New Devil May Cry will teach casuals the "magic" of pro gaming

[Gbraga]

I had to be a cave dweller, but what does Tragic deals with?
I don't find myself playing many new games since I'm a college student and I'm broke.

tragic (Ben Cureton) is the combat designer for Darksiders II, he's also part of the FGC for a long time now (he's in the Evo2k crew) and had some very helpful videos for week 1 fighting games. His youtube channel is trag13.

 

[8BitHero]

I just recently saw this being discussed on GameFAQs not too long ago.
But honestly I have extremely mixed feelings about this.

I'm alright with having new players within the series but if the bar is set to so low for achieving "pro" gameplay, then does this make us seem a bit lazy? As well as unmotivated to gain skill?

Like I said, I have a lot of mixed feelings about it. But feel free to discus the link below.



http://www.oxm.co.uk/48901/new-devi...he-magic-of-pro-gaming-entry-bar-is-very-low/

With the way Capcom fighting games have gone this is no surprise. It doesn't matter though because you're still get those who have no idea how to play DMC and still think doing (Attack, Attack, Attack, Attack randomly bullet shots is good). It's surprising how many people don't actually bother to learn DmC or indepth mechanics games like Fighters/Resident Evil Mercs or speedrunning etc.
When the full game comes out we'll see how it goes but if I DOUBT it'll be easy to learn and it'll take some time to get to some of the tricky/advanced mechanics.

@TWOxACROSS
That's the default control scheme right? Really bad one (personally).


Mine is as (Xbox/PS3 are the same)
X = Jump
Square = Attack
Triangle = DT
Circle = Special Attack
L1 = Angel Mode
R1 = Evade
L2 = Demon mode
R2 = Shoot
R3 = Camera Snap

 

[ChaserTech]

tragic (Ben Cureton) is the combat designer for Darksiders II, he's also part of the FGC for a long time now (he's in the Evo2k crew) and had some very helpful videos for week 1 fighting games. His youtube channel is trag13.

I've seen his username before. lol his UMVC3/MVC3 vids are sick.

With the way Capcom fighting games have gone this is no surprise. It doesn't matter though because you're still get those who have no idea how to play DMC and still think doing (Attack, Attack, Attack, Attack randomly bullet shots is good). It's surprising how many people don't actually bother to learn DmC or indepth mechanics games like Fighters/Resident Evil Mercs or speedrunning etc.
When the full game comes out we'll see how it goes but if I DOUBT it'll be easy to learn and it'll take some time to get to some of the tricky/advanced mechanics.

True. Capcom does has some low bar entry games in terms of playability.
But my main concern is how advanced and technical combos will be when the full game comes out.

 

[Gbraga]

I do think it kinda backfired (they lowering the bar, that is), they believe they would help casual players like that, but still if you see the previews, all they do is pretty much mash hacker ALL DAY. If this confirms for all kinds of players, all they did was hurt the more advanced players while not doing anything for the more casual audience, which is pretty ****ty.

I hope I'm wrong and a lot more people will start playing those games in-depth than before.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

@TWOxACROSS
That's the default control scheme right? Really bad one (personally).


Mine is as (Xbox/PS3 are the same)
X = Jump
Square = Attack
Triangle = DT
Circle = Special Attack
L1 = Angel Mode
R1 = Evade
L2 = Demon mode
R2 = Shoot
R3 = Camera Snap

I modified mine so the mode triggers were on the top shoulder buttons - I just like holding them more (on the PS3) And I wanted to be able to consistently do the Gun Specials, so having their own button was nice, too, since I'm a Gunslinger at heart.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

I do think it kinda backfired (they lowering the bar, that is), they believe they would help casual players like that, but still if you see the previews, all they do is pretty much mash hacker ALL DAY. If this confirms for all kinds of players, all they did was hurt the more advanced players while not doing anything for the more casual audience, which is pretty ****ty.

I hope I'm wrong and a lot more people will start playing those games in-depth than before.

Unfortunately, that's to be expected with a lot of people :/ They hear "hack 'n' slash" and just go in jamming one attack button, without learning properties or anything that's just under the skin. Heck, I did that when I first played DMC1 oh so many years ago, but when I saw all the cool sh*t I could do if I applied myself, I put on my big boy pants and tried harder.

Luckily, the loading screen combo examples throws those possibilities in your face, so for someone to just be mashing attack buttons, they'll see these and be like "What...how do I do all that?" One would hope, at least >.<

If a person doesn't want to get better, that's on them, not the game, y'know?

 

[ChaserTech]

I modified mine so the mode triggers were on the top shoulder buttons - I just like holding them more (on the PS3) And I wanted to be able to consistently do the Gun Specials, so having their own button was nice, too, since I'm a Gunslinger at heart.

Don't know why, but I'm a huge fan of Twosome Time. Just something about it makes me feel that I control more space than I actually do.

Also, not sure if you have, but you should check out the DmC vs DMC4 speed comparison thread if you haven't already.
The video is basic, but it gets the job done. And it sorta explains on why people think DmC's combat is "slow".

 

[8BitHero]

I've seen his username before. lol his UMVC3/MVC3 vids are sick.



True. Capcom does has some low bar entry games in terms of playability.
But my main concern is how advanced and technical combos will be when the full game comes out.

Indeed. I'm thinking it'll be like Marvel vs Capcom 3 where completely meh combos will get you far, BUT(!) there will be those willing to push what's capable of the engine. I honestly believe that once we get the full game, all the upgrades and abilities we will have some seriously awesome shi- coming from this game.
The Eurogamer topic shows some of the move upgrades so I think we can expect a lot of this game.
Prop (cancel) > guns (cance) > re-prop is pretty advanced. That's just the demo.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Don't know why, but I'm a huge fan of Twosome Time. Just something about it makes me feel that I control more space than I actually do.

Also, not sure if you have, but you should check out the DmC vs DMC4 speed comparison thread if you haven't already.
The video is basic, but it gets the job done. And it sorta explains on why people think DmC's combat is "slow".

Yeah, I looooved Twosome Time, but Rainstorm won my heart. I swear Twosome Time has a vaguely conical blast radius, because I've hit enemies that weren't in direct line with E&I's bores, which I can understand they probably did to make up for the lack of precision you get. Either way, I'll always be a Gunslinger.

And yeah, I just watched it. Very enlightening. I honestly don't think DmC's combat is "slow" and is about on par with DMC's caliber. As usual, "THIS SH*T IS SLOW!" is very much hyperbole :/

 

[Chancey289]

I love the new combat system in DmC because it's something I always wanted for the franchise. To be honest I was never a fan of styles because of the restriction it gives you in combat. I can only do certain things at certain times which in DmC it's like a hybrid of everything and more. My favorite techniques are here like the spinning gun move from gunslinger to the spinning sword move in swordmaster via scyth. Just being able to switch between any weapon at anytime on the fly is awesome and each weapon has a list of unique moves. Especially I see also every single weapon has a pause combo on the ground and in the air. So much variety! Seriously, anyone who says any different is just ingnorant because DmC's combat is actually very deep and being easy to learn is how games should be. Easy to learn but hard to master and this game really delivers that.

I can see this game allowing new players to jump in but with as much room for experimentation DmC allows, other players will inevitably get better than others and I can see people discussing their own techniques and combos they come up with. When I saw my brother play the demo we pretty much played it differently. While I stuck to my Rebellion and Scyth he really loved that demon and angel pull to stay in the air. When you have a combat system that can have different people playing how they see fit you have a winner there. I've haven't had this much fun with Devil May Cry since playing the first one for the very first time. I'll call it right here to say DmC will be one of the more stronger titles of 2013.

 

[WorkenOnMaLeft]

I actually just turned Gun Special into a key of its own, makes it easier. Right now, my (PS3) control scheme is...

X = Jump
Square = Shoot
Triangle = Melee Attack
Circle = Special Attack
L1 = Angel Mode
R1 = Demon Mode
L2 = Gun Special
R2 = Evade
L3 = Target Switch
R3 = Camera Snap
D-Pad Down = Devil Trigger

If you don't use Demon Evade all that much, replacing an Evade button with the Gun Special is easier. Heck, I still Demon Evade, and I work fine with that set-up I'z gotz teh tricky fingaz

yea i did the same thing, i changed the demon mode to L1 so i could have one dodge button and set the gun special to R2 to make it more comfortable to pull off. i also switched the jump and melee special buttons to make it easier to jumpcancel out of regular melee attacks

 

[Gbraga]

I love the new combat system in DmC because it's something I always wanted for the franchise. To be honest I was never a fan of styles because of the restriction it gives you in combat. I can only do certain things at certain times which in DmC it's like a hybrid of everything and more. My favorite techniques are here like the spinning gun move from gunslinger to the spinning sword move in swordmaster via scyth. Just being able to switch between any weapon at anytime on the fly is awesome and each weapon has a list of unique moves. Especially I see also every single weapon has a pause combo on the ground and in the air. So much variety! Seriously, anyone who says any different is just ingnorant because DmC's combat is actually very deep and being easy to learn is how games should be. Easy to learn but hard to master and this game really delivers that.

I can see this game allowing new players to jump in but with as much room for experimentation DmC allows, other players will inevitably get better than others and I can see people discussing their own techniques and combos they come up with. When I saw my brother play the demo we pretty much played it differently. While I stuck to my Rebellion and Scyth he really loved that demon and angel pull to stay in the air. When you have a combat system that can have different people playing how they see fit you have a winner there. I've haven't had this much fun with Devil May Cry since playing the first one for the very first time. I'll call it right here to say DmC will be one of the more stronger titles of 2013.

You were doing well until this.

Also, seems like you didn't play DMC4.

 

[Chancey289]

Plus I really like how the new lock on system works because to simply change which enemy I'm fighting is simply changing the direction I'm attacking and that makes sense. Lock on is something that isn't needed and we used it to just launch an enemy up in the air half the time. Also I found myself really annoyed by lock on because the fixed camera angles would change your sense of direction. I was guessing sometimes what direction is which for Dante back then. Simple changes like rotating the camera with the right stick is a very welcome change as well.

 

[GF9000000Returns]

So maybe this game is truly for beginners huh? Meh...who cares, as long as I enjoy the gameplay and the story then that's all that matters.

Besides most of the DMC fans are like 20 and over (gonna be 20 this year so don't bash me), shouldn't they do something move on to something else like school? I remember the director of Guilty Gear said there are no new games for the series (as of now) because they're "too old", that's what got me to saying that.

 

[Chancey289]

You were doing well until this.

Also, seems like you didn't play DMC4.

I was one and done with DMC 4 because I didn't like hardly at all. It was a very lazy game and a solid combat system did not save it from being a crap game. It was a prime example of a series pushed through the ringer after being shaken down for sequels and pretty much showed me Capcom was all out of ideas with this franchise.

 

[ChaserTech]

I was one and done with DMC 4 because I didn't like hardly at all. It was a very lazy game and a solid combat system did not save it from being a crap game. It was a prime example of a series pushed through the ringer after being shaken down for sequels and pretty much showed me Capcom was all out of ideas with this franchise.

That doesn't mean that the combat system wasn't strong itself.
Nor did it mean that the combat system didn't have on the fly weapon/style switching. Which people seem to keep ignoring.

 

[GF9000000Returns]

I was one and done with DMC 4 because I didn't like hardly at all. It was a very lazy game and a solid combat system did not save it from being a crap game. It was a prime example of a series pushed through the ringer after being shaken down for sequels and pretty much showed me Capcom was all out of ideas with this franchise.

Then BOOM! This reboot was made.

 

[ChaserTech]

So maybe this game is truly for beginners huh? Meh...who cares, as long as I enjoy the gameplay and the story then that's all that matters.

Besides most of the DMC fans are like 20 and over (gonna be 20 this year so don't bash me), shouldn't they do something move on to something else like school? I remember the director of Guilty Gear said there are no new games for the series (as of now) because they're "too old", that's what got me to saying that.

People haven't moved on from Marvel vs Capcom 2, Super Smash Brothers Melee, or Street Fighter Third Strike.
Just because the game is old doesn't mean we have to move away from it.
We still find it enjoyable to play and that is what matters to us. That's why we still play it.

 

[Chancey289]

That doesn't mean that the combat system wasn't strong itself.
Nor did it mean that the combat system didn't have on the fly weapon/style switching. Which people seem to keep ignoring.

Like I said I was never a fan of styles which is why I was so relieved and impressed with what DmC was doing. To be honest I kind of hate DMC 4. It was one of the worst games that year for me. A big let down especially since it was coming off such a winner like DMC 3.

 

[Gbraga]

Plus I really like how the new lock on system works because to simply change which enemy I'm fighting is simply changing the direction I'm attacking and that makes sense. Lock on is something that isn't needed and we used it to just launch an enemy up in the air half the time. Also I found myself really annoyed by lock on because the fixed camera angles would change your sense of direction. I was guessing sometimes what direction is which for Dante back then. Simple changes like rotating the camera with the right stick is a very welcome change as well.

I'm sorry, but you have NO IDEA of what you're talking about. Hard lock-on is not about only the targeting system, and the auto lock is not bad just because the targeting is off, it's also bad because it limits the moveset and results in a crowd control focused gameplay with huge hitboxes.

It's not just "what's your favorite targeting system?" it's a lot more.