Nero's origins - What do you think?

[Enigma]

''Sure you could say she LOOKS in her 20's in DMC4 (I'd disagree.)...but I'm in my 20's and I still look like a teenager. =P You can't really tell how old a person is just by looking at them.''

You'd be surprised how well it works. Usually, you can quite precisely tell how old someone is, unless they wear a lot of makeup or have had botox injections. And you know, 'usually' is good enough for me. I'm not expecting Lady to have such awesome genes that she looks thirty when she's actually forty. I'm not saying it's impossible, just unlikely considering these are game characters, not actual people.

''Sorry, no one is gonna convince me that DMC4 is only a year after DMC1 and that Dante is only 29. No, nuh uh, not happening.''

Funny, when you strongly disagree, you'd think you'd actually have some arguments as to why you feel that way. At least I, and others, have produced several arguments (that are subject to scrutiny and may or may not be true, I admit). At least some people try to make sense of the story, while others will believe anything so long as they feel comfortable with it.
You have the right to say ''I don't know, but I'll assume Dante is 40 in DMC4'', but that's not how it works. If you can't produce any kind of argument, not even a subjective or hypothetical one aside from ''Well, you can't prove it'', then why should your one-sentence opinion hold any value? I know I can't prove it - that's the whole idea of this thread. It's to think about what may or may not be true, and to find a plausible explanation.

''[Dante & Vergil are exactly 8 years old on the day of the attack] = ????''

''Sometime before their eighth birthday, Eva gave Dante and Vergil each a half of the Perfect Amulet. Eventually, Sparda died, and Eva and the twins were left alone. When Dante was eight years old, he and his family were attacked by demons. Eva was killed, and though both Vergil and Dante survived, the twins were separated, and Dante believed Vergil to have died.''

-The Devil May Cry wikia

http://devilmaycry.org/threads/birthdays-of-dante-vergil-nero.13293/

You think they just plucked this out of thin air? Forum member ktwtwis43 also brings up that the twins were eight when Eva was killed. I've only played the games, so I can't say anything about the manga/novels. However, I assume that's where this information can be found.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/928376-devil-may-cry-4/59132442

This is just a random thread I looked up in a few seconds. More info there, though that info again doesn't have an apparent source. But again, how do people make up stuff like 'Dante is 29 in DMC4'? That is far too specific to have been dreamed up.

Look, I'm not going to lightly assume things either. But Capcom has made it seem like Vergil is not the type to go around having sex lightly, whether it's to have a child or not. And since sex is not even a subject in the DMC games (aside from the given that Sparda must've had sex with Eva), I assume Vergil wouldn't be portrayed as someone who would defile Sparda's legacy by going against his DMC3 personality/character. If this indeed is Capcom's angle - if Vergil is indeed Nero's father - then they just made another blunder in terms of story, IMO. I guess I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[TonyRedgraveDMC]

''Sure you could say she LOOKS in her 20's in DMC4 (I'd disagree.)...but I'm in my 20's and I still look like a teenager. =P You can't really tell how old a person is just by looking at them.''

You'd be surprised how well it works. Usually, you can quite precisely tell how old someone is, unless they wear a lot of makeup or have had botox injections. And you know, 'usually' is good enough for me. I'm not expecting Lady to have such awesome genes that she looks thirty when she's actually forty. I'm not saying it's impossible, just unlikely considering these are game characters, not actual people.

''Sorry, no one is gonna convince me that DMC4 is only a year after DMC1 and that Dante is only 29. No, nuh uh, not happening.''

Funny, when you strongly disagree, you'd think you'd actually have some arguments as to why you feel that way. At least I, and others, have produced several arguments (that are subject to scrutiny and may or may not be true, I admit). At least some people try to make sense of the story, while others will believe anything so long as they feel comfortable with it.
You have the right to say ''I don't know, but I'll assume Dante is 40 in DMC4'', but that's not how it works. If you can't produce any kind of argument, not even a subjective or hypothetical one aside from ''Well, you can't prove it'', then why should your one-sentence opinion hold any value? I know I can't prove it - that's the whole idea of this thread. It's to think about what may or may not be true, and to find a plausible explanation.

''[Dante & Vergil are exactly 8 years old on the day of the attack] = ????''

''Sometime before their eighth birthday, Eva gave Dante and Vergil each a half of the Perfect Amulet. Eventually, Sparda died, and Eva and the twins were left alone. When Dante was eight years old, he and his family were attacked by demons. Eva was killed, and though both Vergil and Dante survived, the twins were separated, and Dante believed Vergil to have died.''

-The Devil May Cry wikia

http://devilmaycry.org/threads/birthdays-of-dante-vergil-nero.13293/

You think they just plucked this out of thin air? Forum member ktwtwis43 also brings up that the twins were eight when Eva was killed. I've only played the games, so I can't say anything about the manga/novels. However, I assume that's where this information can be found.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/928376-devil-may-cry-4/59132442

This is just a random thread I looked up in a few seconds. More info there, though that info again doesn't have an apparent source. But again, how do people make up stuff like 'Dante is 29 in DMC4'? That is far too specific to have been dreamed up.

Look, I'm not going to lightly assume things either. But Capcom has made it seem like Vergil is not the type to go around having sex lightly, whether it's to have a child or not. And since sex is not even a subject in the DMC games (aside from the given that Sparda must've had sex with Eva), I assume Vergil wouldn't be portrayed as someone who would defile Sparda's legacy by going against his DMC3 personality/character. If this indeed is Capcom's angle - if Vergil is indeed Nero's father - then they just made another blunder in terms of story, IMO. I guess I wouldn't be surprised.

Sorry, but wikis and forum threads are unreliable sources. Dante & Vergil could have been 9 or 10 on the day of the attack for all we know. I've said it multiple times and I'll say it again multiple times: regardless of HOW much younger, the event in question would have taken place BEFORE DMC3, the source of everyone's expectations about Vergil's personality and alleged focus on his father's legacy. The Vergil we all know and love mightn't have existed until AFTER this event. Also, I don't mean to claim he takes sex lightly, as the alleged prostitute (AGAIN, perhaps merely a woman whom Vergil did not marry, giving her the communal title of "whore") could have been the first and only occasion that it occurred for Vergil.

 

[Zero]

You'd be surprised how well it works. Usually, you can quite precisely tell how old someone is, unless they wear a lot of makeup or have had botox injections. And you know, 'usually' is good enough for me. I'm not expecting Lady to have such awesome genes that she looks thirty when she's actually forty. I'm not saying it's impossible, just unlikely considering these are game characters, not actual people.

Well, that is up to you. I won't try to convince you. Maybe she DID get a boob job and botox, for all we know. XD Her age is nothing but speculation. If I had to guess, I'd peg her at 35-ish. (in DMC4)

Funny, when you strongly disagree, you'd think you'd actually have some arguments as to why you feel that way.

I did, in my previous posts. Didn't want to repeat myself as no one seemed to read them anyway...;_; Apologies if it came off as rude, I meant it in a joking manner.

''[Dante & Vergil are exactly 8 years old on the day of the attack] = ????''

''Sometime before their eighth birthday, Eva gave Dante and Vergil each a half of the Perfect Amulet. Eventually, Sparda died, and Eva and the twins were left alone. When Dante was eight years old, he and his family were attacked by demons. Eva was killed, and though both Vergil and Dante survived, the twins were separated, and Dante believed Vergil to have died.''

-The Devil May Cry wikia

http://devilmaycry.org/threads/birthdays-of-dante-vergil-nero.13293/

You think they just plucked this out of thin air? Forum member ktwtwis43 also brings up that the twins were eight when Eva was killed. I've only played the games, so I can't say anything about the manga/novels. However, I assume that's where this information can be found.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/928376-devil-may-cry-4/59132442

This is just a random thread I looked up in a few seconds. More info there, though that info again doesn't have an apparent source. But again, how do people make up stuff like 'Dante is 29 in DMC4'? That is far too specific to have been dreamed up.

Look, I'm not going to lightly assume things either. But Capcom has made it seem like Vergil is not the type to go around having sex lightly, whether it's to have a child or not. And since sex is not even a subject in the DMC games (aside from the given that Sparda must've had sex with Eva), I assume Vergil wouldn't be portrayed as someone who would defile Sparda's legacy by going against his DMC3 personality/character. If this indeed is Capcom's angle - if Vergil is indeed Nero's father - then they just made another blunder in terms of story, IMO. I guess I wouldn't be surprised.

Just because it's a common misconception, doesn't mean it's true. Lot's of fans call DmC as DMC5, though there is no 5 in the title. XD Just sayin'

Wiki's are user edited and normally can't be used as "sources" unfortunately. Same with forum threads. It's like using this speculation thread as a source, it just doesn't work.

 

[Enigma]

Wiki's are user edited and normally can't be used as "sources" unfortunately. Same with forum threads. It's like using this speculation thread as a source, it just doesn't work.

True. But I'm just saying I doubt the info that 'Dante is 29' and sh*t just came from the blue. I really wouldn't get how they come up with that stuff, especially since it's so specific. So yeah, I do suspect there is some truth to it. And that's just my point: nobody here knows the truth, it's about what you suspect to be true. Nobody's saying Nero is without a doubt an experiment or whatever. But considering all the info on hand, and all the contradictions within most of it, Nero being an experiment or the son of a relative of Sparda's seems the most logical to me.

 

[Enigma]

Sorry, but wikis and forum threads are unreliable sources. Dante & Vergil could have been 9 or 10 on the day of the attack for all we know. I've said it multiple times and I'll say it again multiple times: regardless of HOW much younger, the event in question would have taken place BEFORE DMC3, the source of everyone's expectations about Vergil's personality and alleged focus on his father's legacy. The Vergil we all know and love mightn't have existed until AFTER this event. Also, I don't mean to claim he takes sex lightly, as the alleged prostitute (AGAIN, perhaps merely a woman whom Vergil did not marry, giving her the communal title of "whore") could have been the first and only occasion that it occurred for Vergil.

I KNOW. Nobody's saying it's reliable. I just want people to have all the info available, even if it's not verified. Capcom doesn't give two sh!ts about how DMC should be realistic, or about giving DMC characters good, detailed backstories. I really don't think Vergil had sex at such a young age, because it's probably not in Capcom's interest to give Vergil such a backstory. They care only about establishing a character in a certain way. And don't act like your idea holds more weight than mine. It's all just speculation just like what I've offered, and if you seriously think your opinion holds more value than mine, despite having only flimsy arguments attached to it, well... mind blown. I know a lot of my points are not evidence - neither are yours. But I do take a good look at what Capcom wants for its characters, and what has been established. And there is also no point in arguing about subjective scenarios. Seriously. If you want to show your opinion, fine, but don't go thinking you're always right. All I've heard so far from you is ''you have no proof''. Well, no sh!t... this whole thread is dedicated to ideas that have no proof.

 

[TonyRedgraveDMC]

I KNOW. Nobody's saying it's reliable! I just want people to have all the info available, even if it's not verified. Capcom doesn't give two sh!ts about how DMC should be realistic, or about giving DMC characters good, detailed backstories. I really don't think Vergil had sex at such a young age, because it's probably not in Capcom's interest to give Vergil such a backstory. They care only about establishing a character in a certain way. And don't act like your idea holds more weight than mine. It's all just speculation just like what I've offered, and if you seriously think your opinion holds more value than mine, despite having only flimsy arguments attached to it, well... mind blown. I know a lot of my points are not evidence - neither are yours. But I do take a good look at what Capcom wants for its characters, and what has been established. And there is also no point in arguing about subjective scenarios. Seriously. If you want to show your opinion, fine, but don't go thinking you're always right. All I've heard so far from you is ''you have no proof''. Well, no sh!t... this whole thread is dedicated to ideas that have no proof.

No reason to get too bent out of shape. While the thread is about what fellow fans think of the subject, it just helps having sources, to most clarify different people's points. Vergil > Nero requires ages and time periods (and sources) while Order of the Sword Experiment > Nero requires some more direct quotes from Sanctus, Agnus, Credo, Kyrie, and Nero. Neither proves anything, but the more info the merrier.

 

[Zero]

I finally found some of the interviews in question.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.wired.com/2007/10/interview-hiroy/

"Because a big part of the fan base is guys, we always put in a nice sexy character, hence Gloria. In the past we’ve used Trish, who is a recurring character, and also Lady. Lady appeared in 3, and now she’s about ten years older than she was in that one, but she’s grown up very nicely, as you’ll see."

^This guy clearly doesn't know half of us fans are girls who play it for Dante and Vergil. *cough* XD Anyway, Daimon Leon, it's seems you were correct about Lady being 10 years older.

...I could not also find the interview where it's supposedly stated Dante was 19 in DMC3. Even then, as far as I know it has never been stated how old LADY is. She could be a different age than Dante.

I'm not sure it's a good idea to base the main character Nero's birthday around what was said about a relatively minor character Lady. Or to place the entirety of DMC4 around what was said about it.

Moving on.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://archive.videogamesdaily.com/features/dmc4_iv_p1.asp

"Kobayashi: One thing is that I didn't work on DMC3 myself. "

^ So how would he know how old Lady is anyway? =/

"Kobayashi: Actually I am involved in the anime project; from the start I was involved in the process with that and the creation of the script, so it is a project I am very familiar with. You probably know that Dante is the main character, the timing is just after number one, up until four comes out. "

^ I'm still not reading that as all of DMC1, anime and DMC4 taking place within one year. He didn't give specific timing. He was just saying the order they took place in.

Unless Dante is much older in DMC3/DMC1 than we initially thought. That'd be the only way Vergil would be "old enough"

Come to think of it, what is the age of consent in Japan anyway? Maybe they have a different view on it than we do.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.gamersyde.com/news_5793_en.html

"Chronologically DMC4 is the third game in the DMC timeline. DMC3 was set first, followed by the original DMC, then DMC4 and finally DMC2."

^Again he's just stating the order they take place in. He's not giving specific times between them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'd like to point out that these were PRE-RELEASE interviews. That means information in them it outdated, and retconned in more recent material like the art book and novel.

They are speaking through a translator, so there is some room for error. Take them with a grain of salt. Also, I'm not sure about these websites...never been to them so I do not know if they are trustworthy. *shrug*

 

[Isaxkuchiki]

I guess he's Vergil's son

 

[Lord Nero]

''...I could not also find the interview where it's supposedly stated Dante was 19 in DMC3. Even then, as far as I know it has never been stated how old LADY is. She could be a different age than Dante.''

Considering you just said that it was confirmed Lady is ten years older than she was in DMC3, and she looked like she was about 20 in DMC3, that would make her about thirty in DMC4. Logic. Though to be honest she looks like she's 14 in DMC3 or something... really baby-faced.

I don't take him being Vergil's son very seriously either. Unless actual evidence is given, it's as much speculation as anything else. Still agree Nero could be experiment or something.

Anyway a moderator should close this thread... I guess. Looks liek it's been a while since good stuff was posted.

 

[TonyRedgraveDMC]

I'm just going to skim the details here which I have reviewed for myself before. "About 10 years" can be >10 or even <10, so that's a whole different thing. Also, the "age of consent" thing, there's an issue there. For starers, very sure DMC is not set in Japan (you may be meaning that since the creators are Japanese, my mistake if you were) and the generation it's meant to based in is not certain.

 

[Lord Nero]

I'm just going to skim the details here which I have reviewed for myself before. "About 10 years" can be >10 or even <10, so that's a whole different thing. Also, the "age of consent" thing, there's an issue there. For starers, very sure DMC is not set in Japan (you may be meaning that since the creators are Japanese, my mistake if you were) and the generation it's meant to based in is not certain.

Yeah but it makes sense when somebody says ''about ten years'' that it's closer to ten years than twenty. Logic. Otherwise... like has been said... it would have been ''about twenty''.

Not sure about the age of consent, but in games it's usually 18 years... just like in most places around the world. I mean... that is the age at which people are considered to have become grown up... as in that their brains have developed enough.

DMC is set in the 2000s, though not our 2000s. It's just a game universe. The year 0 was when Sparda rebelled (this is similar to the Christian view of when Jesus was born). Which is why Sparda is called the savior in DMC4. He died for their sins... same idea.

 

[TonyRedgraveDMC]

Yeah but it makes sense when somebody says ''about ten years'' that it's closer to ten years than twenty. Logic. Otherwise... like has been said... it would have been ''about twenty''.

Not sure about the age of consent, but in games it's usually 18 years... just like in most places around the world. I mean... that is the age at which people are considered to have become grown up... as in that their brains have developed enough.

DMC is set in the 2000s, though not our 2000s. It's just a game universe. The year 0 was when Sparda rebelled (this is similar to the Christian view of when Jesus was born). Which is why Sparda is called the savior in DMC4. He died for their sins... same idea.

I didn't imply 20 years was possible, because 1-2 years extra is all that is needed for the theory to still hold merit.

#1. The 18 as age of consent thing is still just an assumption
#2. When was it said Sparda rebelled in "Year 0"?

 

[Lord Nero]

I didn't imply 20 years was possible, because 1-2 years extra is all that is needed for the theory to still hold merit.

#1. The 18 as age of consent thing is still just an assumption
#2. When was it said Sparda rebelled in "Year 0"?

You are talking about the theory of Vergil being Nero's father right? Because I don't see it working. If Vergil really would be 30 in DMC4, then he had sex at age 11... like was said. A few years added to that doesn't make it much more likely.

Berial says he met Sparda 2000 years ago. It's around the year 2000 in DMC3. I'm pretty sure that was confirmed somewhere, but you can deduce it from interior decoration of houses and the bar in DMC3 too. Seems pretty late '90s to 2000. The idea is that the DMC games play out in the same time as the real world... though DMC1 comes before DMC4 and DMC3 before DMC1.

 

[Blue_Rose]

You are talking about the theory of Vergil being Nero's father right? Because I don't see it working. If Vergil really would be 30 in DMC4, then he had sex at age 11... like was said. A few years added to that doesn't make it much more likely.

Berial says he met Sparda 2000 years ago. It's around the year 2000 in DMC3. I'm pretty sure that was confirmed somewhere, but you can deduce it from interior decoration of houses and the bar in DMC3 too. Seems pretty late '90s to 2000. The idea is that the DMC games play out in the same time as the real world... though DMC1 comes before DMC4.

Vergil is the older son of Sparda. So if Dante was 18-19 in DMC3 would Vergil be in his early mid twenties (24-25)? So let's say he has intercourse at 18 with a human (Nero looks remarkably human and you know Vergil. "If my father can do it then I can too.) then the events of DMC3 (Nero is now 7) then his Nelo Angelo midlife crisis (Nero is now 17) and let's say one or two years pass. Voila. Although if I had to pick a theory, Nero being his son is my second choice.

 

[Lord Nero]

Vergil is the older son of Sparda. So if Dante was 18-19 in DMC3 would Vergil be in his early mid twenties (24-25)? So let's say he has intercourse at 18 with a human (Nero looks remarkably human and you know Vergil. "If my father can do it then I can too.) then the events of DMC3 (Nero is now 7) then his Nelo Angelo midlife crisis (Nero is now 17) and let's say one or two years pass. Voila. Although if I had to pick a theory, Nero being his son is my second choice.

Vergil is Dante's exact twin, remember? So Dante and Vergil are the same age, plus or minus a few seconds or minutes.

 

[Picard]

Well, yeah, it is all just a big screwed up family. Only thing that is obvious is that Nero is related to Sparda and that's it, really.

EDIT: Though cloning may be possible, you know how in Star Wars, they grew clones in half the time of what would be biologically required. Though it would be supremely stupid for it to actually be true.

 

[TonyRedgraveDMC]

That opens a

I believe that Nero is like the great-great grandson of Sparda or something.

Sparda was thousands of years old. As if Eva was the only woman he's ever done the deed with.

And the reason why he's not as powerful as Dante, and can't transform his entire body into a demon is because he's not a SON of Sparda. Unlike Dante, who's half-demon, Nero is probably one-tenth demon or something.

That opens a whooooole different can of worms

 

[Picard]

Considering that Nero wears both red and blue, and his attitude looks like being somewhat in between Vergil and Dante, I have become more accepting of theory that he is Sparda reincarnated...

 

[TonyRedgraveDMC]

Considering that Nero wears both red and blue, and his attitude looks like being somewhat in between Vergil and Dante, I have become more accepting of theory that he is Sparda reincarnated...

That excemps him from having Sparda's BLOOD.

 

[Lord Nero]

That excemps him from having Sparda's BLOOD.

Exactly... I ruled this out a long time ago. If he were Sparda reincarnated, he shouldn't literally have his blood. Besides, why would Sparda suddenly be reincarnated 2000 years later? Just to beat Sanctus? I'm pretty sure Dante could easily beat Sanctus if he could get inside the Savior statue.