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New Devil May Cry will teach casuals the "magic" of pro gaming

GF9000000Returns

Well-known Member
People haven't moved on from Marvel vs Capcom 2, Super Smash Brothers Melee, or Street Fighter Third Strike.
Just because the game is old doesn't mean we have to move away from it.
We still find it enjoyable to play and that is what matters to us. That's why we still play it.

That's not the point. The point I'm trying to make is that some of you guys expect a DMC5 very soon and if DmC sells well, there will never be one because the company thinks that the old fans are becoming too old and doing more important things than gaming. Unless you are at a gaming school, you would understand.

Hell, even I've cut some gaming myself cuz I'm gettin' too old. Got other more important things to do.
 

darkmanifest

Unleash the blood
I felt like DMC3:SE had a great learning curve, a good balance between brutality and fun. I'm a casual player, but I was able to steadily improve to better combos and higher difficulties without feeling like I was being either coddled or punished, and felt at home in my personal style of playing (which wasn't dependent on juggling enemies).

That said, the games did kind of force you to either figure it out or go home, which I guess made a lot of people, well, go home. It's better if more people are encouraged to stick around and keep trying, and letting them feel like truly epic combos are within their reach with time and effort probably helps.
 

Soupie

Well-known Member
Hi guys, I'm new to the forums. I'm just here to state my opinion so go easy on me. ^_^

From what I've seen so far, DmC does have a much higher degree of accessibility to casual players compared to past games. Using different combinations of movesets felt very fluid for me when I played the demo. Some of the fun combos I got to try out were (High Time ---> Level 3 Ricoshot --> Raze --> Aerial combos), (Tremor --> Overdrive). As someone who just got three playthroughs in with the demo, DmC seems to boast more possibilities than its predecessors. The moves simply felt as though they matched with one another. It was also fun figuring out that Devil Trigger introduced more possibilities, such as dealing free-style combos with any weapon I wanted on the angel-only/demon-only demons.

As for jump cancelling, DmC introduced the technique to me for the first time, though I haven't had the time to practice with it (I play the demo at a friend's house). JC was easy enough to pull off but timing was far from strict compared to my experiences as an amateur fighting game player. It was a fun thing to play with, but I wasn't focused much on it (spammed Rake JC once in my last playthrough on the angel-only demon in SoS).

I can't really vouch much for the game in terms of its potential in advanced play, since I've never applied jump canceling until playing DmC. However, I will say that it isn't uncommon for developers to simplify their games for casuals while still attempting to retain higher level play for veterans. UMvC3 was very lenient on button mashing and had a basic 4-button combo for nearly all the characters. P4A had auto-combos that led into super finishers. SFxT used gems and introduced a simple light-medium-heavy-launcher combo (though I don't think the former is the best example). Despite these features catering to new players, the games still rewarded players who had the discipline to practice complex combos as well as time their inputs right. I do hope that this is the case with DmC, for the sake of the advanced players.

I'd say evolved gameplay is right for casual gamers. Not sure about higher level play.
 

Chancey289

Fake Geek Girl.
That's not the point. The point I'm trying to make is that some of you guys expect a DMC5 very soon and if DmC sells well, there never be one because the company thinks that the old fans are becoming too old and doing more important things than gaming. Unless you are at a gaming school, you would understand.

Hell, even I've cut some gaming myself cuz I'm gettin' too old. Got other more important things to do.

If DmC doesn't preform to fair expectations then I don't think people will get another DMC at all. I read an article in GameInformer a while back that told me all about Capcom's current state of affairs and they aren't doing so hot. People think DMC 4 sold well which actually it didn't considering how big of an IP DMC is suppose to be to Capcom. If it wasn't multiplatform it would have been considered to be a bit of a bomb here. The biggest audience for gaming is actually more in the west so that's why franchises are hoping to expand on an audience there.

As for gaming, the last game I bought with my own money was Batman Arkham City in december of 2011 so yea, I can't buy games as much as I use to because I got my own priorities. The reason why I'm so hyped about DmC is because it's one of my favorite franchise doing something new and actually is getting me interested in investing my time and money in it. It's on my buy list along with GTA 5, Injustice, and MGS Ground Zeroes. They will probably be the only games I buy this year.
 

Chancey289

Fake Geek Girl.
Overall though, Devil May Cry has never had that much of a steep learning curve. Sure it required some precision timing but I think still anyone can pick it up because my friend who never played a DMC in his life picked up 3 and was kicking ass in no time recently. I hope the DMC community won't turn into a community like Dark Souls because those people have can have a serious superiority complex and are some pretentious pricks.
 

ChaserTech

Well-known Member
Overall though, Devil May Cry has never had that much of a steep learning curve. Sure it required some precision timing but I think still anyone can pick it up because my friend who never played a DMC in his life picked up 3 and was kicking ass in no time recently. I hope the DMC community won't turn into a community like Dark Souls because those people have can have a serious superiority complex and are some pretentious pricks.

Uh..it didn't have a steep learning curve for basic combat, yeah.

But not for advanced combat. The learning curve wasn't really much of a curve.
More like a wall. A wall that you have to get over though months worth of practice.
 

GF9000000Returns

Well-known Member
If DmC doesn't preform to fair expectations then I don't think people will get another DMC at all. I read an article in GameInformer a while back that told me all about Capcom's current state of affairs and they aren't doing so hot. People think DMC 4 sold well which actually it didn't considering how big of an IP DMC is suppose to be to Capcom. If it wasn't multiplatform it would have been considered to be a bit of a bomb here. The biggest audience for gaming is actually more in the west so that's why franchises are hoping to expand on an audience there.

As for gaming, the last game I bought with my own money was Batman Arkham City in december of 2011 so yea, I can't buy games as much as I use to because I got my own priorities. The reason why I'm so hyped about DmC is because it's one of my favorite franchise doing something new and actually is getting me interested in investing my time and money in it. It's on my buy list along with GTA 5, Injustice, and MGS Ground Zeroes. They will probably be the only games I buy this year.

Finally! Somebody who gets how some fanbases go. It's like Guilty Gear transforming into Blazblue. Blazblue may have a slower gameplay but it was still successful, I believe that's how this will go as well. And people need to understand that sometimes just because a game sold well doesn't mean that it was recieved well and DMC2 & 4 proved that.

Lol if I haven't got christmas money from the famz, I would've waited for the price drop to get DmC because I have school. (well...I go to a community college and then I will go to a university) This along with GTA5 are my most anticipated games of this year.
 

Chancey289

Fake Geek Girl.
Uh..it didn't have a steep learning curve for basic combat, yeah.

But not for advanced combat. The learning curve wasn't really much of a curve.
More like a wall. A wall that you have to get over though months worth of practice.

You can't sit there and tell me the new combat is any less deep that the previous games because NT made a system that is up to par with what DMC is all about. I expected them to since they worked so closely with the creative team of DMC 3 and the director of DMC 2, 3, and 4. The new combat lives up to the DMC standard and they really went about it the right way in also making it more accessible. Also, I found out this type of combat was going to be introduced as early as DMC 3.
 

Soupie

Well-known Member
I can agree with that.

Also welcome to the forums. lol

Thanks :D It's nice to meet you.

Overall though, Devil May Cry has never had that much of a steep learning curve. Sure it required some precision timing but I think still anyone can pick it up because my friend who never played a DMC in his life picked up 3 and was kicking ass in no time recently. I hope the DMC community won't turn into a community like Dark Souls because those people have can have a serious superiority complex and are some pretentious pricks.

Steep learning curve or otherwise, DMC3's hellish difficulty still remains a nightmare to finish for any new player lol

Anyways, am I the only person who thinks Darksiders 2's combat was just kind of bad as far as combat potential goes? Having the same attacks to do wasn't really fun after 10 hours. I couldn't bear to finish the game. If someone could correct me with some insight into the technical aspects of the game?
 

ChaserTech

Well-known Member
You can't sit there and tell me the new combat is any less deep that the previous games because NT made a system that is up to par with what DMC is all about.

And you can't sit there and tell me that from what we've seen, DmC's advanced combat is on par with DMC's advanced combat. Because that is my point. Based on what we've seen, DmC is leagues below under DMC3/DMC4's advanced combat system. The learning curve in DmC is steep, but not nearly as steep as DMC3 nor DMC4.

If this is true, I want you to prove it to me.
 

Paexie

Well-known Member
Well, my two cents are that yes... they lowered pretty much everything that has to do with the complexity of the previous games.

But you also have to see that a lot (and I do mean a lot) of people completely suck at hack n' slash games. Hence why GoW is so popular, it's easy to get into but it doesn't evolve beyond that. I think DmC tries to be half and half.

Which will be a big no for pros but it will interest newbies to TRY to be cool as they play. Seriously, most of my gamer friends are pro FPS players and some are enjoying what they got in DmC and are giving the WHOLE SERIES a chance (two of them bought the HD collection and another DMC4).

That's f*cking great even if they don't try DmC fully.
 

Furious D

Calm Stylish Fury
And you can't sit there and tell me that from what we've seen, DmC's advanced combat is on par with DMC's advanced combat. Because that is my point. Based on what we've seen, DmC is leagues below under DMC3/DMC4's advanced combat system.
I think more impressive combo videos and advanced tactics will start popping up when the players start playing more to DmC's strengths, which are set-ups and crowd control. Dante has never had this level of ability to manipulate the position of his opponents, and every weapon reflects a different way to move enemies around. Even the lack of a hard lock-on suggests a shift away from the single-target focus, but combo videos so far still primarily involve doing twitchy stuff against one dude.
 

Chancey289

Fake Geek Girl.
And you can't sit there and tell me that from what we've seen, DmC's advanced combat is on par with DMC's advanced combat. Because that is my point. Based on what we've seen, DmC is leagues below under DMC3/DMC4's advanced combat system. The learning curve in DmC is steep, but not nearly as steep as DMC3 nor DMC4.

If this is true, I want you to prove it to me.

DmC offers alot of variety in combat when it's giving you the ability to switch between any weapon at anytime. Instead of having a Dante that's good at some of the things some of the time you have a Dante who's good at all of the things all of the time. Plus it's really so simple because doing certain techniques can be done by simply holding a button. Every weapon has a pause combo both on the ground and up in the air. This is really a freaking sandbox of techniques and combos you can make up all your own and a restriction of styles is not present so feel free to do it any move any time you want. You won't have to worry about switching styles because it's given to you. The auto lock on works just fine and just simply changing my direction is changing what enemy I'm attacking. The lock only added like a few extra things but the majority of the time it was use to launch an enemy. Like I said, each weapon (counted 8 so far) has their own unique list of abilities. To say that this combat is leagues under the previous is total bullshit because I played and beat every single Devil May Cry game and I see where it pays tributes to the previous titles and quite frankly improves on the original.

Seriously half the time I don't get where the hate for the reboot comes from because being a hardcore DMC fan myself it definitely knows what makes Devil May Cry Devil May Cry. It improves on where I always saw DMC fail and I think it has the potential to be the best in the series. My personal favorite has always been the very first one. All I see is people comparing it to the older games and say it;s better with no real justification. Alot of those haters have been those bias fanboys who have been shooting down everything DmC has because they're against the reboot. They refuse to accept honestly how good this game is looking. I'm not gonna lie, Devil May Cry is one of my favorite game series but I think it really needed a reboot.

There's a reason why some many people have been saying positive things about the game when you look at all the people who got their hands on it completely. It's because it's actually most likely a good game. I truly think it will be one of the stronger titles this year but how will anyone who hates it acknowledge how good it really is if trivial things got them so upset. Yes, I will say that a portion of hatred stems from things like haircut and anime fans mad just because it's not trying to be an anime anymore. You can try to dice it and say it isn't about that but rewind the clock to the reveal trailer and the initial reaction to the change in appearance was flat out ridiculous and quite frankly pathetic in my eyes. They hated everything about it from day one and kept that attitude the whole time so why do I expect them to change their mind if they never gave it a fighting chance to begin with. So, while everyone else will be having fun with a new Devil May Cry, those butthurt fanboys will still be pouting like children.

Don't take this out of context because maybe you aren't like one of those ridiculous fanboys but from all over the internet whether I see it on youtube or facebook, the Devil May Cry fanbase can be really a bunch of babies. You have to admit, the more vocal haters have just been making themselves look like complete asshats.
 

ChaserTech

Well-known Member
DmC offers alot of variety in combat when it's giving you the ability to switch between any weapon at anytime.

. . . That's not new. It's been around since DMC4.

Instead of having a Dante that's good at some of the things some of the time you have a Dante who's good at all of the things all of the time.

It still required you to switch through Angel and Demon mode in DmC. Making him "good at some of the things some of the time", as you put it.

Without switching through styles, Dante has access to almost all of his weapons. DmC Dante on the other hand needs to switch through Angel and Demon mode in order to access any of his weapons, from what I've seen.(Maybe for his guns, but that's about it)

And yes, I'm comparing styles with Angel/Demon mode because it's virtually the same.
Dante even has a style that is essentially a weapon in DMC4 (Yamato) so this is why I'm counting it as such.

Plus it's really so simple because doing certain techniques can be done by simply holding a button.

Uh...previous games could do this.


Every weapon has a pause combo both on the ground and up in the air.

Not Arbiter. It only has one ground combo.
Aside from this, that doesn't make DmC's combat system more advanced than DMC4.

This is really a freaking sandbox of techniques and combos you can make up all your own and a restriction of styles is not present so feel free to do it any move any time you want. You won't have to worry about switching styles because it's given to you.

Just like DMC4? And you did had to switch between modes in DmC. By holding either the left trigger, right trigger or none at all.

And I don't see how styles are "restrictive" when they added a lot of depth within the combat system.

The auto lock on works just fine and just simply changing my direction is changing what enemy I'm attacking. The lock only added like a few extra things but the majority of the time it was use to launch an enemy. Like I said, each weapon (counted 8 so far) has their own unique list of abilities.

Considering the fact that they have recycled concepts of 6 weapons:
Rebellion, Revenant, Kablooey, Ebony&Ivory, Ophion Whip, Eyrx

I wouldn't call them all unique.

And the lock on button added a lot more than what you think.
For example: With the lock on system, you either had forward/backward/side input (side for dodges).
And each weapon had about 1 to 4 moves thrown into it due to the lock on system.

6 weapons + 5 styles + Lock On system = 30+ moves that utilized the Lock-On system.
That's a lot more than what you think.

With DmC, you're forced to use double tap inputs and pause combos which can relatively slow down the pace of gameplay.
Not to mention you're sacrificing more weapons for more buttons with less moves.


To say that this combat is leagues under the previous is total bullshit because I played and beat every single Devil May Cry game and I see where it pays tributes to the previous titles and quite frankly improves on the original.

So you've beaten every DMC game? Congrats.
That doesn't mean you played the game at an advanced level. At all.
Nor does it mean that you automatically understand all of the technical skill behind it.

Seriously half the time I don't get where the hate for the reboot comes from because being a hardcore DMC fan myself it definitely knows what makes Devil May Cry Devil May Cry. It improves on where I always saw DMC fail and I think it has the potential to be the best in the series. My personal favorite has always been the very first one. All I see is people comparing it to the older games and say it;s better with no real justification. Alot of those haters have been those bias fanboys who have been shooting down everything DmC has because they're against the reboot. They refuse to accept honestly how good this game is looking. I'm not gonna lie, Devil May Cry is one of my favorite game series but I think it really needed a reboot.

Yes, haters can be bias fanboys. But there are some of us who actually point out why we don't like this game. As for me, I'm a neutral. I gave the game a chance to appeal to me and it failed. But as for the actual story, it proves to be far more significant than the previous games that I've played. (was introduced to DMC3/DMC4)

I played the demo and I wasn't satisfied.
I watched several videos showing cut-scenes and I didn't particularly agree with them that much. But I'm still interested to see how Dante's personality will unfold, as well as seeing the other characters being developed.

So it's safe to say that I'm only going to watch videos about the game when it comes out. I don't hate this game nor do I like it. I merely dislike the combat system.
Which I've said countless, countless times.




There's a reason why some many people have been saying positive things about the game when you look at all the people who got their hands on it completely. It's because it's actually most likely a good game. I truly think it will be one of the stronger titles this year but how will anyone who hates it acknowledge how good it really is if trivial things got them so upset. Yes, I will say that a portion of hatred stems from things like haircut and anime fans mad just because it's not trying to be an anime anymore. You can try to dice it and say it isn't about that but rewind the clock to the reveal trailer and the initial reaction to the change in appearance was flat out ridiculous and quite frankly pathetic in my eyes. They hated everything about it from day one and kept that attitude the whole time so why do I expect them to change their mind if they never gave it a fighting chance to begin with. So, while everyone else will be having fun with a new Devil May Cry, those butthurt fanboys will still be pouting like children.

Yes, the initial response was originally towards the hair. But can we really blame them?
Most of the people have indeed grown up with Dante over the years. They have grown attached to Dante as a character since he appealed to a lot of people. Even I got mad at the appearance.

But I looked past that because I wanted to give the game a chance.
Like some antis are doing on these very forums.

If you had a character icon that you cherished, and it was dramatically changed, wouldn't you get upset during the first reveal at the character, yourself?

Don't take this out of context because maybe you aren't like one of those ridiculous fanboys but from all over the internet whether I see it on youtube or facebook, the Devil May Cry fanbase can be really a bunch of babies. You have to admit, the more vocal haters have just been making themselves look like complete asshats.

Same thing applies to the pro side as well.
I've had people call me an idiot, retard, pathetic, and etc. just because I didn't agree with most of the things within this game. I even had one user telling me that I should "die with my bullshit and stupidity." when I made a review about the DmC demo.
All because I had a different opinion of the game.





So, since that's aside for now. I'm still waiting for you to prove to me why DmC's advanced combat is on par with DMC4/DMC3 since you never did.
 

Chancey289

Fake Geek Girl.
. . . That's not new. It's been around since DMC4.



It still required you to switch through Angel and Demon mode in DmC. Making him "good at some of the things some of the time", as you put it.

Without switching through styles, Dante has access to almost all of his weapons. DmC Dante on the other hand needs to switch through Angel and Demon mode in order to access any of his weapons, from what I've seen.(Maybe for his guns, but that's about it)

And yes, I'm comparing styles with Angel/Demon mode because it's virtually the same.
Dante even has a style that is essentially a weapon in DMC4 (Yamato) so this is why I'm counting it as such.



Uh...previous games could do this.




Not Arbiter. It only has one ground combo.
Aside from this, that doesn't make DmC's combat system more advanced than DMC4.



Just like DMC4? And you did had to switch between modes in DmC. By holding either the left trigger, right trigger or none at all.

And I don't see how styles are "restrictive" when they added a lot of depth within the combat system.



Considering the fact that they have recycled concepts of 6 weapons:
Rebellion, Revenant, Kablooey, Ebony&Ivory, Ophion Whip, Eyrx

I wouldn't call them all unique.

And the lock on button added a lot more than what you think.
For example: With the lock on system, you either had forward/backward/side input (side for dodges).
And each weapon had about 1 to 4 moves thrown into it due to the lock on system.

6 weapons + 5 styles + Lock On system = 30+ moves that utilized the Lock-On system.
That's a lot more than what you think.

With DmC, you're forced to use double tap inputs and pause combos which can relatively slow down the pace of gameplay.
Not to mention you're sacrificing more weapons for more buttons with less moves.




So you've beaten every DMC game? Congrats.
That doesn't mean you played the game at an advanced level. At all.
Nor does it mean that you automatically understand all of the technical skill behind it.



Yes, haters can be bias fanboys. But there are some of us who actually point out why we don't like this game. As for me, I'm a neutral. I gave the game a chance to appeal to me and it failed. But as for the actual story, it proves to be far more significant than the previous games that I've played. (was introduced to DMC3/DMC4)

I played the demo and I wasn't satisfied.
I watched several videos showing cut-scenes and I didn't particularly agree with them that much. But I'm still interested to see how Dante's personality will unfold, as well as seeing the other characters being developed.

So it's safe to say that I'm only going to watch videos about the game when it comes out. I don't hate this game nor do I like it. I merely dislike the combat system.
Which I've said countless, countless times.






Yes, the initial response was originally towards the hair. But can we really blame them?
Most of the people have indeed grown up with Dante over the years. They have grown attached to Dante as a character since he appealed to a lot of people. Even I got mad at the appearance.

But I looked past that because I wanted to give the game a chance.
Like some antis are doing on these very forums.

If you had a character icon that you cherished, and it was dramatically changed, wouldn't you get upset during the first reveal at the character, yourself?



Same thing applies to the pro side as well.
I've had people call me an idiot, retard, pathetic, and etc. just because I didn't agree with most of the things within this game. I even had one user telling me that I should "die with my bullshit and stupidity." when I made a review about the DmC demo.
All because I had a different opinion of the game.





So, since that's aside for now. I'm still waiting for you to prove to me why DmC's advanced combat is on par with DMC4/DMC3 since you never did.

DMC 4 was a **** game and one of the worst games I played that year so I'm not even acknowledging anymore. I hated it. I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks about the game because I'm wanting to play another Devil May Cry and I play games to have fun, it was fun. Maybe all those fanboys who complained over something trivial as hair take this series more seriously than I do. But Dante just has a makeover. He's still virtually the same character. A cocky demonslayer with a sense of justice, that's Dante. I'm just hearing the lack of awful one liners and it's dialogue that just seems more natural because no one in their right mind says the lame crap Dante says on such a consistent basis. If a poorly developed character was their hero or something maybe they need better people to look up to.
 

Dante47

Well-known Member
I won't lie. DmC is simplified in it's combat, but strangely I'm okay with that.

More hardcore fans like me should feel at home with the fairly challenging difficulties of Nephilim and above.
Casual gamers just getting into the series will of course play on Devil Hunter (or Human if that's how you roll) but they will be challenged considering they've never experienced something like it before.

Once their nerves are hardened, they can move up to higher difficulties, and even revisit previous entries in the series.
Bare in mind, that's what this game set out to do, right? Acquire new fans. Is there anything wrong with that?
 
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