Nero's origins - What do you think?

[Meg]

What is going on here?

I remember reading years ago that the development team of DMC4 thought that Nero's origins were obvious. What I never understood, is that if it's so obvious, why are we still trying to figure it out years later? :facepalm: I wish Capcom would just tell us. Ugh.

Out of all the theories I've seen, Nero being Vergil's son makes the least amount of sense. I read theories that he's Sparda's third son, that he (or at least his power) is the result of experiments, or that he has some other connection to Sparda. Honestly, at this point I think he was just meant to be the new protagonist. Dante was in DMC4 in a supporting role as a send of, and then Nero would take over. I don't think they point much thought into writing Nero. He was just supposed to be a younger Dante for a new console generation.

WAIT!

What if Capcom themselves had no solid idea who Nero was, so they just said the whole "oh hurr durr durr isn't it obvious who he is?" as a way of dodging the question. THAT'S IT!

 

[Chancey289]

What is going on here?

I remember reading years ago that the development team of DMC4 thought that Nero's origins were obvious. What I never understood, is that if it's so obvious, why are we still trying to figure it out years later? :facepalm: I wish Capcom would just tell us. Ugh.

Out of all the theories I've seen, Nero being Vergil's son makes the least amount of sense. I read theories that he's Sparda's third son, that he (or at least his power) is the result of experiments, or that he has some other connection to Sparda. Honestly, at this point I think he was just meant to be the new protagonist. Dante was in DMC4 in a supporting role as a send of, and then Nero would take over. I don't think they point much thought into writing Nero. He was just supposed to be a younger Dante for a new console generation.

WAIT!

What if Capcom themselves had no solid idea who Nero was, so they just said the whole "oh hurr durr durr isn't it obvious who he is?" as a way of dodging the question. THAT'S IT!

That's what I thought as it sounds like something Capcom would do. :meh:

We already know they aren't the brightest bulbs in the bunch.

 

[Innsmouth]

I'm just brutally honest if I have to and if you're acting like an obnoxious idiot then I see no reason to sugarcoat and be nice. We're not talking about DmC so talking about the original series here and where it goof is just simply staying on topic. No, I don't think DmC is perfect. My favorite of all Devil May Cry games is still the original. The very first game.

I just have this thing where if I'm a fan of something I won't sit there and try to justify or make excuses for all the wrong it does. I'll call it out just so it gets better.

And never once do we consider the series abysmal. I still love it as it's one of my favorite video game franchises next to franchises like MGS, MegaMan, and Zelda. But you're seriously just getting a bunch of crap wrong which for one makes me question how much of this series have you actually played. Yo, no one sees your points because we don't have our heads that far up our butts.

Well your "honesty" looks just like tin foiled head coupled with overblown childish ego. So I'm getting tired of people who sit and moan for 100+ words posts and whine how lame this or that was. Either you enjoy game and let other enjoy it or you decide to complain about something minor and blow up it out of proportions. I too can write whole page post about how many plot holes DmC has or how simplified it's combat system was, but i know it will look annoying to those who like it. In the end your whole "lame" stance on DMC characters has credibility only as completely subjective opinion. And trying to prove otherwise makes you to same kind of obnoxious idiot, you claims me to be.

 

[Meg]

Well your "honesty" looks just like tin foiled head coupled with overblown childish ego. So I'm getting tired of people who sit and moan for 100+ words posts and whine how lame this or that was. Either you enjoy game and let other enjoy it or you decide to complain about something minor and blow up it out of proportions. I too can write whole page post about how many plot holes DmC has or how simplified it's combat system was, but i know it will look annoying to those who like it. In the end your whole "lame" stance on DMC characters has credibility only as completely subjective opinion. And trying to prove otherwise makes you to same kind of obnoxious idiot, you claims me to be.

Hey now, how opinions are presented aside, forums are all about discussion. You can love something and still make long posts pointing out its flaws. The point is to discuss those opinions. People who like the game shouldn't be annoyed by negative opinions. Heck, DMC is my favorite series, but I know it has flaws and I don't mind discussing them. :smile:

Also, both of you, please watch your word choice. Threads have been locked over arguments like this. So please be mindful of that. I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but I'd hate for another thread to get locked.

 

[Innsmouth]

Hey now, how opinions are presented aside, forums are all about discussion. You can love something and still make long posts pointing out its flaws. The point is to discuss those opinions. People who like the game shouldn't be annoyed by negative opinions. Heck, DMC is my favorite series, but I know it has flaws and I don't mind discussing them. :smile:

Also, both of you, please watch your word choice. Threads have been locked over arguments like this. So please be mindful of that. I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but I'd hate for another thread to get locked.

Sorry, i gonna keep that in mind.
As for discussing, I'm all for discussing, but there is difference between bashing and discussing.

 

[Zero]

I guess everyone's still in denial about it, huh? Despite the evidence in DMC4 ("It's gotta stay in the family"- Dante) and the art book AND the novel which apparently confirms it.

Personally when the novel "Deadly Fortune" first revealed this info, I too was in denial like a lot of you. I don't like the idea of Vergil's spawn being so....not Vergil-ish. Although I enjoyed playing as him, Nero's characterization could've been better. No offense to anyone who likes him.

Also, the novels aren't set in stone. There were other DMC novels before that are no longer considered canon (like the one with "Gilver", I loved that one! XD) ...most likely that'll be what happens to Deadly Fortune as well.

The two main issues with this are Vergil's age and Nero's mother. Everyone seems to take issue with his mother possibly being a prostitute.

However from the novel summaries @ Devil's Lair it's stated that was simply Sanctus's ASSUMPTION. He didn't know one way or the other who his mother was. (Any possibility we can get some summaries that are actually serious and not filled with translator's personal opinion? That'd be great.)

The other issue is Vergil's age, he'd would've still been a child during Nero's conception. Unlikely Capcom would do something so controversial. But here is what I chalk it up to: The creators don't remember their own timeline.

Yes I am aware the someone said "it's 10 years after DMC1" ...or was it DMC3? I don't even remember what was said. Thing is, I have NEVER seen anyone post a link to the interview where this is even stated. For all we know, he randomly pulled "oh it was a decade after this game" out of thin air without even thinking, maybe he simply made a mistake. For all we know, it was simply misquoted.

I mean, look at the age difference between Dante and Nero. Dante DOES (imo) look like he'd be old enough to have fathered a late teens/early twenties son. Just my opinion, but Dante looks to be pushing 40 in DMC4. Maybe it's just the scruff, it's not easy deciphering the age of a video game character. XD

Anyway tl;dr. Yes, I think Vergil is Nero's father...although I don't like it any more than you do. Capcom tried to keep Nero's origins mysterious and ambiguous but ended up confusing the hell out of the fanbase. They can't even seem to agree on Nero's origins.

Other theories:
When I was still in heavy denial about it I thought maybe Nero was simply a vessel for Vergil's spirit. (Not a reincarnation, just hiding a piece of his soul...kind of like some Harry Potter horcrux nonsense. XD) Or even a creation of Mundus much like Trish. Who knows at this point. I hope they use Nero as a plot device for Vergil's return, at least. Assuming there is a DMC5. *prays* lol

 

[Meg]

I see a lot of people using Dante's "it's got to stay in the family" line as evidence that Nero is Vergil's kid. But here's the thing, Dante says that when trying to get Nero to give the sword to him. Dante used the sword needing to "stay in the family" as a reason for why Nero needs to give Dante the sword. What Dante basically said, is that the sword needs to stay with him, as the last living member of his family. Subtext.

At the end of the game, when Dante lets Nero keep the sword, he never once says anything that can be interpreted as Nero being family. Dante says the "it's got to stay in the family" line in a completely different scene and context. His decision to let Nero keep Yamato has nothing to do with Nero being family. Dante let's Nero keep the sword because he knows he can trust Nero with it.

Just saying.

 

[Angel]

Hey now, how opinions are presented aside, forums are all about discussion. You can love something and still make long posts pointing out its flaws. The point is to discuss those opinions. People who like the game shouldn't be annoyed by negative opinions. Heck, DMC is my favorite series, but I know it has flaws and I don't mind discussing them. :smile:

Also, both of you, please watch your word choice. Threads have been locked over arguments like this. So please be mindful of that. I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but I'd hate for another thread to get locked.

QFT

Because I never get to say QFT.

Also because I had to look it up first to make sure I was using the right letter combination.

Also have not had my coffee yet.

Carry on people.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

Hang on a second. I'm really confused. People are saying that it has now been confirmed that Nero is Vergil's son. I mean is this an actual fact? Because if so then there isn't much point in saying otherwise about it. That's why I'm trying to make sense of how you can still debate this if it's been officially clarified. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Vergil'sBitch]

Hang on a second. I'm really confused. People are saying that it has now been confirmed that Nero is Vergil's son. I mean is this an actual fact? Because if so then there isn't much point in saying otherwise about it. That's why I'm trying to make sense of how you can still debate this if it's been officially clarified. Please correct me if I am wrong.

To me, it's not been clarified. They can stick it in as many books as they want. Until it's mentioned in a game... I shall keep making this face ----> :shifty: whenever I see anything about it (actually, if it was confirmed in game, I'd still make that face )

I still think it would've been better if Nero was an 'experiment' by The Order of Sparda (seeing they were into that sort of stuff).

When Dante said, "It's gotta stay in the family" I thought he was referring to himself (i.e. it was my brother's, now it's mine), but I've just read that part of the script and... pfft...:dead:

 

[Enigma]

''I guess everyone's still in denial about it, huh? Despite the evidence in DMC4 ("It's gotta stay in the family"- Dante) and the art book AND the novel which apparently confirms it.''

That only implies that Nero is part of the Sparda bloodline. Sanctus said ''I must salute a man who carries the blood of Sparda'' and Nero gets called a ''descendant of Sparda's blood''. This all sounds pretty cryptic to me - it sounds like Nero could be created from the blood of Sparda, like a clone or something. Or he might have been created from Dante and Vergil in some way.

And what do you mean by the art book? I saw most, if not all of the art, and I can't remember anything that implies Nero is Vergil's son. Some of his concept art did look a bit more gothic and serious than what we ended up with in DMC4, though.

As for the novel, well... most of the novels are not canon, I think. Until a new game in fact says that he's Vergil's son, I won't take the novel seriously.

''Yes I am aware the someone said "it's 10 years after DMC1" ...or was it DMC3? Thing is, for all we know, he randomly pulled "oh it was a decade after this game" out of thin air without even thinking, maybe he simply made a mistake. Dante DOES look like he'd be old enough to have fathered a late teens/early twenties son. Just my opinion, but Dante looks to be pushing 40 in DMC4. Maybe it's just the scruff, it's not easy deciphering the age of a video game character. XD''

Ten years after DMC3. In DMC3, Dante is 19, so he must be about thirty in DMC4. If Kobayashi or whoever it was said that he's ''around ten years older'', then I believe him. If Dante were around forty, he would've said ''around twenty years older than in DMC3''... and there's a big difference between ten and twenty. Even if he himself doesn't know how old Dante is, he would not make such a huge mistake. And to me, Dante does look like he's thirty. If you still find it hard to believe, I'd suggest looking at Lady. She was also about 19 in DMC3, and she looks like she's thirty in DMC4. If she were forty, I'd expect her to be less... perky. :laugh:
I can understand that the theory of him being Vergil's son is appealing, but it sounds wrong to me. First off, Vergil would not want a child that is more human than demonic, since he craves power and would want his kid to have the same amount of power. Second, having intercourse with a prostitute (without protection?) doesn't sound like Vergil to me. Sounds stupid for him, and a hooker would not just keep the kid. And if he wanted a child, he would do it the normal way with the right person.

Still, I think I heard that Vergil visited Fortuna once, so maybe he had already planned having a kid. Maybe he didn't like humans enough, and couldn't find a suitable demon. So... maybe they did some kind of experiment with his DNA. Something like that sounds more plausible than the story that Nero was ''left on the doorstep of the Fortuna orphanage''. Even if he were, I don't doubt more is going on.

Also, the idea that Nero is a third son of Sparda sounds crazy to me. Why? Because it would invalidate everything that happened in DMC3. Why two halves of the amulet? If Nero existed, why not three? Why doesn't Nero have anything related to Sparda in his possession? DMC4 constantly implicitly says Nero is some kind of reincarnation of Sparda. He's got the Red Queen and the Blue Rose, and his outfit is red and navy blue. Berial says he's ''just like he was'', referring to Sparda. In one cutscene, he gets a purple aura when he takes the Yamato. No, his DT doesn't look anything like Nelo Angelo... NA didn't have a halo attached to his shoulders or a sheath for Yamato, and wasn't light blue. Blue is more Vergil's color - I wouldn't be surprised if Vergil's soul is contained within the Yamato and set free by Nero's DT.

 

[Enigma]

''He (Nero) was pointless in every sense of the word. He didn't even look that different from Dante. Like, seriously? They couldn't even visually make him his own character.''

The whole point is that Nero is related to Sparda in some way. It's not like he looks exactly like DMC3 Dante. Family members look alike. Deal with it. Aside from that, his appearance is still different enough from Dante to make him an acceptably 'new' character. As for his demeanor, well, it's not very similar to Dante, I think. Nero's more sarcastic and acts like an ass, and sometimes lets his emotions out, while Dante just likes being funny and beats sh*t up, all the while being fairly phlegmatic about it.

''Vergil's entire generic character is set up around the whole idea of him despising his human side. He hates not completely being part of what he thinks is a superior lineage. I mean, just look back at all the sh!t he said in 3. I mean, he thinks that putting all emotions aside for the sake of power and sh!t is the way its supposed to be.''

I'm not sure if you're going to compare it to anything, but let me say in advance that new Vergil is no better. Going from hating his human side and probably wanting to rule as the next demon king, to wanting to protect humans and rule over them, well... that's not a big difference. Quite a small one, really. Maybe it's not so much about how generic he is, and maybe it's more about you hating him just because he's similar to anime characters. Nothing wrong with anime-like characters.

 

[Zero]

About the art book, I haven't seen it personally, nor can I read Japanese, so I can't say. I actually read it on these forums. It was mentioned in the other Nero origin theory thread (btw why are there two? I'm confused.) http://devilmaycry.org/threads/just...at-silly-nero-being-vergils-son-theory.16865/ You'd have to ask them. I don't think they'd have any reason to lie about it.

Ten years after DMC3. In DMC3, Dante is 19, so he must be about thirty in DMC4. If Kobayashi or whoever it was said that he's ''around ten years older'', then I believe him. If Dante were around forty, he would've said ''around twenty years older than in DMC3''... and there's a big difference between ten and twenty. Even if he himself doesn't know how old Dante is, he would not make such a huge mistake. And to me, Dante does look like he's thirty. If you still find it hard to believe, I'd suggest looking at Lady. She was also about 19 in DMC3, and she looks like she's thirty in DMC4. If she were forty, I'd expect her to be less... perky. :laugh:

I really, really wish someone could find that interview and post a link. I've looked for it myself but found nothing but dead ends. Frustrating because I've actually tried to build a timeline for DMC in the past but couldn't find ANY sources. (Besides in-game ones obviously.)
True, I had forgotten to consider Lady's age into the equation. But there is a very simple explanation for her perkiness. Implants! XD

I see a lot of people using Dante's "it's got to stay in the family" line as evidence that Nero is Vergil's kid. But here's the thing, Dante says that when trying to get Nero to give the sword to him. Dante used the sword needing to "stay in the family" as a reason for why Nero needs to give Dante the sword. What Dante basically said, is that the sword needs to stay with him, as the last living member of his family. Subtext.
At the end of the game, when Dante lets Nero keep the sword, he never once says anything that can be interpreted as Nero being family. Dante says the "it's got to stay in the family" line in a completely different scene and context. His decision to let Nero keep Yamato has nothing to do with Nero being family. Dante let's Nero keep the sword because he knows he can trust Nero with it.
Just saying.

Sadly, that one quote is not the only evidence presented in the game.

1. He says "It's gotta stay in the family" and ultimately ends up allowing Nero to keep the sword, indicating he at least suspects he is blood related. I'm looking at the bigger picture, not just the subtext of that one scene.
If he didn't think he was family, you really think he'd allow him to keep his brother's sword in the end? >.> I'm not so sure.

2. Nero is able to "heal" the broken Yamato. Would Dante have been able to do the same thing? Maybe. Who knows? But the fact is Yamato chose to react to Nero, and no one else, for some reason or another.

3. "GIMME MOAR POWA" Need I say more? XD It's almost a direct quote from Vergil. Sure I guess it *could* mean anything. But this is DMC we're talking about, not exactly known for it's deep storytelling.

4. Nelo/Nero mistranslation issues. Despite what was said in Deadly Fortune, I highly doubt his name being "Nero" has much to do with some emperor. =/ It's just toooooo much of a coincidence.

All these things put together, don't you think the theory holds at least a little bit of weight? All circumstantial evidence? Perhaps. But I'm pretty sure if he was on trail he'd be found guilty. Sucks too, they pulled the same crap with Wesker, come to think of it.

Sometimes I think the only way to convince people is to pull a RE6 by making it extremely obvious and just call him Vergil Jr. XD Lol.

But like I said, this is just my opinion, and I still don't really LIKE the idea of him being Vergil's son.
I'm not trying to change your minds or anything. Capcom seems to think it's all right there on the surface. Maybe it IS all right there on the surface, but because Nero's not really a popular character, we don't want to see it.

 

[Enigma]

True, I had forgotten to consider Lady's age into the equation. But there is a very simple explanation for her perkiness. Implants! XD

1. He says "It's gotta stay in the family" and ultimately ends up allowing Nero to keep the sword, indicating he at least suspects he is blood related. I'm looking at the bigger picture, not just the subtext of that one scene.
If he didn't think he was family, you really think he'd allow him to keep his brother's sword in the end? >.> I'm not so sure.

2. Nero is able to "heal" the broken Yamato. Would Dante have been able to do the same thing? Maybe. Who knows? But the fact is Yamato chose to react to Nero, and no one else, for some reason or another.

3. "GIMME MOAR POWA" Need I say more? XD It's almost a direct quote from Vergil. Sure I guess it *could* mean anything. But this is DMC we're talking about, not exactly known for it's deep storytelling.

4. Nelo/Nero mistranslation issues. Despite what was said in Deadly Fortune, I highly doubt his name being "Nero" has much to do with some emperor. =/ It's just toooooo much of a coincidence.

XD Yeah... well, I just don't know. There's an unlockable start screen for DMC4 that shows Lady's face without the glasses, and she honestly looks like she could pass for a twenty-year-old, even. Of course, she's not *that* young, I know.

1. True, he obviously knows Nero is family, but he tries to hide that from him by saying ''it's gotta stay in the family'', since Nero has no clue (because he's an idiot :laugh.

2. Probably. All we saw was Nero restoring it just as he got his Devil Trigger, so I think Dante could restore it too if he were in Devil Trigger form. But then, Nero did really need power, while Dante doesn't need it because he already has it. So maybe it would take longer to restore for Dante.

3. Yeah, it's clear that's Vergil. Part of his soul is probably contained within the Yamato, and called out to Nero when he was hurt, so that it could give him a Devil Trigger.

4. I'm not sure if Nero has anything to do with Nero Angelo. Some people have argued that Nero is a reincarnation of Nero Angelo, but that wouldn't really make sense, since reincarnation doesn't work that way. Nero Angelo would've been dead for one or two years in DMC4, which doesn't correspond to Nero's age. Besides, Nero Angelo is just a synonym for Vergil (albeit corrupted and wearing armor). There is some Nero Angelo stuff going on, though, such as the Bianco Angelos and other demons being made from fragments of him. And those parts of Nero Angelo are then used to critically hurt Nero with.

It's just such a tough question. I have no idea... I think he was just a badly thought out character. Because for each point in favor of an argument, there's another that spoils it or completely negates it. I think Nero was one of the biggest reasons why Capcom started over by developing DmC. Of course, they'll never admit that because it makes them look incompetent.

 

[Innsmouth]

His second fight with Dante is practically mirroring first Vergil/Dante in DMC3. Only with different results. Basically when Vergil stabs Dante, Dante backslaps Nero.

 

[Vergil'sBitch]

I was thinking about the whole power thing (and I'm probably going to open 'a can of worms'), but seeing that Devil Arms have the 'soul' of a defeated demon, why should swords like Yamato be any different?
Nero could've been 'channeling' Yamato's demon when he mentioned power (except somehow, Nero is repressing the need to get power).

Capcom said it was a 'coincidence' that (Johnny Young Bosch) Nero sounded a bit like Vergil (I don't know about anyone else, but that tells me, he wasn't initially Vergil's 'son').

Anyway, those are morning rantings... I haven't slept.

 

[Enigma]

I was thinking about the whole power thing (and I'm probably going to open 'a can of worms'), but seeing that Devil Arms have the 'soul' of a defeated demon, why should swords like Yamato be any different?
Nero could've been 'channeling' Yamato's demon when he mentioned power (except somehow, Nero is repressing the need to get power).

Capcom said it was a 'coincidence' that (Johnny Young Bosch) Nero sounded a bit like Vergil (I don't know about anyone else, but that tells me, he wasn't initially Vergil's 'son').

Anyway, those are morning rantings... I haven't slept.

Well, I'm not sure if you can call the Yamato or the Rebellion devil arms, since they don't appear to be made from demons. Devil arms like the Gilgamesh and most notably Agni & Rudra, are made from the souls of their respective demons, whereas the Yamato and Rebellion are just keepsakes given to the twins by Sparda.
But whenever Nero is using the Yamato, he does channel Vergil, yes. That is quite obviously the case, since he even says things only Vergil would say, like 'Jackpot'. I think he also says 'scum', another Vergil taunt.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's repressing the need for power, as that is a central theme of the DMC games. Humans don't want that much power, and if they do, they are essentially demons. Demons do not gain as much power as they could, simply because they are so greedy. Like DMC4 says, Nero has a heart that could love another person, and that is what most demons lack.

 

[DarkSlayerZero]

''He (Nero) was pointless in every sense of the word. He didn't even look that different from Dante. Like, seriously? They couldn't even visually make him his own character.''

The whole point is that Nero is related to Sparda in some way. It's not like he looks exactly like DMC3 Dante. Family members look alike. Deal with it. Aside from that, his appearance is still different enough from Dante to make him an acceptably 'new' character. As for his demeanor, well, it's not very similar to Dante, I think. Nero's more sarcastic and acts like an ass, and sometimes lets his emotions out, while Dante just likes being funny and beats sh*t up, all the while being fairly phlegmatic about it.

''Vergil's entire generic character is set up around the whole idea of him despising his human side. He hates not completely being part of what he thinks is a superior lineage. I mean, just look back at all the sh!t he said in 3. I mean, he thinks that putting all emotions aside for the sake of power and sh!t is the way its supposed to be.''

I'm not sure if you're going to compare it to anything, but let me say in advance that new Vergil is no better. Going from hating his human side and probably wanting to rule as the next demon king, to getting meningitis that magically erased all his memories at some point (LOL), and wanting to rule over humans, well... that's not a big difference. Quite a small one, really. Maybe it's not so much about how generic he is, and maybe it's more about you hating him just because he's similar to anime characters. Nothing wrong with anime-like characters.

I don't remember that happening to Vergil.

 

[Enigma]

I don't remember that happening to Vergil.

Oh right, that happened to Dante. Fixed. Yeah, didn't Vergil say he had an accident or something, which caused his loss of memory? Anyway, not really relevant.

 

[Innsmouth]

I remembered something....If i remember right Sanctus absorbed Nero because he needed Sparda's Blood, so basically it confirms at least that Nero is blood related to Sparda...