Nero's origins - What do you think?

[Enigma]

I remembered something....If i remember right Sanctus absorbed Nero because he needed Sparda's Blood, so basically it confirms at least that Nero is blood related to Sparda...

Yeah. But it seemed pretty obvious to me that he was related to Sparda, anyway. I mean, who else in the DMC universe has white hair? It's said to be the trademark of the Sparda family. Who else has tremendous strength? I mean, Nero often fought demons on his own, while most humans even have a tough time fighting weak demons. Aside from that, he talks and moves like he's related to Sparda. Even the symbolism confirms he's related to him (Red Queen, Blue Rose, blue coat, red shirt). Hell, even Berial says he's just like Sparda.

If he's not a son of Sparda, or the son of Dante or Vergil, then he's definitely the son of one of Sparda's relatives - assuming Sparda had any relatives left.

 

[Innsmouth]

Yeah. But it seemed pretty obvious to me that he was related to Sparda, anyway. I mean, who else in the DMC universe has white hair? It's said to be the trademark of the Sparda family. Who else has tremendous strength? I mean, Nero often fought demons on his own, while most humans even have a tough time fighting weak demons. Aside from that, he talks and moves like he's related to Sparda Even the symbolism confirms he's related to him (Red Queen, Blue Rose, blue coat, red shirt). Hell, even Berial says he's just like Sparda.

If he's not a son of Sparda, or the son of Dante or Vergil, then he's definitely the son of one of Sparda's relatives - assuming Sparda had any relatives left.

Very true. So even if they haven't planned him to be Vergil son, they obviously intended to connect him to Sparda.

 

[Enigma]

Very true. So even if they haven't planned him to be Vergil son, they obviously intended to connect him to Sparda.

I'm not even sure he was intended to be Vergil's son. When you look at some early concept art of Nero, you can see that he has a full Devil Trigger, and it looks blue and red, exactly like his arm. So... maybe Capcom just decided that since Vergil was so popular, they should make Nero his son, so that Nero would share Vergil's popularity. That would explain why Nero has no real Devil Trigger, and instead has a 'Devil Bringer' arm: Capcom decided they wanted a new gameplay element, so they kept his Devil Trigger arm.
...And then they realized there was no way to explain his arm, so they thought 'bummer' and rebooted the entire series. Of course, that isn't the only reason for the reboot, but it is still an important one.

 

[Innsmouth]

I'm not even sure he was intended to be Vergil's son. When you look at some early concept art of Nero, you can see that he has a full Devil Trigger, and it looks blue and red, exactly like his arm. So... maybe Capcom just decided that since Vergil was so popular, they should make Nero his son, so that Nero would share Vergil's popularity. That would explain why Nero has no real Devil Trigger, and instead has a 'Devil Bringer' arm: Capcom decided they wanted a new gameplay element, so they kept his Devil Trigger arm.
...And then they realized there was no way to explain his arm, so they thought 'bummer' and rebooted the entire series. Of course, that wasn't the only reason for the reboot, but it was still an important one.

I think they rebooted franchise, because of people who complained about DMC4 and because of their "CoD sells better" attitude in recent couple of years I think they could have explained Devil Arm, like suppressed gens or something like that

 

[Enigma]

I think they rebooted franchise, because of people who complained about DMC4 and because of their "CoD sells better" attitude in recent couple of years I think they could have explained Devil Arm, like suppressed gens or something like that

Maybe they could've explained it, I'm not sure... it would become a bit of a strange story, I think. As for complaints about DMC4, well, I don't remember people complaining that much about the game when it was released. Overall, people liked it. More importantly to Capcom, it also got good reviews and made them 2.8 million dollars, which I believe was above their estimate.
But it is quite possible that they got obsessed with 'westernizing' stuff, because as you said, they literally said they wanted to get as much popularity as CoD and other mainstream western games. That is no doubt an important factor.

 

[Innsmouth]

Maybe they could've explained it, I'm not sure... it would become a bit of a strange story, I think. As for complaints about DMC4, well, I don't remember people complaining that much about the game when it was released. Overall, people liked it. More importantly to Capcom, it also got good reviews and made them 2.8 million dollars, which I believe was above their estimate.
But it is quite possible that they got obsessed with 'westernizing' stuff, because as you said, they literally said they wanted to get as much popularity as CoD and other mainstream western games.

it's true. Main complaints started much later. I think problem is that capcom lost most of their creative people, so they just looked for a cheap way out of their situation

 

[Enigma]

What I know cannot be true:

- He's not a son of Sparda, since Sparda died before Eva did. Eva died when D&V were eight.
- He's not the reincarnation of Sparda, since reincarnation doesn't work that way. If he were a reincarnation, he would not have Sparda's blood.
- He is not Vergil or Dante's son, considering the small age gap. If Vergil would be about thirty in DMC4, Nero can't be seventeen. Vergil would not have a child with a human, and probably would not be stupid enough to have sex with a human either. And he certainly didn't have sex at the age of twelve or thirteen.

So, these are the possibilities:

1. Nero is the son of a relative of Sparda's, and was left on the steps of the Fortuna orphanage. This would make him a half-demon like Dante, though possibly less powerful. However, this would undermine the fact that the story of DMC focuses on the legacy of Sparda himself.

2. He wasn't ''left on the steps of the orphanage'', (suspicious indeed) but he was created from DNA by somebody, perhaps by an unknown scientist at the Order of the Sword. It can't be Agnus, since he knew nothing about Nero's powers. Note, however, that Sanctus knows a lot about Nero.

3. He is in some other way related to Sparda by blood. After all, if Sanctus is to be believed, he is a ''descendant of Sparda's blood'' and ''carries the blood of Sparda''.

I realize Nero is one big mistake, mainly due to the nonsensical Devil Bringer arm. That said, I hope Capcom can look at these posts and find a way to make sense of Nero. I hope they either make a DMC5 with him in the leading role, or DMC5 with a DMC1/DMC2 combination Dante (no Nero).

 

[TonyRedgraveDMC]

What I know cannot be true:

- He's not a son of Sparda, since Sparda died before Eva did. Eva died when D&V were eight.
- He's not the reincarnation of Sparda, since reincarnation doesn't work that way. If he were a reincarnation, he would not have Sparda's blood.
- He is not Vergil or Dante's son, considering the small age gap. If Vergil would be about thirty in DMC4, Nero can't be seventeen. Vergil would not have a child with a human, and certainly not at the age of twelve or thirteen.

So, these are the possibilities:

1. Nero is the son of a relative of Sparda's, and was left on the steps of the Fortuna orphanage. This would make him a half-demon like Dante, though possibly less powerful.

2. He wasn't ''left on the steps of the orphanage'', (suspicious indeed) but he was created from DNA by somebody, perhaps by an unknown scientist. It can't be Agnus, since he knew nothing about Nero's powers.

3. He is in some other way related to Sparda by blood. After all, if Sanctus is to be believed, he is a ''descendant of Sparda's blood'' and ''carries the blood of Sparda''.

I realize Nero is one big mistake, mainly due to the nonsensical Devil Bringer arm. That said, I hope Capcom can look at these posts and find a way to make sense of Nero. I hope they either make a DMC5 with him in the leading role, or DMC5 with a DMC1/DMC2 combination Dante (no Nero).

For starters, I do NOT believe that the age approximations are accurate when considering Nero's heritage. Secondly, with the right amount of estimations, Vergil would STILL fall into a reasonable child producing age bracket, albeit a young one. As for the prostitute, that's EXACTLY why it was a prostitute, a human whom Vergil had sexual intercourse with and whom Vergil would not have direct contact with following the encounter. Someone mentioned "unprotected" intercourse: I have no idea what time period Devil May Cry 3 would fall into, but I can't say for sure if there was or was not any reliable birth control during said time period. MOST sources claim Nero is Vergil's son, so it's the one I'm going with. However, the ONLY other PLAUSIBLE explanation is that Sanctus DID begin some sort of "Neo-Sparda" Initiative and someone before Agnus' time was responsible for the details, and caused something quite similar to a few plot details from the game Enchanted Arms --> 5:05 - 8:07 and perhaps the Vergil (AND/OR Dante) cells slowly matured his hair to white (similar to how a baby/toddler might have blond hair and have red/brunette hair in later years) and it wasn't until either the demon attack injured Nero's arm (and/or caused him to go berserk to save Kyrie) that his arm physically changed because of the splice. The biggest problem with this theory is 1. Some random dying kid orphan? 2. Agnus not knowing / Insert Agnus' unrevealed predecessor.

 

[Zero]

For starters, I do NOT believe that the age approximations are accurate when considering Nero's heritage. Secondly, with the right amount of estimations, Vergil would STILL fall into a reasonable child producing age bracket, albeit a young one. As for the prostitute, that's EXACTLY why it was a prostitute, a human whom Vergil had sexual intercourse with and whom Vergil would not have direct contact with following the encounter. Someone mentioned "unprotected" intercourse: I have no idea what time period Devil May Cry 3 would fall into, but I can't say for sure if there was or was not any reliable birth control during said time period. MOST sources claim Nero is Vergil's son, so it's the one I'm going with. However, the ONLY other PLAUSIBLE explanation is that Sanctus DID begin some sort of "Neo-Sparda" Initiative and someone before Agnus' time was responsible for the details, and caused something quite similar to a few plot details from the game Enchanted Arms --> 5:05 - 8:07 and perhaps the Vergil (AND/OR Dante) cells slowly matured his hair to white (similar to how a baby/toddler might have blond hair and have red/brunette hair in later years) and it wasn't until either the demon attack injured Nero's arm (and/or caused him to go berserk to save Kyrie) that his arm physically changed because of the splice. The biggest problem with this theory is 1. Some random dying kid orphan? 2. Agnus not knowing / Insert Agnus' unrevealed predecessor.

I agree. Someone told me the director stated DMC4 was 10 years after DMC3. (I think...) That doesn't make sense to me personally as wouldn't that place DMC4 a VERY short time after DMC1? Isn't that where the anime is supposed to be? No one's posted a source for that interview in years, anyway.

It's basically like saying that DMC1, the anime, and DMC4, ALL take place within the span of one year. I don't think would they intentionally have such a cramped timeline. They usually liked to place each game about 10 years apart.

Imagine if it was actually 10 years after DMC1, not DMC3. Dante'd be 38/39 instead of 28/29 which leave plenty of time for Nero to be born. Vergil would've been early twenties, if Nero is 17.

Capcom could put all doubts to rest if they'd just publish an official timeline. It'd be a lot better than this "oh he said this in the interview" nonsense. Even if it's true, interviews can be easily retconned.

As for the prostitute thing, correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that was just Sanctus's assumption, not necessarily a fact.

 

[Enigma]

For starters, I do NOT believe that the age approximations are accurate when considering Nero's heritage. Secondly, with the right amount of estimations, Vergil would STILL fall into a reasonable child producing age bracket, albeit a young one. As for the prostitute, that's EXACTLY why it was a prostitute, a human whom Vergil had sexual intercourse with and whom Vergil would not have direct contact with following the encounter.

and perhaps the Vergil (AND/OR Dante) cells slowly matured his hair to white (similar to how a baby/toddler might have blond hair and have red/brunette hair in later years) and it wasn't until either the demon attack injured Nero's arm (and/or caused him to go berserk to save Kyrie) that his arm physically changed because of the splice. The biggest problem with this theory is 1. Some random dying kid orphan? 2. Agnus not knowing / Insert Agnus' unrevealed predecessor.

*We don't know Nero's heritage, that's pretty much the point. We know he's of the Sparda bloodline, but that's all we know at this point. We still don't have evidence he's Vergil's son, aside from a novel written by DMC4's writer at the time when he wasn't working for Capcom. So we can't consider Nero's heritage before considering all the facts.
I don't see Vergil as somebody who would have a child just like that. If he wanted to continue the Sparda legacy, he would not be so stupid as to have sex with a prostitute, protected or not. It doesn't really suit his personality, either.

As for Nero's white hair, there is no evidence to suggest he hasn't always had white hair. Granted, there is no real evidence he has either, but I do remember something saying he was picked by Credo and Kyrie's family out of the orphanage because he had white hair, which was appealing to them, because... Sparda. :laugh:
I also don't see why Sparda's (or Dante/Vergil's) DNA would slowly turn his hair white. I have never seen people in real life start out with dark hair, getting really light hair later. All I've seen is that people's hair color usually gets darker over time. I myself used to have fairly light blond hair, but in my teenage years it became brown. And even if it did work like that, how would you be able to know that Nero was an experiment? Because then D&V must've gone through the same change in hair color as Nero.

The problems with the 'experiment' theory aren't that big. For one, it's possible that Sanctus and his researcher(s) created Nero - as in, they took some of Sparda/Vergil/Dante's DNA and created him from scratch, not from a random orphan. Then they left him at the orphanage. OR the orphanage story is nonsense, and the Order raised him from the moment of birth. I think that is likely, because Nero being 'left at the steps of the orphanage' sounds fishy.

 

[Enigma]

I agree. Someone told me the director stated DMC4 was 10 years after DMC3. (I think...) That doesn't make sense to me personally as wouldn't that place DMC4 a VERY short time after DMC1? Isn't that where the anime is supposed to be? No one's posted a source for that interview in years, anyway.

It's basically like saying that DMC1, the anime, and DMC4, ALL take place within the span of one year. I don't think would they intentionally have such a cramped timeline. They usually liked to place each game about 10 years apart.

Imagine if it was actually 10 years after DMC1, not DMC3. Dante'd be 38/39 instead of 28/29 which leave plenty of time for Nero to be born. Vergil would've been early twenties, if Nero is 17.

Capcom could put all doubts to rest if they'd just publish an official timeline. It'd be a lot better than this "oh he said this in the interview" nonsense. Even if it's true, interviews can be easily retconned.

As for the prostitute thing, correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that was just Sanctus's assumption, not necessarily a fact.

Well, Kobayashi (I think) said it took place *around* ten years after DMC3. That could mean anything from ten to thirteen, really. If it were fourteen years, he would've said ''around fifteen years after DMC3''. In DMC4, Dante could be 29 to 33, which is a pretty wide estimate. A lot can happen in one or two years. I just think it would be amazingly weird if Kobayashi made the mistake of saying ten years instead of twenty.
I don't know about the prostitute - I think it was just a theory from the fans. Sanctus never said anything about a prostitute in DMC4. And the novel may or may not be canon.

 

[Meg]

I know the first two novels aren't considered canon. I don't know why this one would be.

Maybe it's a conspiracy???

 

[TonyRedgraveDMC]

Everyone likes to think Vergil had children in mind when he had sex, but the reality that BEST applies to Vergil is he did it for his needs. Also, we don't know enough about the setting to assume contraceptives are readily available to Vergil at the time, and the prostitute thing may have been Sanctus bad-mouthing the woman Vergil slept with, because while religion isn't confirmed in the DMC-verse, God is mentioned, so assuming Vergil had not claimed the woman as HIS woman (as a substitute to legal marriage, assuming legal marriage is a common thing to assume he could have chosen) it would be typical to look down on the unmarried woman. DMC Sparda & Eva were considered married, but Vergil likely wouldn't marry Nero's mother. The experiment theory is very far-fetched due to lack of knowledge by the individuals involved, and the Vergil's offspring theory is complicated due to OUR LACK OF RELIABLE TIME TABLES.

 

[Meg]

I just thought of something that could explain Nero-being-Vergil's-son thing.

Regardless if Vergil was 14 or 17 at the time, the point is that he was teenage boy. Assuming he isn't asexual or demisexual, you can bet he was desiring some :wink: :wink:. As a teenager who became an orphan at eight, he probably didn't get "the talk." You know, the one about puberty and such. So, even though it doesn't seem in character for Vergil to have sex with a human, we're basing that on how Vergil is as an adult. We didn't see him when he was younger and probably really confused about himself.

When you look at it that way, it isn't far-fetched at all to think Vergil had sex with a prostitute (or any woman for that matter), which resulted in Nero.

 

[TonyRedgraveDMC]

I just thought of something that could explain Nero-being-Vergil's-son thing.

Regardless if Vergil was 14 or 17 at the time, the point is that he was teenage boy. Assuming he isn't asexual or demisexual, you can bet he was desiring some :wink: :wink:. As a teenager who became an orphan at eight, he probably didn't get "the talk." You know, the one about puberty and such. So, even though it doesn't seem in character for Vergil to have sex with a human, we're basing that on how Vergil is as an adult. We didn't see him when he was younger and probably really confused about himself.

When you look at it that way, it isn't far-fetched at all to think Vergil had sex with a prostitute (or any woman for that matter), which resulted in Nero.

FINALLY, someone understands my point! Thank you! People often want to foolishly look at DMC through a politically correct point of view, which I strongly believe is wrong to do. Vergil is STILL within the realm of realism, don't judge him with YOUR typical real world+current generational mentality.

 

[Meg]

FINALLY, someone understands my point! Thank you! People often want to foolishly look at DMC through a politically correct point of view, which I strongly believe is wrong to do. Vergil is STILL within the realm of realism, don't judge him with YOUR typical real world+current generational mentality.

Well it finally happened. It only took like six years, but I'm finally on the "Nero is Vergil's son" train. I'm having mixed feelings about this.

 

[Enigma]

Everyone likes to think Vergil had children in mind when he had sex, but the reality that BEST applies to Vergil is he did it for his needs. Also, we don't know enough about the setting to assume contraceptives are readily available to Vergil at the time, and the prostitute thing may have been Sanctus bad-mouthing the woman Vergil slept with, because while religion isn't confirmed in the DMC-verse, God is mentioned, so assuming Vergil had not claimed the woman as HIS woman (as a substitute to legal marriage, assuming legal marriage is a common thing to assume he could have chosen) it would be typical to look down on the unmarried woman. DMC Sparda & Eva were considered married, but Vergil likely wouldn't marry Nero's mother. The experiment theory is very far-fetched due to lack of knowledge by the individuals involved, and the Vergil's offspring theory is complicated due to OUR LACK OF RELIABLE TIME TABLES.

I don't see him as someone who would have casual sex with someone just for the hell of it. If he had sex, then he wanted a kid. If he didn't, then Vergil really must've been more stupid than he seems in DMC3. He takes Sparda's legacy very seriously, and we need to remember that it doesn 't matter what is 'realistic'. It's Capcom's call, and I think they already had *one* kind of Vergil in mind. They don't care about what is the most likely or logical.

And I don't see why the experiment theory is any more far-fetched than anything else. Considering Sanctus knows much more than he lets on, it's quite possible Nero is some kind of experiment created from Sparda's DNA (since the Order is focused so much on Sparda). I remember Agnus saying it had only been a few years since he started his research, so he was probably not even a member of the Order back then.

Yes, it's mainly speculation, but so are the other theories. We just don't know.

 

[TonyRedgraveDMC]

I don't see him as someone who would have casual sex with someone just for the hell of it. If he had sex, then he wanted a kid. If he didn't, then Vergil really must've been more stupid than he seems in DMC3. He takes Sparda's legacy very seriously, and we need to remember that it doesn 't matter what is 'realistic'. It's Capcom's call, and I think they already had *one* kind of Vergil in mind. They don't care about what is the most likely or logical.

And I don't see why the experiment theory is any more far-fetched than anything else. Considering Sanctus knows much more than he lets on, it's quite possible Nero is some kind of experiment created from Sparda's DNA (since the Order is focused so much on Sparda). I remember Agnus saying it had only been a few years since he started his research, so he was probably not even a member of the Order back then.

Yes, it's mainly speculation, but so are the other theories. We just don't know.

Woah. Can you quote Agnus real quick? That might make it a bit more plausible, but still, some random orphan?

 

[Innsmouth]

I agree. Someone told me the director stated DMC4 was 10 years after DMC3. (I think...) That doesn't make sense to me personally as wouldn't that place DMC4 a VERY short time after DMC1? Isn't that where the anime is supposed to be? No one's posted a source for that interview in years, anyway.

It's basically like saying that DMC1, the anime, and DMC4, ALL take place within the span of one year. I don't think would they intentionally have such a cramped timeline. They usually liked to place each game about 10 years apart.

Imagine if it was actually 10 years after DMC1, not DMC3. Dante'd be 38/39 instead of 28/29 which leave plenty of time for Nero to be born. Vergil would've been early twenties, if Nero is 17.

Capcom could put all doubts to rest if they'd just publish an official timeline. It'd be a lot better than this "oh he said this in the interview" nonsense. Even if it's true, interviews can be easily retconned.

As for the prostitute thing, correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that was just Sanctus's assumption, not necessarily a fact.

IT all comes from statement that Lady is 10 years older than in DMC3....but than again maybe it wasn't 100% accurate.

 

[TonyRedgraveDMC]

IT all comes from statement that Lady is 10 years older than in DMC3....but than again maybe it wasn't 100% accurate.

I'm in the "10 years is a rough estimate" boat, and it could be 10+ years, just less than the next concrete number like 15 or 20.