This whole debacle is complete off-topic stuff, so I don't intend to continue it any farther. I don't know about what tangible memories you talk, nor do I interest in it. But don't run around generalizing any possible person disliking DmC as hater and using it as a excuse to derail topic. I said all I wanted and if it falls on deaf ears, I'm not really interested in repeating it so don't bother with replies.
You go so far into arguing, and then you just go "I have no interest". And you also conveniently leave without admitting that you were wrong about that whole football thing that I said.
So you just ignored ToriJ's point, mine, and others'... because you want to live in imaginationland? Because you want to think that people disliked Dante using 'f*ck you' because ''oh noes! my frail body can't handle swearing''? We keep explaining, and you keep ignoring it, trying to somehow 'disprove it' by countering it with your own opinion. It doesn't work that way.
Okay, you seem to be completely misrepresenting my point. I didn't say anything about it being people unable to handle swearing. That is literally not something that I said. I said they weren't used to DMC being vulgar like that, as in, it's not something the classics ever did, and therefore it was different and unwanted because it clashed with what they knew DMC to be. That's a big reason why people disliked DmC to begin with, because it was different from what they knew the franchise to be. Their hero was different, the setting was different, the
tone was different.
What I said had nothing to do with this "my virgin ears!" junk :/ The only point I mentioned that was that it made people come off as oversensitive, like when they didn't bother elaborating. I'm not at all saying that it's simply because they "can't handle it".
And when I'm "disproving", it's that I would like some objective facts to support what is being said. That's why I mention benchmarks, and I'm not throwing out my opinion on it either. Where did I say "I feel" or imply that it was opinion? Because that's not my intention at all.
Stop acting like people who said they disliked his 'f*ck you' line are 'DmC haters'. Seriously, it always ends up being about DmC haters with you! It's 2014, and there are no apparent DmC haters on this forum anymore. If you asked everyone what they thought of it, they'd say they liked playing it (though some may prefer DMC of course - there's no accounting for taste). You keep bringing up stuff that happened in the past, and things that even happened between different people! Stop living in the past, and if you can't, then leave the debate.
Dude, I'm talking from experience, one that a lot of other people had when they followed information and videos on DmC since its announcement. They may be gone but they existed and it's a prime example of why many are still gunshy, myself included sometimes, especially when people do seem to never have anything worthwhile to say.
Nobody said 'f*ck you' was the entirety of his dialogue. You're just making these 'beliefs of why they dislike it' up, and falsely attributing them to people.
C'mon man, that's the entire reason for this topic, because people
do refer to Dante like that! It's the entire point of
why the question was asked. People make pictures of Dante with speech bubbles where all he utters is "F#ck you", as if it's his defining trait. This is a
real thing that you can find on the internet, and it's the reason why this topic was even created.
And if you believe it has nothing to do with unimaginative writing, and that it is all just subjective, then why are you even arguing with people in the first place? How is arguing over opinions constructive? This seems to me to be yet another case of denial that DmC was mediocre in some respects. If not, then you're denying that people can have negative opinions about certain dialog. It's like you're saying that ''negative opinions will not be tolerated''. No offense, but there's no need to be so butthurt about any and all criticism towards DmC, especially if it's just opinions according to you.
Okay, let's get one thing straight; I don't think that DmC is some god-sent came that can do no wrong, some of it
is mediocre at times.
However, DmC has been getting a raw deal since
Day f#cking One, and the "mediocre" aspects of the game are treated as way worse than they really are because it's DmC. The game does several things way better than some of the classics because hey, they got better at it, even the later classics did better in several ways, because they got better. There is a very clear benchmark for certain things, like performance, and DmC, along with DMC3 and DMC4, rise well above DMC1's campy-to-just-plain-bad performances, or if you wanna go lower for that benchmark Resident Evil 1's original performances.
And I'm not saying it doesn't have anything to do with unimaginative writing, I'm saying that "unimaginative writing" is a very shallow and rather baseless claim to make. How is that measured? What's it measured against? What makes it unimaginative? Why does it even
need to be imaginative in the first place? It's...swear words...did you want them to get really creative with them? I mean, c'mon, people use them because their sharp and to the point, they get the job done, not out of laziness or lack of imagination. Hell, the more imaginative you get with swearing, the more awkward it sounds, like "What in the sh!tting hell is going on here...?" does. It wasn't played emphatically or to exert emotion or attitude, it was just a creative way to say "What the hell?".
That's sort of an overall problem with some of the criticism tossed at DmC. It's a lot of subjective and/or undefinable things that somehow just need to be taking at face value. Things that are said are just like "Yup, that's just how it is", and then people get all p!ssy when there's someone like me who bothers to challenge the question. Then somehow it devolves into "it's just my opinion" from where it was originally thrown in as a fact.
Why would I even argue over subjectivity in the first place, though? Because so many drop in and throw around their subjective views as if they're fact, as if they're things that just need to be accepted, and it's utter bullsh!t. And this is something that pretty much every DmC fan has had to deal with. There was no place we could go to just have a nice conversation, to discuss what we liked, without some asshats dragging things down. It's like we weren't allowed to like it, and if we were, not without massive amounts of scrutiny.
And there is
still a whole lot of people just trodding on over to the DmC section that never have anything constructive to say. Why is it okay for the rest of the forum to have jolly good times, but whenever the DmC section tries to, someone is always there to p!ss in everyone's cereal? Why does
DmC and its fans have to just "deal with it"?
I'm sorry if it's off-topic, but when it seems to happen in every DmC thread, it really begs the question.
See, that's what I mean. You're connecting that fact to the current discussion, when it happened in the *past*.
It certainly doesn't feel like the past when you don't see certain people come in to the DmC forum to say anything constructive. Honestly, I'll just f#cking say it -
I have not seen Innsmouth ever enter a DmC discussion that wasn't him devaluing what was being said. I have never seen him talk about what he may like about DmC unless prompted, or his interest in the game is challenged. He is only ever around in the DmC section to criticize, and he is mysteriously absent from any positive discussion about the game. Mind you,
this is my experience and what I've witnessed, but that is what I have seen. And he's also not the first - there were many before him who are no longer here, or who actually do their best to actually be courteous and avoid topics on something they don't like.
That is why it doesn't feel like it's in the past, because I seem to be catching all the "right stuff" that shows me what I saw for three, no four years is still happening.
Nobody's hating on DmC; I liked DmC, and overall its writing wasn't bad. Most people here feel that way. The use of the words 'f*ck you' though... yeah, I see it as a good example of how DmC's writing does peter out sometimes. The only thing that's relevant is the way it was used. This strange emphasis on the words 'f*ck you' is very odd to me, because it is not interesting writing, IMO.
To change gears completely, what makes you feel like there's an emphasis on the phrase? I mean, it's not even said all that often (and when it is it still has context, however trivial). The curious thing is that the people who didn't like DmC are the ones that I've seen put a large emphasis on the phrase itself.
Instead of having all these 'f*ck yous', we could've had something a bit more interesting. Dante is supposed to at least be cool, not to be just a juvenile twenty-or-so-year-old.
Well now, that is actually the point. Dante is still very raw, that was an actual element to his character that they focused on. It's something that gradually changes in him over time. He stops being so angry and sweary, those rough edges get smoothed out, and what's left is his cocky, oft-facetious side. It goes hand in hand with how he originally couldn't give a sh!t, then only cares about avenging his family, then to putting it all on the line for a friend, and then putting it all on the line for
humanity.
It's not a big deal, really. I don't know why so many people get riled up about it, thinking that it's an attack on DmC. But I do think it's valid criticism, whether we like 'f you' or dislike it.
It's part of being gunshy, honestly. Like I said before, DmC has never really been given an inch, and when it is, there always seems to be someone else there to take two back. Plus, with that "f#ck you" stuff, it was something that a lot of dissenters used to knock the game. Like, I can't stress enough how so many people, off of five seconds of dialogue, concluded that Dante's vocabulary was comprised of nothin' but "f#ck". A lot of what DmC did/does is used as ammunition against it.
Sorry if that sounded really aggressive, but it's just really annoying me that every debate ends up being about 'DmC haters', when there are none to be found on this forum (anymore). It just seems like there's a lot of willful ignorance here, as well as people who are stuck in the past. The word 'haters' is something I'd rather not even use, because you either like something or you don't, and 'haters' is used as a kind of instant rebuttal. It's a word that demeans and deprecates the opposing side in a debate, even when that side is trying to have a normal discussion. I'm sick of it being used to excuse ignorance and hatred.
I don't like to use the word either, but sometimes it fit for people who
did and still do hang around something they don't like. And like I mentioned before, it really doesn't feel like it's gone away as a thing of the past.
Huh? It was actually quite a bit of the opposite here. DMC 1 Dante's motivation has more than enough revenge in it because he even says it. He hopes to stumble across the demons that killed his family with the Devil May Cry business. He knew all about his family and it was quite a loss for him. Sure he still fights the good fight because he's Dante, but DmC was more about Dante fighting for a cause and a responsibility as a protector of humanity. It's learning of his lineage, the Order, and people he met Dante becomes the hero.
With DmC it was a bit of both. Dante started off not giving a sh!t, then when he found out about his past, he selfishly wanted revenge for his family, then as he got to know people, he selflessly risks it all to save a friend, and in the end, he selflessly casts aside his blood ties to protect humanity.
Anyway, I've got a Japanese quiz to study for. Later, taters.
