being called to the awarding event just to give the judges some great laughs. (You can pretty much expect those nightmares got even more boost when I was actually invited to the said event... :LOL: and yes, some days I still find myself thinking if they really awarded me just because they felt sorry for me lmao)
I don't know if I can get the courage to send it, but at the same time I know this is a once-in-a-lifetime chance, and because of the timely discussion, the decision has to be quick...

Honestly, I feel like Johnny Fontane in The Godfather. And I need a slap as well.

 
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