New Devil May Cry will teach casuals the "magic" of pro gaming

[ChaserTech]

DMC 4 was a **** game and one of the worst games I played that year so I'm not even acknowledging anymore. I hated it. I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks about the game because I'm wanting to play another Devil May Cry and I play games to have fun, it was fun. Maybe all those fanboys who complained over something trivial as hair take this series more seriously than I do. But Dante just has a makeover. He's still virtually the same character. A cocky demonslayer with a sense of justice, that's Dante. I'm just hearing the lack of awful one liners and it's dialogue that just seems more natural because no one in their right mind says the lame crap Dante says on such a consistent basis. If a poorly developed character was their hero or something maybe they need better people to look up to.

So....just because you don't like DMC4 means that the advanced combat system in DmC is on par with DMC4?

Is that your explanation? :/

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

So you've beaten every DMC game? Congrats.
That doesn't mean you played the game at an advanced level. At all.
Nor does it mean that you automatically understand all of the technical skill behind it.

I will say that this is mildly unfair, because you shouldn't have to play a game at an advanced level to be able to say what you like and dislike about it. If you play the game and you're at least decent at it, then you have the right to say it's good or bad.

 

[ChaserTech]

I will say that this is mildly unfair, because you shouldn't have to play a game at an advanced level to be able to say what you like and dislike about it. If you play the game and you're at least decent at it, then you have the right to say it's good or bad.

That's not my point.

My original point was that DmC wasn't as steep in DMC4 in terms of combat. He gave me his reasons why and I said that.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

That's not my point.

My original point was that DmC wasn't as steep in DMC4 in terms of combat. He gave me his reasons why and I said that.

I will say that DmC seems less "deep", but it's more versatile. Like Nero. In DMC4 it was always a chore to switch styles because I can't multitask very well (yeah, I admit it. There's gonna be a bunch of people telling me I shouldn't bother playing DMC now.) and I have NEVER, no matter what controller I used, managed to get the D-pad to give me the style I wanted on the fly.

 

[ChaserTech]

I will say that DmC seems less "deep", but it's more versatile. Like Nero. In DMC4 it was always a chore to switch styles because I can't multitask very well (yeah, I admit it. There's gonna be a bunch of people telling me I shouldn't bother playing DMC now.) and I have NEVER, no matter what controller I used, managed to get the D-pad to give me the style I wanted on the fly.

What controller do you use? I normally use a PS3 controller whenever I'm playing DMC4. Even when I first played the game I had no problems. I got the styles that I wanted with no problem. And I was horrible back then.

If you're using the Xbox 360 controller, the D-Pad is...relatively bad. I can't even use it for fighting games since it gives me wrong inputs all the time.
It's virtually a D-Pad face on a analog stick.

 

[TyIquan_DmC]

I love DMC4. I don't like it as much as DMC3, but that's no fault of the actual gameplay, which I think is better in DMC4. It's just that as a game, DMC3 is better. And I'm sure any fan of the series can understand, knowing the general feelings towards DMC4.

At the same time, I also believe that DMC1 is slightly better than DMC3. In combat? Heaven's no. But it's a much more atmospheric and involved game. DMC3 has story and more advanced combat, but DMC1 has everything else, and the gameplay is still great by itself. The story by itself isn't as flashy or engaging as DMC3(or even 4, honestly), but what's there sets up great bosses, a great world, and a hero that isn't totally embarrassing at times. Dante actually properly reacted to what was going on around him, as opposed to his random comments and behavior of the other games. DMC3/4 Dante makes me facepalm, and it sucks because 90% of the time I forget that I'm still holding the controller. That said I still liked him, I just preferred him in DMC1.

So it's with that exact same logic that I also believe that DmC will be a better game than DMC4. It won't be as technical, but the gameplay is still deep and fun, and as a whole, I feel it'll be a much better package. Yet when I say that, I'm met with "LOLz." No worthwhile rebuttals, just mockery.

I just want to say though, I don't feel it's fair to compare angel/demon mode to styles and at the same time use that as an excuse to take away his weapons in a comparison. Using a recycled and tacked on style isn't really a reason to view them as simply styles, when they're far more akin to weapon switches.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

If you're using the Xbox 360 controller, the D-Pad is...relatively bad. I can't even use it for fighting games since it gives me wrong inputs all the time.
It's virtually a D-Pad face on a analog stick.

I only have it on 360... My PC can't handle it and I don't see the logic in trading in the 360 version for like, 10 bucks and buying the PS3 version for 20-30.

 

[ChaserTech]

I love DMC4. I don't like it as much as DMC3, but that's no fault of the actual gameplay, which I think is better in DMC4. It's just that as a game, DMC3 is better. And I'm sure any fan of the series can understand, knowing the general feelings towards DMC4.

I liked DMC4 but I loved DMC3 overall.
However I still play DMC4 to this day since it's extremely intriguing.

At the same time, I also believe that DMC1 is slightly better than DMC3. In combat? Heaven's no. But it's a much more atmospheric and involved game. DMC3 has story and more advanced combat, but DMC1 has everything else, and the gameplay is still great by itself. The story by itself isn't as flashy or engaging as DMC3(or even 4, honestly), but what's there sets up great bosses, a great world, and a hero that isn't totally embarrassing at times. Dante actually properly reacted to what was going on around him, as opposed to his random comments and behavior of the other games. DMC3/4 Dante makes me facepalm, and it sucks because 90% of the time I forget that I'm still holding the controller. That said I still liked him, I just preferred him in DMC1.

So it's with that exact same logic that I also believe that DmC will be a better game than DMC4. It won't be as technical, but the gameplay is still deep and fun, and as a whole, I feel it'll be a much better package. Yet when I say that, I'm met with "LOLz." No worthwhile rebuttals, just mockery.

Yeah I personally believe DmC will be a better game overall, but as for the combat system, it won't be as advanced and technical when played at high level. I'm not saying it will be a downright disgrace. I'm sure it will be somewhat enjoyable to most people.

I just want to say though, I don't feel it's fair to compare angel/demon mode to styles and at the same time use that as an excuse to take away his weapons in a comparison. Using a recycled and tacked on style isn't really a reason to view them as simply styles, when they're far more akin to weapon switches.

I compared it as such since people often make comparisons between the two. I only felt it was necessary.

 

[Frazz]

I think with DmC the combat is just as deep and fun but it is easier to reach its depths. While I recognise that DMC4 was the pinnicle in terms of technical stuff with the combat I feel DmC is just more fun. When I got DMC4 I played it for 2 months and then never again until the release of the HD collection because to me the fact of no alt costumes (besides super) and its combat being less fun it held little replay value to me! DmC demo has helped me get A LOT better at JC and DMC in general as DMC3 DMD is a lot easier to me since I played the DmC demo... weird I know but it is true! This is just my opinion though and I like DmC but I realise it isn't as technical as DMC4 and 3 or as fast but from the demo I have had as much fun as I had with DMC1 and 3 the first time I played them!

 

[Chancey289]

So....just because you don't like DMC4 means that the advanced combat system in DmC is on par with DMC4?

Is that your explanation? :/

DmC's combat is better. I haven't had this much fun with DMC since the first game for the first time. DMC 4's combat was unnecessarily convoluted that added moves for the sake of adding them. Alot of moves can be substituted for others and are just as effective. DmC actually gives a decent justification to use Dante's variety of techniques when weapons like the Arbiter are crucial for breaking heavy guards and the Osiris can catch multiple enemies at a longer range. You then have the Aquila which can catch multiple enemies and pull them together towards you. In 4, you have these different attacks but can only use your certain styles and it gets tedious when you're trying to piece something together only to realize you can;t do a certain move with this style so time to cycle for a sec.

If everything is given to you to play like you want and is also easily accessible for newer players to jump in as well as adding enough depth for the hardcore crowd then the obvious winner here in combat is DmC hands down. It's probably the best in the series to date and I hope Devil May Cry really sticks with this play style.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

I was one and done with DMC 4 because I didn't like hardly at all. It was a very lazy game and a solid combat system did not save it from being a crap game. It was a prime example of a series pushed through the ringer after being shaken down for sequels and pretty much showed me Capcom was all out of ideas with this franchise.

Finally!

 

[Dante94513]

Despite a lot of criticism from DMC4, I still love the game. I remember defending to the death, but after a while. Growing some brain cells. I start to realize the flaws. DMC3 is probably my most favorite DMC game to date just a ahead of DmC. But DMC4 was still great IMO.

 

[ChaserTech]

DmC's combat is better. I haven't had this much fun with DMC since the first game for the first time. DMC 4's combat was unnecessarily convoluted that added moves for the sake of adding them. Alot of moves can be substituted for others and are just as effective. DmC actually gives a decent justification to use Dante's variety of techniques when weapons like the Arbiter are crucial for breaking heavy guards and the Osiris can catch multiple enemies at a longer range. You then have the Aquila which can catch multiple enemies and pull them together towards you. In 4, you have these different attacks but can only use your certain styles and it gets tedious when you're trying to piece something together only to realize you can;t do a certain move with this style so time to cycle for a sec.

If everything is given to you to play like you want and is also easily accessible for newer players to jump in as well as adding enough depth for the hardcore crowd then the obvious winner here in combat is DmC hands down. It's probably the best in the series to date and I hope Devil May Cry really sticks with this play style.

That still does not prove that the advanced combat in DmC, based on what the demo provided us, is better than DMC4.

DmC's learning curve in terms of acquiring skill and mastering different techniques, is dumbed down considerably. It does not take much time to master the moves within the demo compared to the full game of DMC4, which is what I have been talking about this whole time. DMC4's combat system, when played at a high level, require much, MUCH more precision and timing in terms of execution. You keep throwing your opinion into this argument in terms of "what is better" when I'm talking to you about a subject that deals with how precise and technical advanced combat is.

It's like comparing Super Smash Brothers Melee to Super Smash Brothers Brawl in a technical aspect. Melee is deemed far more advanced than Brawl can ever be due to how good your execution needs to be when doing different things.

I'm not talking about how versatile something is.
I'm not talking about how regular combat is better/worse. (Which you are thinking this for some reason)
I'm talking about how advanced combat in DMC4 is steeper than DmC based off what we've seen so far.

Compared to a video like this:

DMC4 is beyond in terms of difficulty in gaining advanced skill.

And if you don't understand the videos that I posted about DMC4, I have a entire playlist about tutorials that I've made showing how deep DMC4's gameplay in my signature.

And to be honest, I've only covered about 60% of what you can do you in DMC4 in my tutorials. DmC's advanced gameplay is nothing compared to that.


Base combat maybe better, yes I can agree with that.
But the learning curve to acquire skill in DmC is dumbed down dramatically. Making it a lot easier to perform advanced techniques, just like Jump Cancelling.

 

[LeoXCV]

For me it's kinda like this for combat throughout the franchise.
DMC1 - Intro to hack n' slash and noticed how much I liked the difficulty.
DMC2 - Didn't like the weapons being same actions, slightly different effects. Amulet system was great N' all but I couldn't see why you couldn't have just had almost all the abilities at once since to change it you just went into the pause menu. In terms of difficulty, not a huge step.
DMC3 - Really upped the bar for difficulty and room for improvement. Probably the most enjoyment any game has ever given me from purchase onwards. So much fun trying all sorts of new stuff out.
DMC3:SE - Turbo with Vergil = Extension to my already max enjoyment for the combat
DMC4 - A major step up for combat and room to improve.

I don't see what DmC can possibly add to experience with the franchise if the combat technicality is less than DMC3/4. I mean it looks like it'll offer what has already happened for me in other games. Though I've played a lot of games so I can understand from a newcomer/bit more casual gamer standpoint this game will be amazing. But still it would be nice if they included more innovation combat wise for people in similar situations. I'm far from being considered pro in DMC4, yet I went into DmC demo for such a short time and still managed to figure out more than half the timings to do almost all forms of cancels, and to me I don't actually deserve to be able to pull that stuff off.

It may be a strange way for some of you to look at it but it should still be acknowledged as a completely legitimate claim.

 

[CheeseKao]

That still does not prove that the advanced combat in DmC, based on what the demo provided us, is better than DMC4.

DmC's learning curve in terms of acquiring skill and mastering different techniques, is dumbed down considerably. It does not take much time to master the moves within the demo compared to the full game of DMC4, which is what I have been talking about this whole time. DMC4's combat system, when played at a high level, require much, MUCH more precision and timing in terms of execution. You keep throwing your opinion into this argument in terms of "what is better" when I'm talking to you about a subject that deals with how precise and technical advanced combat is.

It's like comparing Super Smash Brothers Melee to Super Smash Brothers Brawl in a technical aspect. Melee is deemed far more advanced than Brawl can ever be due to how good your execution needs to be when doing different things.

I'm not talking about how versatile something is.
I'm not talking about how regular combat is better/worse. (Which you are thinking this for some reason)
I'm talking about how advanced combat in DMC4 is steeper than DmC based off what we've seen so far.

Compared to a video like this:



DMC4 is beyond in terms of difficulty in gaining advanced skill.



And if you don't understand the videos that I posted about DMC4, I have a entire playlist about tutorials that I've made showing how deep DMC4's gameplay in my signature.

And to be honest, I've only covered about 60% of what you can do you in DMC4 in my tutorials. DmC's advanced gameplay is nothing compared to that.


Base combat maybe better, yes I can agree with that.
But the learning curve to acquire skill in DmC is dumbed down dramatically. Making it a lot easier to perform advanced techniques, just like Jump Cancelling.

Come on man. DMC4's combat may be deeper than that of DmC but comparing a combo video from a demo to a full game is just not right. And some parts of those videos use turbo mode to look more impressive too so it's a bit unfair tbh.

 

[ChaserTech]

For me it's kinda like this for combat throughout the franchise.
DMC1 - Intro to hack n' slash and noticed how much I liked the difficulty.
DMC2 - Didn't like the weapons being same actions, slightly different effects. Amulet system was great N' all but I couldn't see why you couldn't have just had almost all the abilities at once since to change it you just went into the pause menu. In terms of difficulty, not a huge step.
DMC3 - Really upped the bar for difficulty and room for improvement. Probably the most enjoyment any game has ever given me from purchase onwards. So much fun trying all sorts of new stuff out.
DMC3:SE - Turbo with Vergil = Extension to my already max enjoyment for the combat
DMC4 - A major step up for combat and room to improve.

I don't see what DmC can possibly add to experience with the franchise if the combat technicality is less than DMC3/4. I mean it looks like it'll offer what has already happened for me in other games. Though I've played a lot of games so I can understand from a newcomer/bit more casual gamer standpoint this game will be amazing. But still it would be nice if they included more innovation combat wise for people in similar situations.

Agreed. DmC's combat system maybe intagrating things from old games, as well as adding the ability to switch weapons during a pause combo and continue that combo, but I haven't seen anything that made advanced combat harder.

I'm far from being considered pro in DMC4, yet I went into DmC demo for such a short time and still managed to figure out more than half the timings to do almost all forms of cancels, and to me I don't actually deserve to be able to pull that stuff off.

It may be a strange way for some of you to look at it but it should still be acknowledged as a completely legitimate claim.

It took me 3 hours to master out all of the advanced tech that DmC had to offer within the demo. (JCing, Weapon Switching, E&I shots, Prop Cancelling, etc.).

And it has taken me YEARS to reach where I'm at now in DMC4. And I'm still climbing to this day. Even DMC4 with Turbo mode off, I have problems executing a lot of things. I even find UMVC3 Dante a bit more challenging than DmC Dante in terms of a steep learning curve. (I know UMVC3 and DmC are entirely different but I'm merely talking about technical skill and technical skill applies to everything).

EDIT:

Come on man. DMC4's combat may be deeper than that of DmC but comparing a combo video from a demo to a full game is just not right. And some parts of those videos use turbo mode to look more impressive too so it's a bit unfair tbh.

I'm not the one who first compared the DmC demo to DMC4's combat system in this argument.
Chancey289 did. And I have only been supporting my point since it's illogical to think that the DmC demo requires more skill than a full game (DMC4).

 

[KenKen]

I'm agreeing with Chaser.

The learning curve in DmC is SERIOUSLY forgiving. The hitboxes, AI, and animation speed all seem to work in tandem to make the game much easier than 3 and 4 were.

That's not to say the combat is bad, per se. It seems that the point of the combat system is to make DmC accessible and fun to learn. It seems to me that rather than alienating those who were good at the old games, it's there just to give them the leg up? The same way that 4 may have been easier if you were already good at 3.
I'm no pro though

 

[ChaserTech]

I'm agreeing with Chaser.

The learning curve in DmC is SERIOUSLY forgiving. The hitboxes, AI, and animation speed all seem to work in tandem to make the game much easier than 3 and 4 were.

That's not to say the combat is bad, per se. It seems that the point of the combat system is to make DmC accessible and fun to learn. It seems to me that rather than alienating those who were good at the old games, it's there just to give them the leg up? The same way that 4 may have been easier if you were already good at 3.
I'm no pro though

Thank you. This is what I've been trying to say.

DmC's combat system teaches you right off the bat in terms of how to execute moves. I find that it's more helpful than DMC3 and DMC4 when it comes to showing you how to perform moves. The learning curve for the game is steep when you want to do advanced combos but not nearly as steep as DMC4 since half of the moves require extreme precision.

You can take any advanced technique in DmC and it won't be as complicated and strict as:

Double Weapon Switching
Guard Cancelling
Lucifer Guard Cancelling
Flying Guard + Air Hike
Star Rave
Reverse Rave
Side Rave
Reversed Attacks

and etc.

Also, I did play 3 and I mastered a bit of the combat system. 4 still seemed to be proved difficult just because I could cycle through 2 additional weapons (1 more for guns, 1 more for weapons), as well as 5 different styles. As well as this, Jump Cancelling proved a lot harder to master since the range seriously decreased with certain enemies.

 

[GF9000000Returns]

That's not the point. The point I'm trying to make is that some of you guys expect a DMC5 very soon and if DmC sells well, there will never be one because the company thinks that the old fans are becoming too old and doing more important things than gaming. Unless you are at a gaming school, you would understand.

Hell, even I've cut some gaming myself cuz I'm gettin' too old. Got other more important things to do.

Still standing by to what I've said because some people have yet to understand.

 

[ChaserTech]

Still standing by to what I've said because some people have yet to understand.

The problem is that I'm not expecting a DMC5 from this. In fact, it's safe to say that Capcom will have major problems trying to come up with a proper DMC5. What I want is something that can top DMC's gameplay.

It hasn't, therefore I'm criticizing it.