The odd morality.

[KaizenShio]

I sincerely doubt Lilith would have done anything. She was just Mundus' pawn and wasn't really much of an independent thinker. She was pretty terrified to be honest. Not to mention the fact that they could have just taken the baby from her. Hell, Dante lets Vergil do despite the fact that he tried to just murder him and let on about his plans to take over the world.

It's pretty funny when the supposed bad guy in this game is the one who keeps his word.

Hmm take the baby from her? that thing should be out of her already...... and its not a matter of she going to do anything when a child ask.... "Hey what was my dad like" shes is going to say nothing but good things about mundus then the child is going to ask what happened Blah blah blah insert hatred here blah blah time elapse blah blah elaborate plan for revenge..... Theres a saying a woman worst weapon is her mouth

 

[Loopy]

The very fact that they exist proves demons can be good.

Sparda was shown to be concerned for his family, but unlike DMC classic Sparda, he went along with Mundus' plan to take over the human world. The only reason he changed was because of Eva. But just because he fell for her does not mean he suddenly cares about humans.
As for Phineas, he is the one who tells Dante 'Kill Lilith, kill the child'. He is the one who gives Dante the information and wants Lilith and the child dead as revenge to Mundus for taking his eye and putting him in prison. Phineas wants revenge and sees Dante as the one who can get that for him. He's not good. He's serving his own agenda.

And Dante and Vergil would have dethroned Mundus before the baby was even born.

This is Vergil we're talking about. The same Vergil who disregards Kat and lets her be taken by SWAT teams; who lets The Order be killed without a thought, who shoots Lilith because for him it is the greater good of mankind at stake. He is no better than Mundus. He wants to rule humans just as much.
Besides, his hatred for what Mundus did to his family, how he ripped out Eva's heart and sent his Dad away for eternal torture justifies the killing to him. Like, you killed our family, we kill yours.

t's not like they couldn't have found a better home for it.

Dante got put in foster homes which beat him and tortured him. Didn't turn out so well for him. No idea where they could send a huge demon baby. It's not like it could be disguised or anything.
Besides, perhaps the spawn was inherently evil. No chance for good. Let's face it, Mundus or Lilith did not want a family like we picture family. Lilith saw the baby as a meal ticket for power, and Mundus saw the baby as an heir to his evil empire. It would have been born into a loveless relationshup with two screwed up parents who didn't really care about the baby or each other.

 

[Vezild]

It was just a strange seem and grotesque for no reason. It also raises questions about Dante's morality. After Vergil does it he reacts as if Vergil just spilled a soda all over his nice new shirt. The idea that our hero is more likely to go back on their word than the villain also raises eyebrows. Mundus was keeping his end of the bargain, but in return Dante and Vergil lay down some demon bullet abortion.

You could say "HEY! But it's a demon so it doesn't matter!" But there are good demons in the DmC universe and the old universe. Sparda and Phineas, so if they exist there's probably more and the baby had complete potential to actually be good. There's 3 "good" demons if you count Dante.

This used to be a fun series about a guy who ate pizza, rode motorcycles up 90 degree angles and beat demons to death with it. Now it's about laying down some rifle abortions from the character who previously had a code against even using guns.

Let's also not forget that the SWAT team was presumably human and they just watched Vergil gun down some women and her baby and were completely in their rights to open fire. And Vergil and Dante gun them down too.

Let's also not forget that t he city is now in ruin, with probably many casualties to do Mundus' ragefit from Vergil shooting down his unborn son. Dante even passes by cars falling into debris that will probably kill their passengers and doesn't care at all.

Our hero, ladies and gentlemen.

And let us not forget that all of this was, in fact, Vergil's fault. Vergil was the one who ruined the transaction (and Dante did react with angry confusion), revealed that his big plan was to replace Mundus, and even wanted to abandon Kat when she proved useless. And he duped Dante into it all along.
Oh, by the by, Vergil and Dante would have totally let themselves get shot because they just crossed the DEMON king--you know, lord of all evil that they were trying to kill. Does that make any sense?
The only thing I can agree on is that the city was ruined. But, dammit, Phineas warned Dante already. Besides, it's Vergil's fault.

 

[Slacri]

And let us not forget that all of this was, in fact, Vergil's fault. Vergil was the one who ruined the transaction (and Dante did react with angry confusion)

But Dante didn't care. Normally any morally just person after watching someone you knew do some abhorrent act would question them heavily on it afterwards. Again the only thing Dante does is react with initial shock as if Vergil spilled his soda on Dante's new shirt and then its never mentioned again really. In fact Dante only questions Vergil when it involves his girlfriend Kat. I think he was just annoyed that Kat was in danger more so.

Oh, by the by, Vergil and Dante would have totally let themselves get shot because they just crossed the DEMON king--you know, lord of all evil that they were trying to kill. Does that make any sense?

What? It's not as if these random human SWAT members doing their job would have made a different if they let them live. Seriously, these cops just watched this guy shoot a pregnant woman in his eyes and the guy is armed still. Any rational cop opens fire back. So not only are they cool with Lilith murdering they also just shoot random innocent people.

The only thing I can agree on is that the city was ruined. But, dammit, Phineas warned Dante already. Besides, it's Vergil's fault.

But Dante didn't care is the issue.

 

[KaizenShio]

To be honest I like the way vegil is going i want this dude to be ruthless in later installments

 

[Slacri]

Sparda was shown to be concerned for his family, but unlike DMC classic Sparda, he went along with Mundus' plan to take over the human world. The only reason he changed was because of Eva. But just because he fell for her does not mean he suddenly cares about humans.

At first, but then he fell in love with an angel and ditched Mundus. The demon didn't have to care about humans to not be evil. Sparda had no desire to eradicate the human race. He just wanted to be with his wife.

As for Phineas, he is the one who tells Dante 'Kill Lilith, kill the child'. He is the one who gives Dante the information and wants Lilith and the child dead as revenge to Mundus for taking his eye and putting him in prison. Phineas wants revenge and sees Dante as the one who can get that for him. He's not good. He's serving his own agenda.

He helps Dante and is clearly not some evil overlord. While yes Phineas is questionable he shows that demons have their own motivations and aren't that much unlike humans.

This is Vergil we're talking about. The same Vergil who disregards Kat and lets her be taken by SWAT teams; who lets The Order be killed without a thought, who shoots Lilith because for him it is the greater good of mankind at stake. He is no better than Mundus. He wants to rule humans just as much.

I'm not saying it's wrong for Vergil to do it. It's wrong that Dante didn't question it other than initial shock.

Besides, his hatred for what Mundus did to his family, how he ripped out Eva's heart and sent his Dad away for eternal torture justifies the killing to him. Like, you killed our family, we kill yours.

Do you really think that's justifiable at all? If Dante does then my point is made for me.

Dante got put in foster homes which beat him and tortured him. Didn't turn out so well for him. No idea where they could send a huge demon baby. It's not like it could be disguised or anything.

Well for one I doubt it'd have to stay huge. Mundus and Lilith both had human forms so there's no real the baby wouldn't. And murdering someone because you don't want to deal with the hassle of caring for them isn't good either.

Besides, perhaps the spawn was inherently evil. No chance for good. Let's face it, Mundus or Lilith did not want a family like we picture family. Lilith saw the baby as a meal ticket for power, and Mundus saw the baby as an heir to his evil empire. It would have been born into a loveless relationshup with two screwed up parents who didn't really care about the baby or each other.

It's inherently evil because what? It's not like it would've been raised by Mundus and since when is murdering someone because their parents are bad ever okay? By the same logic it'd be okay if I shot you because I'm sure one of your ancestors was a dick.

It's not as if the baby would have been raised by Mundus, Mundus would have been dead by the time of its birth and there's nothing stopping them from taking the baby from Lilith.

 

[KaizenShio]

I wouldn't care to much either if the that same "Infant" was 4x bigger than me and tried to kill me in the last 24 hours... and since were going to dive into this deeper.. If we really dive into this morality bit this will ultimately fall on Lilith lap on who is to blame

 

[DragonMaster2010]

But Dante didn't care is the issue.

Dante did care. Ever since then, Dante's had doubts about Vergil's plans , but that was disregarded because they had to kill a demon king at the moment, which was a bit more important at the time then asking your brother 20 questions that he probably won't answer right away.

 

[AlchemistFromEden]

It was just a strange seem and grotesque for no reason. It also raises questions about Dante's morality. After Vergil does it he reacts as if Vergil just spilled a soda all over his nice new shirt. The idea that our hero is more likely to go back on their word than the villain also raises eyebrows. Mundus was keeping his end of the bargain, but in return Dante and Vergil lay down some demon bullet abortion.

You could say "HEY! But it's a demon so it doesn't matter!" But there are good demons in the DmC universe and the old universe. Sparda and Phineas, so if they exist there's probably more and the baby had complete potential to actually be good. There's 3 "good" demons if you count Dante.

This used to be a fun series about a guy who ate pizza, rode motorcycles up 90 degree angles and beat demons to death with it. Now it's about laying down some rifle abortions from the character who previously had a code against even using guns.

Let's also not forget that the SWAT team was presumably human and they just watched Vergil gun down some women and her baby and were completely in their rights to open fire. And Vergil and Dante gun them down too.

Let's also not forget that t he city is now in ruin, with probably many casualties to do Mundus' ragefit from Vergil shooting down his unborn son. Dante even passes by cars falling into debris that will probably kill their passengers and doesn't care at all.

Our hero, ladies and gentlemen.

and this is why the story is good, the characters have flaws, dante in dmc,1,2, and 4 was archetypically perfect in every way, these characters have flaws and make mistakes and not everything that happens is for the greater good

 

[Loopy]

What? It's not as if these random human SWAT members doing their job would have made a different if they let them live. Seriously, these cops just watched this guy shoot a pregnant woman in his eyes and the guy is armed still. Any rational cop opens fire back. So not only are they cool with Lilith murdering they also just shoot random innocent people.

Life isn't so simple. There's moral grey everywhere. Honestly, none of the characters is DmC are 'good'. All of them have flaws, all of them have questionable characters, with perhaps the exception of Kat and Eva because we don't know much about their pasts.

Mundus perceives himself to be helping humanity by hearding them like animals because he believes humans need his rule to stop themselves from killing each other and starving to death. He sees the Order as terrorists who are disruping the society he has created.

Vergil sees Mundus as a tyrant who needs to be deposed. However, Vergil wants to rule in Mundus' place and believes humans are like children. If humans were given control, they would not know what to do with it.

Dante spends his life not caring about anything, sleeping with women and has a questionable past due to situation beyond his control. However, by the end he wants to protect humans and stand up to Vergil.

Lilith wants power through Mundus and lets herself be used as a willing pawn. She doesn't love the child. It's a means to and end for her.

Then there's Phineas who tells Dante to kill Lilith and the child for revenge against Mundus.

Sparda the demon who helped Mundus enslave humans, then falls for an angel, but we do not know if he care for humanity after falling in love.

None of the characters are perfect.

 

[Slacri]

I wouldn't care to much either if the that same "Infant" was 4x bigger than me and tried to kill me in the last 24 hours... and since were going to dive into this deeper.. If we really dive into this morality bit this will ultimately fall on Lilith lap on who is to blame

I highly doubt the infant had much personal control as a fetus being controlled by Lilith.

Well sure, but blame isn't on one person and while I'm not blaming Dante for Vergil shooting at her because he couldn't of stopped it. I'm blaming him for no questioning it at all other than initial shock like any normal person would have.

 

[Slacri]

and this is why the story is good, the characters have flaws, dante in dmc,1,2, and 4 was archetypically perfect in every way, these characters have flaws and make mistakes and not everything that happens is for the greater good

Characters being psychopaths doesn't make them good and flawed. And Dante's flaws are never elaborated on because he's played up as the hero.

 

[Slacri]

Life isn't so simple. There's moral grey everywhere. Honestly, none of the characters is DmC are 'good'. All of them have flaws, all of them have questionable characters, with perhaps the exception of Kat and Eva because we don't know much about their pasts.

These aren't flaws. This is being a psychopath. And it's cool for characters to have flaws if they're elaborated on and made a point of. But this is just lazy writing.

Mundus perceives himself to be helping humanity by hearding them like animals because he believes humans need his rule to stop themselves from killing each other and starving to death. He sees the Order as terrorists who are disruping the society he has created.
Yes.

Vergil sees Mundus as a tyrant who needs to be deposed. However, Vergil wants to rule in Mundus' place and believes humans are like children. If humans were given control, they would not know what to do with it.

Dante spends his life not caring about anything, sleeping with women and has a questionable past due to situation beyond his control. However, by the end he wants to protect humans and stand up to Vergil.

Lilith wants power through Mundus and lets herself be used as a willing pawn. She doesn't love the child. It's a means to and end for her.

Then there's Phineas who tells Dante to kill Lilith and the child for revenge against Mundus.

Sparda the demon who helped Mundus enslave humans, then falls for an angel, but we do not know if he care for humanity after falling in love.

None of the characters are perfect.

I've said already. The issue isn't that they have flaws. Flaws are fine, but this is lazy writing rather than an intentional flaw for character development. They never elaborate on Dante being a psychopath or make a point of it.

 

[Slacri]

Dante did care. Ever since then, Dante's had doubts about Vergil's plans , but that was disregarded because they had to kill a demon king at the moment, which was a bit more important at the time then asking your brother 20 questions that he probably won't answer right away.

No he didn't. He never questions Vergil about it later. It's never even brought up again.

Oh okay, questioning Vergil about him murdering a bunch of innocent people and a pregnant demon isn't important enough. But joking about the size of your genitalia and talking about how much you get laid to keep stress off? That's important business people!

 

[Vezild]

But Dante didn't care. Normally any morally just person after watching someone you knew do some abhorrent act would question them heavily on it afterwards. Again the only thing Dante does is react with initial shock as if Vergil spilled his soda on Dante's new shirt and then its never mentioned again really. In fact Dante only questions Vergil when it involves his girlfriend Kat. I think he was just annoyed that Kat was in danger more so.

Dude, I don't know about you, but if a demon lady carrying the anti-christ, who by the by is the seed of the man who killed my mother, in her belly just tried to kill me and my best-friend and my brother, I'd be pretty ok with seeing her die.

What? It's not as if these random human SWAT members doing their job would have made a different if they let them live. Seriously, these cops just watched this guy shoot a pregnant woman in his eyes and the guy is armed still. Any rational cop opens fire back. So not only are they cool with Lilith murdering they also just shoot random innocent people.

Ok, yes, the cops fired back. Great, they're cops. But, uhh, Dante and Vergil have a plan. And that plan includes not dying. And if they don't kill the people trying to kill them, then how do they not die? I'm guessing storytelling isn't your forte if you can't realize how this little detail is paradoxical and irreverent.

But Dante didn't care is the issue.
Ever heard of the bigger picture?

I'm just going to ask: Do you know much about storytelling? There are certain things you leave out of the protagonist's character to keep the story flowing. If you start putting sentimental garbage in an action hero (like Dante), then you've failed at making an action/adventure story. Instead, you just made a drama, or maybe a psychological thriller.

 

[EvilX-81]

Sparda was shown to be concerned for his family, but unlike DMC classic Sparda, he went along with Mundus' plan to take over the human world. The only reason he changed was because of Eva. But just because he fell for her does not mean he suddenly cares about humans.
As for Phineas, he is the one who tells Dante 'Kill Lilith, kill the child'. He is the one who gives Dante the information and wants Lilith and the child dead as revenge to Mundus for taking his eye and putting him in prison. Phineas wants revenge and sees Dante as the one who can get that for him. He's not good. He's serving his own agenda.

Well, honestly we don't know how Sparda came to the point of turning against and shutting off the demon world. Could've been something similar to this, love making him change and see the "light".

Dante got put in foster homes which beat him and tortured him. Didn't turn out so well for him. No idea where they could send a huge demon baby. It's not like it could be disguised or anything.

Which brings up a interesting issue about demon births. Do they look like that before it's properly time for them to be 'born'? Somesort of evolution/gestation system? And why isn't it ready to be 'born' anyway if it's able to do all that stuff? Just.... demon births, how does it work?!!!

 

[Shin Muramasa]

Characters being psychopaths doesn't make them good and flawed. And Dante's flaws are never elaborated on because he's played up as the hero.

Psychopaths do make interesting characters though. But are you referring to DmC's cast or psychopaths in general?

And I can't speak on Dante's flaws since I have not played the game nor do I own it.

 

[Slacri]

I'm just going to ask: Do you know much about storytelling? There are certain things you leave out of the protagonist's character to keep the story flowing. If you start putting sentimental garbage in an action hero (like Dante), then you've failed at making an action/adventure story. Instead, you just made a drama, or maybe a psychological thriller.

Except that's exactly what they did, but okay. How is Dante questioning Vergil's assault rifle abortion method turn the story too dramatic?

 

[Slacri]

Psychopaths do make interesting characters though. But are you referring to DmC's cast or psychopaths in general?

And I can't speak on Dante's flaws since I have not played the game nor do I own it.

Well sure. I love the movie American Psycho. But Dante's character is made up as a hero, and the point of him isn't that he's a psychopath. I'm referring to Dante mostly.

 

[TerrorA]

If you're still arguing about whether it was wrong or not to kill Lillith, think about who did it.

Our Anti-villain ally. The guy who is lawful evil. And Dante does call him out. "Vergil, What the ****!?"

That moment shattered Dante's trust in Vergil, and was our first true hint of Vergil's real personality.