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The ranting thinking thread

King Avallach

Deity of the Old World
What the hell is wrong with people, having a party about Margaret Thatcher's death?? I don't care how much you hate her, she had good intentions and nobody deserves that level of disrespect. Not even you.

The greatest evils of the 20th century were done with good intentions, it doesn't necessarily mean that people shouldn't be celebrating the fact that the despotic regimes of Hitler and Stalin came to a close. In the case of Hitler, many in Germany were dancing in the streets. I'd argue that a person's worth is to be decided by those who have experienced times as dictated by them, as the proof of a higher power doing the judging is somewhat lacking. To say that the dead inherently deserve respect for no greater reason than 'they simply do' is a fallacious and circular argument that should have no place in any age with proper reverence for reason and logic. I wish less of a big deal was made about her death because, as far as I'm concerned, she deserves to be forgotten.

Thatcherism destroyed the lives of near enough everyone living in the northern parts of the British isles, out of which an elite minority prospered obscenely, setting dangerous precedents which allowed the banks to allocate vast cash bonuses to their highest ranking executives, which, in turn, led to the financial faux pas our country ended up being mired in for far too long.

I have argued the case for justification of celebration in relation to Margaret Thatcher's demise, if you care to support your argument with a level of reason and rhetoric that the subject deserves, I will gladly listen and hopefully concede certain points while continuing to issue certain fundamental points of challenge.

Over to you
 

Angel General

Cristal, Advisor to Emperor Glaser & sky goddess
The greatest evils of the 20th century were done with good intentions, it doesn't necessarily mean that people shouldn't be celebrating the fact that the despotic regimes of Hitler and Stalin came to a close. In the case of Hitler, many in Germany were dancing in the streets. I'd argue that a person's worth is to be decided by those who have experienced times as dictated by them, as the proof of a higher power doing the judging is somewhat lacking. To say that the dead inherently deserve respect for no greater reason than 'they simply do' is a fallacious and circular argument that should have no place in any age with proper reverence for reason and logic. I wish less of a big deal was made about her death because, as far as I'm concerned, she deserves to be forgotten.
Thatcherism destroyed the lives of near enough everyone living in the northern parts of the British isles, out of which an elite minority prospered obscenely, setting dangerous precedents which allowed the banks to allocate vast cash bonuses to their highest ranking executives, which, in turn, led to the financial faux pas our country ended up being mired in for far too long.

I have argued the case for justification of celebration in relation to Margaret Thatcher's demise, if you care to support your argument with a level of reason and rhetoric that the subject deserves, I will gladly listen and hopefully concede certain points while continuing to issue certain fundamental points of challenge.

Over to you
I haven't studied this in detail. I just know that basics, it's true that she ruined a lot of people's lives and made unemployment levels rise. It's true that two recessions happened while she was in power. I can't argue that her leadership caused more loss than gain, but this still doesn't give people the right to celebrate her death. She felt that for changes to be made sacrifices also had to be made, she wasn't being malicious. So why then do people maliciously celebrate her death? An eye for an eye makes everyone blind. What good will come out of celebrating her death? None at all. It will only cause a divide between supporters and those celebrating.
I don't think that a comparison between Thatcher and Hitler is a good one. Hitler attempted genocide and caused suffering and deaths of people simply because they were Jewish, and even caused a famine for the rest of German citizens. He was also a dictator, controlling the lives of everyone. No wonder people danced in the streets when he died, they were liberated by his death.
When Thatcher died, she was no longer in power. She was an elderly woman who had long - since retired. the problems she caused were much less than the problems Hitler caused, although they still justify anger. If people hated Thatcher, they should have celebrated when she lost power and be done with it. There is no reason why they should torment her beyond the grave.
I disagree mainly with the manner of how people celebrate her death. This was in a newspaper:
"A four-year-old boy yelled 'Ding Dong! The Witch Is Dead!' to cheers from the hundreds of people who celebrated the death of Baroness Thatcher in London's Trafalgar Square yesterday."
How can this method of celebration be justified? A child is being taught that it is okay to disrespect someone who has died. This child isn't old enough to understand about Margaret Thatcher, he will simply think that yelling abuse is a good thing to do. If people are happy that Thatcher has died, why do they then have to promote this behaviour? They have gone beyond protesting to in essence spitting on her grave. They build models of her and burn them, they promote this frenzied behaviour, and for what? Nothing will be solved by it. They've overstepped the line from being justified to just taking it too far.
 

King Avallach

Deity of the Old World
I haven't studied this in detail. I just know that basics, it's true that she ruined a lot of people's lives and made unemployment levels rise. It's true that two recessions happened while she was in power. I can't argue that her leadership caused more loss than gain, but this still doesn't give people the right to celebrate her death. She felt that for changes to be made sacrifices also had to be made, she wasn't being malicious. So why then do people maliciously celebrate her death? An eye for an eye makes everyone blind. What good will come out of celebrating her death? None at all. It will only cause a divide between supporters and those celebrating.
I don't think that a comparison between Thatcher and Hitler is a good one. Hitler attempted genocide and caused suffering and deaths of people simply because they were Jewish, and even caused a famine for the rest of German citizens. He was also a dictator, controlling the lives of everyone. No wonder people danced in the streets when he died, they were liberated by his death.
When Thatcher died, she was no longer in power. She was an elderly woman who had long - since retired. the problems she caused were much less than the problems Hitler caused, although they still justify anger. If people hated Thatcher, they should have celebrated when she lost power and be done with it. There is no reason why they should torment her beyond the grave.
I disagree mainly with the manner of how people celebrate her death. This was in a newspaper:
"A four-year-old boy yelled 'Ding Dong! The Witch Is Dead!' to cheers from the hundreds of people who celebrated the death of Baroness Thatcher in London's Trafalgar Square yesterday."
How can this method of celebration be justified? A child is being taught that it is okay to disrespect someone who has died. This child isn't old enough to understand about Margaret Thatcher, he will simply think that yelling abuse is a good thing to do. If people are happy that Thatcher has died, why do they then have to promote this behaviour? They have gone beyond protesting to in essence spitting on her grave. They build models of her and burn them, they promote this frenzied behaviour, and for what? Nothing will be solved by it. They've overstepped the line from being justified to just taking it too far.

I will concede that Thatcher's acts were not necessarily akin to the atrocities committed under Hitler. However I'd advise you to reconsider before implying that the only way to ruin and destroy lives and livelihoods is to kill people. The problems under Thatcher resulted in the crippling of the unions, the miner strikes (which resulted in HER callously disallowing free school meals for the children of many of the impoverished at that time), the privatisation of the railway system (which was looked upon by majority of those who saw the transition as a turn for the worse) and the deregulation of the banks (the effects of which are still being felt).

I respectfully disagree with your sentiment relating to the newspaper item you have mentioned for reasons I hoped had been made transparent in my previous statement. The unconditional respect for the dead is a lot less universal than many would suppose, the most famous example being the dancing in the street post Hitler's death, also the youtube video of the hanging of Saddam Hussein that went viral. Respect for the dead is a common aspect of basic human decency and morality but the fact remains that Thatcher's Britain made a virtue of everything short of murder that a compassionate human being would consider actions which vilify the people committing them. I would also say that the child would likely be taught about the stances that many of the notable world leaders of recent history throughout their education. You seemed to suggest some resultant damage in the child being taught to abhor something before they are able to fully appreciate or understand it, effectively the same argument used for saying parents shouldn't try to raise their child in any particularly religious school of thought. Liberal philosophers can argue such a case both ways, resulting in often an interesting, but ultimately pointless discussion.

I would ask that you refrain from making use of pseudo-philosophical witticisms as support for your argument, noting your 'eye for an eye' argument. For a good deal of people it is simply closure in effectively the non-existence of an enemy of their way of life. As we live in a culture where freedom of speech is allowed (and actually encouraged), it is nothing short of the duty of the public to voice their opinions of recent developments in whatever form pleases them. To do otherwise would simply be unpatriotic, the censoring of either oneself or others has no place where people are being asked there opinion. The argument being it does not fall well in a free society where people are invited to voice their opinions but then being told that they can't covey the sentiment inherent in their stances on certain recent developments.


By all means disagree with what people are saying and doing in relation to this turn of events but please don't say that people can't express the opinions that they are entitled to.
 

Angel General

Cristal, Advisor to Emperor Glaser & sky goddess
I will concede that Thatcher's acts were not necessarily akin to the atrocities committed under Hitler. However I'd advise you to reconsider before implying that the only way to ruin and destroy lives and livelihoods is to kill people. The problems under Thatcher resulted in the crippling of the unions, the miner strikes (which resulted in HER callously disallowing free school meals for the children of many of the impoverished at that time), the privatisation of the railway system (which was looked upon by majority of those who saw the transition as a turn for the worse) and the deregulation of the banks (the effects of which are still being felt).

I respectfully disagree with your sentiment relating to the newspaper item you have mentioned for reasons I hoped had been made transparent in my previous statement. The unconditional respect for the dead is a lot less universal than many would suppose, the most famous example being the dancing in the street post Hitler's death, also the youtube video of the hanging of Saddam Hussein that went viral. Respect for the dead is a common aspect of basic human decency and morality but the fact remains that Thatcher's Britain made a virtue of everything short of murder that a compassionate human being would consider actions which vilify the people committing them. I would also say that the child would likely be taught about the stances that many of the notable world leaders of recent history throughout their education. You seemed to suggest some resultant damage in the child being taught to abhor something before they are able to fully appreciate or understand it, effectively the same argument used for saying parents shouldn't try to raise their child in any particularly religious school of thought. Liberal philosophers can argue such a case both ways, resulting in often an interesting, but ultimately pointless discussion.

I would ask that you refrain from making use of pseudo-philosophical witticisms as support for your argument, noting your 'eye for an eye' argument. For a good deal of people it is simply closure in effectively the non-existence of an enemy of their way of life. As we live in a culture where freedom of speech is allowed (and actually encouraged), it is nothing short of the duty of the public to voice their opinions of recent developments in whatever form pleases them. To do otherwise would simply be unpatriotic, the censoring of either oneself or others has no place where people are being asked there opinion. The argument being it does not fall well in a free society where people are invited to voice their opinions but then being told that they can't covey the sentiment inherent in their stances on certain recent developments.


By all means disagree with what people are saying and doing in relation to this turn of events but please don't say that people can't express the opinions that they are entitled to.
By saying: "They have gone beyond protesting to essentially spitting on her grave," I meant that while it's fine for them to express their opinions and anger, their protests have become mindless attacks on her more than anything else. Fuelled by the notion of a, "Celebration," even people who didn't experience the troubles she put others through or have any background knowledge of the situation are just joining in for what they consider fun or excitement.
This doesn't discount the fact that most people celebrating understand the situation, though. My original comment just conveys that I disgree with the way they are expressing their opinions about her. By all means, people can hate her and share their opinion, but I disagree that it is necessary to make a joyous demonstration about it. The fact that Thatcher has died has no impact on their lives whatsoever, all these people are happy about is the fact that her life is over. What is there to celebrate about? If they were protesting and trying to change the law to somehow improve their lives, then a demonstration is justified. But to just walk around the streets demonstrating how much they hate someone and acting out setting fire to them is both pointless and too extreme. Be aware that this is my opinion, and I'm sure others don't share it.
I can't effectively argue my opinion because it suggests that people should restrain themselves from demonstrating against Thatcher, while the general view is that people can express themselves freely. I criticise the celebration because I see it as cruel, just as I would if it was a family member who had died, and there were people celebrating this. To my mind, this outburst of hatred is both shocking and completely blown out of proportion. The issue has been made out to be of huge importance, when in actual fact it has no affect on society.
 

Shadow

the horror was for love
Premium
Hasn't there been enough sadness and angst today without people pointing fingers and calling names? Why does everyone have to start yelling and complaining in a tragedy? The people to blame are the ones that caused the tragedy, not everyone else. Are human beings as a whole so incapable of putting their sh*t aside for one f*cking night that everywhere I look the wrong people are getting blamed and called out and complained about? What about the families and the people injured, huh? Do they want to sit and see the images of them being injured over and over again? Do they want to see people bicker and squabble over pointless stuff? No. The families was to make sure their loved ones are all right. And I, for one, have had enough of people b*tching for one night, thank you very much, that the next person I see doing it, I'll probably tear a new one.

Let's just spend one night praying for the people who are hurt and paying our respects to the dead. Or, internet, is that too much to ask for?
 

aoshi

Well-known Member
Wow, jus blame your incompetence and lack of coherence on rest of forums does so. Well the rest of the forums does not troll on and get personal on arguments like you do. Anyways you fail miserably in any argument you make and how you make it. F*ck you and ignored.
 

Vergil'sBitch

I am Nero's Mom & Obsessed fan girl
Premium
Righty, that's some people deleted from Twitter... (they don't know me, so it doesn't matter.)
*computer mouse falls on the floor* I swear this thing is alive.

Look mum, I have my opinion and you have yours.... if he didn't think that he'd screw another relationship up, he would've gone years ago. I was just a convenient reason for him to stay so he would have a plan to fall back on when the sh*t hit the fan. He couldn't give a damn about me or you, we're just things to control...
 

Britt690

Gabriel Reyes needs to eat me.
Why, why, WHY are people so obsessed with how a character fits into the "normal" world? Do you honestly think that they would care if people laughed at them? Like honestly, do you really think they would give two sh*ts what you thought of their outfit? Same thing with people who wear the goth/steampunk/pin-up fashions. Don't think they would change their looks just because a few people laughed at them:| .
 

aoshi

Well-known Member
Wow, removing the ranking system does not affect DMC???????Sure we can remove collecting orbs, proud souls and upgrade system as well and jus play with limited moves with zero replay value jus with story mode. I mean WTF is wrong with you. Seriously, You have zero clue as to wat DMC games are.
 

Ryuuou

The King Of Chinese Dragons
Premium
Supporter 2014
What the hell is wrong with people, having a party about Margaret Thatcher's death?? I don't care how much you hate her, she had good intentions and nobody deserves that level of disrespect. Not even you.

Respect to the dead anyway. I am not actively hating Hitler since he is gone anyway either...
 

Chimera Khaos

Hades Leading General Commander
RAGE FACE! GAH, IM ABSOLUTELY ****ED AT WHOEVER THE HELL KEEPS ****ING WITH MY FACEBOOK PROFILE! I GO TO CHECK ONE MESSAGE AND IT SAYS MY ACCOUNT IS INACTIVE! GAHHHHHHHH *throws chair, breaks everything, becomes the next Godzillla*
 

aoshi

Well-known Member
Okay, I have been playing DMC 4 for a while now. I play games to pull off tricks but this game is so f*cked up that everytime i go airborne all f*ck goes loose and i die. Add to that the lethargical aerial rave of rebellion which is so slow compared to darkslayer aerial , i always miss out the third hit which leaves me hanging in air. F*ck swordmaster and gunslinger. Jus have royal guard, darkslayer and trickster. If i had been humanly possible to pull of aerial rave, i would have enhanced its performance by now rather than being lethargic. F*ck, F*ck,F*ck rebellion swordmaster aerial rave.
 
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