The odd morality.

[Slacri]

This is Mundus' spawn we are talking about. Mundus who killed Eva and ate her heart. Mundus who has been in power for 9,000 years. I doubt the 'love of a good woman' would turn him 'good'. He doesn't love Lilith. She is a tool to him.

I'm not debating whether Mundus is good. But since when does a parent being evil mean the child is evil? Mundus wouldn't of raised the child, he would've been dead.

Whya re you so bothered?

I'm not that bothered. I don't wake up in cold sweats about it or anything. Again I'm just pointing out how this shows how poorly the game's writing is with lazy characterization.

 

[Vezild]

Okay, I'll compare it to killing a bunch of swat guys. Nero at no point watches Dante killing innocent people doing their jobs, Dante only killed generic evil demons.

Oh...my...gosh. Okay let's start this again. Now, Mundas is the Demon King. Vergil wants Mundas dead. Dante wants him dead to for revenge, and also for humanity's sake. At one point, Dante and Vergil kill Mundas's only heir. You know, so they won't have to do that all over again. The SWAT was there and opened fire. Yes, they were doing their job. But Dante and Vergil had theirs and they can't die. First off, who the hell's gonna kill Mundas then? What would be the point? Would you rather he just not shoot? Get shot to death and that's that? See, that also creates the second part of my problem with your strange argument: now, what the hell's an action story where the protagonist dies halfway through?

This issue is that they presented over the top and grotesque scene and never elaborated on it at all. They shouldn't have done it if they weren't prepared to do any of it.
I'm not going to go on and on about what is grotesque and "over the top" to me, but, again, what issue? You're just pointing out something that isn't there. That's like wearing an aluminum foil cap because you think aliens are reading your brain.

Yes, it's a non issue because the writers were too lazy to write it. Killing Lilith isn't really a big deal, killing the baby and a bunch of swat members doing this job? Yeah that's kind of a big deal.
I guess I should re-iterate what I said up top. Demon mommy, anti-christ, faceless SWAT team members who were in the way. They were doing their job, yes, but in the grand scheme of things, what's better? Mundus or Dante dying?

And I'm going to say it again: You want a complicated story with morals and all those good mental tidbits in them? Go read a book or play The Witcher. You're really wasting your time analyzing Devil May Cry (read: action game) if you're going to bring these pointless issues up. Either that, or you're just not mature enough to understand when and where certain issues can actually exist.
Not all things can exist in hybrid genres. See, Devil May Cry is something like a B-movie action movie. It's supposed to bring you intense scenes of action with some story. A good story (and DmC has one, but that's a matter of opinion) is just a plus. Something more complicated, and you got a hybrid of drama and action (see: Assassin's Creed, Dark Souls, the Witcher, Dishonored), where the action and the drama both take an equal precedence.

And let me just add this: not every hero you see is going to be perfect like your precious old Dante. I don't know who called him an anti-hero, but he obviously isn't. New Dante over there, he's an anti-hero, and he does things for reasons other than "justice". Think about that instead of calling the writers lazy--you know, since you seem to love thinking.

 

[Paexie]

Probably inherently evil? Again, Sparda left Mundus and settled alone with his family. What a dastardly man. The very fact that Sparda did that means the demon kid could too.

Dude, under Mundus' parenting.... I don't think so. He would seal it away just like with Sparda.

 

[AlchemistFromEden]

then how was it ok for Lilith to use her child as a weapon allowed that same child to get beat down shot at and sliced up

this right here, WHY DOES EVERYONE WHO COMPLAINS ABOUT THE "DEMON ABORTION" MYSTERIOUSLY FORGET ABOUT THIS SCENE/BOSS FIGHT or ACT LIKE IT NEVER HAPPENED

this happened, why is this ok? but finishing the baby off isn't ok, if it instinctively attacks dante, why would it have suddenly turned good at a later point in life especially with it being the son of Mundus

 

[Loopy]

I'm not debating whether Mundus is good. But since when does a parent being evil mean the child is evil? Mundus wouldn't of raised the child, he would've been dead.

I'm not that bothered. I don't wake up in cold sweats about it or anything. Again I'm just pointing out how this shows how poorly the game's writing is with lazy characterization.

No, the kid would have been the head of Silver Sacks, taking over humanity just like his Dad. Have you seen the amount of serial killers who had dysfunctioal parents and family?

 

[KaizenShio]

This is Mundus' spawn we are talking about. Mundus who killed Eva and ate her heart. Mundus who has been in power for 9,000 years. I doubt the 'love of a good woman' would turn him 'good'. He doesn't love Lilith. She is a tool to him.
Whya re you so bothered?

And ultimately tried to kill dante in the past 24 hrs I am pretty sure they didnt make up after that

 

[Loopy]

I'm not that bothered. I don't wake up in cold sweats about it or anything. Again I'm just pointing out how this shows how poorly the game's writing is with lazy characterization.

If you're not bothered, why do you say you want the demon baby to live, that you would rather it was raised by an evil demon like Mundus and that it was abortion?

 

[Slacri]

And I'm going to say it again: You want a complicated story with morals and all those good mental tidbits in them? Go read a book or play The Witcher. You're really wasting your time analyzing Devil May Cry (read: action game) if you're going to bring these pointless issues up. Either that, or you're just not mature enough to understand when and where certain issues can actually exist.

No, I want a game to stay tonally consistent and not have very strange and morally questioning things our heroes do and then forget it. You see, I'm not complaining that DMC3 or DMC4 was some heathen because well, he never just let someone gun down a pregnant demon or something stupid. You act as if I'm constructing some deep analysis when this isn't deep at all, it just shows awful writing.

And let me just add this: not every hero you see is going to be perfect like your precious old Dante. I don't know who called him an anti-hero, but he obviously isn't. New Dante over there, he's an anti-hero, and he does things for reasons other than "justice". Think about that instead of calling the writers lazy--you know, since you seem to love thinking.

I don't want a perfect hero. I'm perfectly fine with a flawed protagonist. I really enjoyed Spec: Ops the Line. You know why? Because the flaws were apart of the character and the plot made a point of bringing up those flaws. New Dante isn't some flawed interesting character. He's just badly written.

 

[Vezild]

Ok, what are the odds the baby turns good. Yeah, he might. So they'd have to wait 20 years for that baby (the anti-christ, mind you) to be about their age. Okay...who's the mom? Lilith...ok, bad start right there... Okay, let's say that baby turns good. Great, he does. Now let's say he doesn't...damn. DmC2: Rewind DmC It Never Happened, anyone?
See, I don't think, if I were in Dante's boots, I'd want to take the chance.

 

[Slacri]

If you're not bothered, why do you say you want the demon baby to live,

. I don't. It's not as if I like to hope demon baby is a doctor or something. The only point I'm making with the demon baby is that it shows how poorly Dante is written.

That you would rather it was raised by an evil demon like Mundus and that it was abortion?

For one, Mundus would have been dead before he could raise it. Second, what would you call killing an unborn fetus? I guess like you said it's technically born so it's infanticide.

 

[Slacri]

Ok, what are the odds the baby turns good. Yeah, he might. So they'd have to wait 20 years for that baby (the anti-christ, mind you) to be about their age. Okay...who's the mom? Lilith...ok, bad start right there... Okay, let's say that baby turns good. Great, he does. Now let's say he doesn't...damn. DmC2: Rewind DmC It Never Happened, anyone?
See, I don't think, if I were in Dante's boots, I'd want to take the chance.

Oh okay, so Dante isn't that sort of risk taker. But in the end he lets Vergil leave even after Vergil tried to kill him and let it be known he wants to take over the world. So it's perfectly fine to kill someone on the basis that you don't like their parents and that maybe they might do something in the future, but killing someone who just tried to kill you and is going to try to take over the world isn't worth it.

Again, lazy writing.

 

[KaizenShio]

No, I want a game to stay tonally consistent and not have very strange and morally questioning things our heroes do and then forget it. You see, I'm not complaining that DMC3 or DMC4 was some heathen because well, he never just let someone gun down a pregnant demon or something stupid. You act as if I'm constructing some deep analysis when this isn't deep at all, it just shows awful writing.

I don't want a perfect hero. I'm perfectly fine with a flawed protagonist. I really enjoyed Spec: Ops the Line. You know why? Because the flaws were apart of the character and the plot made a point of bringing up those flaws. New Dante isn't some flawed interesting character. He's just badly written.

Ok, what are the odds the baby turns good. Yeah, he might. So they'd have to wait 20 years for that baby (the anti-christ, mind you) to be about their age. Okay...who's the mom? Lilith...ok, bad start right there... Okay, let's say that baby turns good. Great, he does. Now let's say he doesn't...damn. DmC2: Rewind DmC It Never Happened, anyone?
See, I don't think, if I were in Dante's boots, I'd want to take the chance.

Yo I could have sworn i said this earlier LMAO

 

[AlchemistFromEden]

In your opinion. So just because Dante didn't sit and have tea with Vergil and talk to him about why he killed Lilith WHILE THE CITY WAS BEING DESTROYED BY A POWERFUL DEMON KING WHO WAS ****ED OFF TO NO AMMOUNT, it's considered bad writing?

Besides, how could they just bring that conversation up all of a sudden while trying to break into Mundus's office?

Vergil: Okay Dante. It's time we try to break into Mundus's layer. I'll handle the security sectors, while you unlock the keys to it. We should be able to pry it open if we--"

Dante: "Hey Vergil, why did you shoot Lilith and her baby?"

Vergil: "You wanna talk about this now?!":blink:

THANK YOU, seriously its like he wants an anime style moral speech to replace the dialogue in the game which is (surprisingly) realistic

 

[Paexie]

I'm not saying it's bad he got him angry. I'm saying it's bad he never questioned Vergil on it.

Are they? What about the Dreamrunners shows this? Even so Mundus had a bunch of power and was even threatening the President. I doubt a SWAT team member would be able to say no to him.

Dreamrunners where once human. I'm just saying they could be collaborators. Just greedy/power hungry people in general.

I think you are lingering too hard on the "Dante didn't question Vergil". He did. Silently. That and the fact that he would put good human lives for his own sake already had him doubting everything. What difference would it make if he did talk to him? Could he really question it when he can pretty much figure it out: revenge. Just like Mundus told him. At least until Vergil reveals it's more than that.

 

[Loopy]

For one, Mundus would have been dead before he could raise it. Second, what would you call killing an unborn fetus? I guess like you said it's technically born so it's infanticide.

So, you are bothered. You want to classify something fake to push a real life agenda.

The only point I'm making with the demon baby is that it shows how poorly Dante is written.

I really don't think that's what you're trying to prove at all.You just keep pushing the abortion/ infanticide issue.

. I don't. It's not as if I like to hope demon baby is a doctor or something.

But if it was a human baby, you'd say it could have the potential to be a doctor?

This topic is getting too derailed.

 

[KaizenShio]

Oh okay, so Dante isn't that sort of risk taker. But in the end he lets Vergil leave even after Vergil tried to kill him and let it be known he wants to take over the world. So it's perfectly fine to kill someone on the basis that you don't like their parents and that maybe they might do something in the future, but killing someone who just tried to kill you and is going to try to take over the world isn't worth it.

Again, lazy writing.

and ALSO you keep wanting to leave this out... THe baby in the last 24 hours tried to kill you

 

[Vezild]

No, I want a game to stay tonally consistent and not have very strange and morally questioning things our heroes do and then forget it. You see, I'm not complaining that DMC3 or DMC4 was some heathen because well, he never just let someone gun down a pregnant demon or something stupid. You act as if I'm constructing some deep analysis when this isn't deep at all, it just shows awful writing.

I don't want a perfect hero. I'm perfectly fine with a flawed protagonist. I really enjoyed Spec: Ops the Line. You know why? Because the flaws were apart of the character and the plot made a point of bringing up those flaws. New Dante isn't some flawed interesting character. He's just badly written.

You are constructing a too-deep analysis. Now, I can't ask you what age you are for the sake of privacy and respect, but I will guess you are in high-school...possibly a junior or senior. You're using rhetoric wrong. Take a creative writing class first, and then maybe you can talk about "tonal correctness". And after that, learn where and when certain tones and themes can be used.

But for now, let me just say, thank goodness you're not a writer in any of my games or movies.

 

[Slacri]

THANK YOU, seriously its like he wants an anime style moral speech to replace the dialogue in the game which is (surprisingly) realistic

How is not bringing up such a glaring moral issue realistic? And yes, I don't see how Dante and Vergil explaining what they do in their free time is any less time wasting than explaining why Vergil shot some pregnant demon.

 

[Loopy]

Now, I can't ask you what age you are for the sake of privacy

Says 22 on the profile

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Yes I know, but they don't know their in a video game.

What does that have to do with the game? They're characters, not people getting punkd on tv.

Probably inherently evil? Again, Sparda left Mundus and settled alone with his family. What a dastardly man. The very fact that Sparda did that means the demon kid could too.

How the hell would a baby know right from wrong right after being born? Especially a demon baby who only knows destruction, and his mother?

 

[Vezild]

pregnant demon.