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The odd morality.

Slacri

Well-known Member
hmmmm i will give him some credit but i feel like he wanted dante to just go apeshit on him....... and if he did he will probably go apeshit on the fact that he put kats life in danger more than the baby killing thing....
Well I wouldn't want Dante to try to murder Vergil or anything. Maybe a scene where Dante has an argument with Vergil over it before deciding it's not worth it right now or getting interrupted or something. People in this thread have said Dante didn't have time to confront Vergil on it, but later he's carelessly making jokes with Vergil and discussing his life story.

I think the excuse of Dante looking at the bigger picture is good if that was actually what happened.
 

AlchemistFromEden

Well-known Member
hmmmm i will give him some credit but i feel like he wanted dante to just go apeshit on him....... and if he did he will probably go apeshit on the fact that he put kats life in danger more than the baby killing thing....
yeah, in that cutscene there is literally no time for drawn out anime style conflict between protagonists, such as.......
 

Slacri

Well-known Member
yeah, in that cutscene there is literally no time for drawn out anime style conflict between protagonists, such as.......
I never said Dante should do it in the middle of the gun fight, no. But maybe instead of telling Vergil what he does in his free time he could've brought it up then.
 

Shin Muramasa

Metallic Stranger
I never said Dante should do it in the middle of the gun fight, no. But maybe instead of telling Vergil what he does in his free time he could've brought it up then.
I haven't played the game, but did Dante and Vergil even have any free time after that incident?
 

Slacri

Well-known Member
I haven't played the game, but did Dante and Vergil even have any free time after that incident?
They have times to talk. There's a point later where they've over a comm link or something and Dante asks Vergil how he got his hacking skill and they have a good 5 minute conversation after that. Then they go on to joke about who's handsomer, more intelligent and who has the larger John Thomas.
 

Loopy

Devil hunter in training
I haven't played the game, but did Dante and Vergil even have any free time after that incident?
After that it was getting out of there quickly because Mundus was destroying the city. Then they were making a plan to get inside Silver Sacks office to confront Mundus. Then he goes all transformers robot, smashes the city a bit more, then Dante and Vergil fall out. Not much time, except one part when tring to get into Mundu's office using the generators.
 

Vezild

Taking Back Lordran One Boss At a Time
But it is there. The game made the conflict itself and never elaborated on it. It's a characterization issue, and the problem is that Dante is doing these horrible things or letting them slip by and then he's played up as a hero. And what you described is poorly written action. Good action has conflicts, and good action isn't so simple. I'm infinitely more invested in an action scene if there's more complex things going on about it.

You're the one creating the conflict, and that's the problem. You're looking too much into it. You like complexity. DmC is not complex. To enjoy the story, you actually have to tune your brain a little lower. You want complicated reasons for your "horrible" actions, go play Assassins Creed or Dark Souls. But, here, you're just making up problems.

It seems like you want all your action to be on the level of Transformers 2 or something.
When it comes to Devil May Cry, yeah, pretty much. I don't need much of a reason to kill the demon king and all of his spawn and minions. It's one of those take or leave it things.

So he is a jaded psychopath then?
Dude, again, you're creating conflicts that really don't exist.
Th
 

AlchemistFromEden

Well-known Member
How about you actually respond to my points rather than resorting to logical fallacies of trying to attack me instead of my argument?
It is lazy, and the fact that the previous games didn't have the best writing doesn't make this game any better. At least they had a consistent fun action cheesy tone.
-each character having a backstory, (regardless of whether YOU think its good or not)
-characters being flawed and not archetypically perfect or complete indefinitely likeable in every way shape or form due to the a lack of flaws, depth, or their personalities are one dimensional
-the story not having plotholes with every scene being relevant other than demons using limbo
-discussions like this thread and many other threads being possible because the story has many things to interpret such as subtle and direct actions by characters
if this is lazy writing then you probably have never written a story in your life that isn't fanfiction, no one is attacking you
 

Shin Muramasa

Metallic Stranger
They have times to talk. There's a point later where they've over a comm link or something and Dante asks Vergil how he got his hacking skill and they have a good 5 minute conversation after that. Then they go on to joke about who's handsomer, more intelligent and who has the larger John Thomas.
Not exactly a lot of free time though. Thinking on that, Dante and Vergil did not talk to each other during the end fight did they? Only before and after, but this could have various opinions; some people prefer fights without talking, others do.

Maybe Dante's a little clever as well. Maybe he's playing along with Vergil after that incident and watching his every move while pretending to still be on his side. Then the end fight happens. All speculation here.
 

Slacri

Well-known Member
I don't want some vast overarching messages of the wrongness of my actions. I'm saying that the game shouldn't bring up things like this and then completely ignore it. Otherwise there's no point of it. Look at DMC3 or 4. It was a pretty poor plot line with some bad writing and goofy moments but it was tonally consistent and didn't bring up serious matters like this. At no point did say Nero just watch as Dante blew up a school full of children or something and then just ignore it.

I'm not making up problems because this issue is in the game and it shows how sloppy Dante is characterized, and for a game that's marketed heavily on its story this is an issue. Not only is it tonally inconsistent with the franchise and even within itself its poor writing.
 

DragonMaster2010

Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
No he didn't. He never questions Vergil about it later. It's never even brought up again.

Oh okay, questioning Vergil about him murdering a bunch of innocent people and a pregnant demon isn't important enough. But joking about the size of your genitalia and talking about how much you get laid to keep stress off? That's important business people!

I didn't say anything about d*ck size, I said fighting a demon king. Which actually is a bit more important AT THE MOMENT then questioning your brother of his evil moments while millions are dying.
 

Vezild

Taking Back Lordran One Boss At a Time
Not exactly a lot of free time though. Thinking on that, Dante and Vergil did not talk to each other during the end fight did they? Only before and after, but this could have various opinions; some people prefer fights without talking, others do.

Maybe Dante's a little clever as well. Maybe he's playing along with Vergil after that incident and watching his every move while pretending to still be on his side. Then the end fight happens. All speculation here.
Nah, Dante looked as shocked as ever when Vergil revealed his plan. I'm just thinking that after that "rifle abortion", Dante just thought it was a non-issue...you know, since they're alive. And Mundus is still alive.
 

TerrorA

Don't mess with a Mage, bitch.
During the raid on Mundas.

Dante and Vergil talked, argued, and did some final character development moments so Vergil's betrayal would hurt even more.
 

Slacri

Well-known Member
-each character having a backstory, (regardless of whether YOU think its good or not)
Not necesarily a good thing. Having a bad backstory isn't better than a vague one.
-characters being flawed and not archetypically perfect or complete indefinitely likeable in every way shape or form due to the a lack of flaws, depth, or their personalities are one dimensional
These flaws are never elaborated on and at no point does the story make a point of it. So it's hardly an oh so deep character flaw.
-the story not having plotholes with every scene being relevant other than demons using limbo
What massive plot holes did 3 or 4 have? Even then, not having plot holes isn't some landmark feat. Some amazing stories have plot holes.
-discussions like this thread and many other threads being possible because the story has many things to interpret such as subtle and direct actions by characters
Except this isn't subtle.
if this is lazy writing then you probably have never written a story in your life that isn't fanfiction, no one is attacking you
No, I haven't written a story. But I don't need to be a chef to know that my food tastes bad. You did attack me, you tried to discredit me in an attempt to discredit my argument by writing me off as "oh he's just another anti hater."

Your statement is quite ironic because much of DmC plays out like a fanfiction.
 

Loopy

Devil hunter in training
At no point did say Nero just watch as Dante blew up a school full of children or something and then just ignore it.
Nero watches as Dante kills the DMC4 version of The Pope and Order of the sword guards, sure Nero goes after Dante, but then they team up and Nero kills Sanctus again.
Beesides, Nero and the whole Kyrie love plot, to quote you was
Not only is it tonally inconsistent with the franchise and even within itself its poor writing.
 

Slacri

Well-known Member
I didn't say anything about d*ck size, I said fighting a demon king. Which actually is a bit more important AT THE MOMENT then questioning your brother of his evil moments while millions are dying.
You said that they didn't have time to talk about the issue, but they have time to talk about dick size?
Dante thought it was a non issue[/spoiler]
And that is the issue.
 

Vezild

Taking Back Lordran One Boss At a Time
I don't want some vast overarching messages of the wrongness of my actions. I'm saying that the game shouldn't bring up things like this and then completely ignore it. Otherwise there's no point of it. Look at DMC3 or 4. It was a pretty poor plot line with some bad writing and goofy moments but it was tonally consistent and didn't bring up serious matters like this. At no point did say Nero just watch as Dante blew up a school full of children or something and then just ignore it.

I'm not making up problems because this issue is in the game and it shows how sloppy Dante is characterized, and for a game that's marketed heavily on its story this is an issue. Not only is it tonally inconsistent with the franchise and even within itself its poor writing.
No dude, you're making up problems. You're comparing the killing of SWAT members--guys with guns who are trained to kill and do all that dirty work--to the blowing up of a schoolyard.
Your argument would be valid if Dante asked Vergil why did he do that and actually showed some conflict with it. But he didn't, so it is up to YOU--yes you, not the writer, he did his job--to understand that it is a non-issue. Especially, again, because just an hour ago that crazy demon lady tried to murder you in a ploy to help the demon king who killed your mother and exiled your father and has been hunting you down all your life.
 

Loopy

Devil hunter in training
You said that they didn't have time to talk about the issue, but they have time to talk about **** size?
They didn't have a whole talk about who had a bigger one. It was one passing comment from Vergil after a bit of brotherly joking.
 

Slacri

Well-known Member
Nero watches as Dante kills the DMC4 version of The Pope and Order of the sword guards, sure Nero goes after Dante, but then they team up and Nero kills Sanctus again.
Yes and he immediately reacts with shock and then attacks Dante. He only later teams up with him because you know, he figures out Santus is evil and kidnapped his girl.
Beesides, Nero and the whole Kyrie love plot, to quote you was
How was the love plot inconsistent really? I'll be the first to admit DMC4's plot is poorly put together, and Kyrie's character is underwritten. Nero's rage scenes were tonally off, but not nearly as tonally off as demon abortion.
 
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