Nero's origins - What do you think?

[Viper]

@Lord Nero

Interesting theories, I'd just like to give my insight on some points you make...

It was said that Sanctus assumed Nero's mother was one of the prostitutes working just outside the city, since in the city it was a really tight community and there was no talk of a woman being pregnant at the time. That could be true, which could make an interesting biblical reference since Jesus saved the prostitute Mary Magdalene (oh fanfiction ideas, you just keep popping up), or there was someone in the city who was damn good at hiding such things.

Carrying someones blood means always that you are directly related to them, how far along the line you are doesn't matter.
Saying he carries Sparda's blood doesn't rule out Vergil as his parent, it simply connects him to the famous guy that separated the dimensions and saved mankind, inspiring more awe than a name of a barely known son of his. Vergil carries blood of Sparda as his son, therefore a grandson carries blood of Sparda as well.

Nero is not so much weaker from Dante as he is young and inexperienced. Dante has far more mileage in battle and more or less awe inspiring opponents. Before DMC4 events Nero only fought small fry and is quite hot headed, which affects his success in fighting Dante who thinks of his opponents moves.

All devils are fallen angels by judeo-christian definition, since they were angels that betrayed God and have been thrown into pits of Hell. Betraying king of Demon world doesn't make one anything but traitor to demons. Still, your point stands as Sparda, a full devil, would still be a fallen angel, while his sons come closest to definition of cambion (despite what some jerks say about it).

 

[LordOfDarkness]

@Lord Nero: Although it's frowned upon to bump old topics, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt this time.

All that I'm going to add here is to not make a habit of it as it is against forum rules. You were the last person to post in this topic before you bumped it which means a double post. But as I said, I am going to make an exception here because you have made some good points. So just bare what I have said in mind in the future. Thank you.

 

[Lord Nero]

@Lord Nero
It was said that Sanctus assumed Nero's mother was one of the prostitutes working just outside the city, since in the city it was a really tight community and there was no talk of a woman being pregnant at the time. That could be true, which could make an interesting biblical reference since Jesus saved the prostitute Mary Magdalene (oh fanfiction ideas, you just keep popping up), or there was someone in the city who was damn good at hiding such things.

Carrying someones blood means always that you are directly related to them, how far along the line you are doesn't matter.
Saying he carries Sparda's blood doesn't rule out Vergil as his parent, it simply connects him to the famous guy that separated the dimensions and saved mankind, inspiring more awe than a name of a barely known son of his. Vergil carries blood of Sparda as his son, therefore a grandson carries blood of Sparda as well.

Nero is not so much weaker from Dante as he is young and inexperienced. Dante has far more mileage in battle and more or less awe inspiring opponents. Before DMC4 events Nero only fought small fry and is quite hot headed, which affects his success in fighting Dante who thinks of his opponents moves.

All devils are fallen angels by judeo-christian definition, since they were angels that betrayed God and have been thrown into pits of Hell. Betraying king of Demon world doesn't make one anything but traitor to demons. Still, your point stands as Sparda, a full devil, would still be a fallen angel, while his sons come closest to definition of cambion (despite what some jerks say about it).

Interesting. Yeah, well it could in fact be that his mother was a prostitute. I mean, why not? DMC4 has some biblical themes, so this might actually be true.

Yeah, but the way Sanctus says it makes me a bit suspicious. Carries Sparda's blood, is a descendant of his blood, inherited his blood. The 'blood' part is pretty superfluous. But yeah, you're right. I'm just wondering if Sanctus meant it as literally as possible.

True, Nero could be as strong as Dante, even. I do think somebody said that Nero became as strong as Dante was at the end of 3... which would be quite the feat if he's only 1/4 demon.

Yeah, but DMC doesn't seem to treat demons the same as biblical text does. Some demons never wanted anything to do with Mundus's ideals, I think. There's a distinct difference between the demons who call themselves angels (and look like angels) and the demons who look like actual demons. It's almost like they're a different race.
Anyway, it's just a theme in the games that Sparda is a fallen angel or 'dark knight'. Nero Angelo is referred to as a fallen angel by DMC HD Collection's achievements, and it makes sense because he was created by Mundus in Sparda's image. And then Nero shows up with a broken halo attached to his shoulders, and it's just that it seems connected to Sparda or Nero Angelo (Vergil) or both.

It's an interesting debate

 

[Lord Nero]

Actually, I find it equally possible that Nero was simply created by somebody - maybe even Vergil, since he didn't want anything to do with humans, or even demons really. It's not a weird thought that Vergil wanted Sparda's legacy to go on, and if DMC5 says he indeed was in Fortuna, then he may have been there simply to find a way to create Nero. Maybe he rifled through some books and eventually found a scientist who agreed to create him.
It's probably better than Vergil just having sex with a random human at the age of 11, anyway.

 

[Viper]

Interesting. Yeah, well it could in fact be that his mother was a prostitute. I mean, why not? DMC4 has some biblical themes, so this might actually be true.

Yeah, but the way Sanctus says it makes me a bit suspicious. Carries Sparda's blood, is a descendant of his blood, inherited his blood. The 'blood' part is pretty superfluous. But yeah, you're right. I'm just wondering if Sanctus meant it as literally as possible.

True, Nero could be as strong as Dante, even. I do think somebody said that Nero became as strong as Dante was at the end of 3... which would be quite the feat if he's only 1/4 demon.

Yeah, but DMC doesn't seem to treat demons the same as biblical text does. Some demons never wanted anything to do with Mundus's ideals, I think. There's a distinct difference between the demons who call themselves angels (and look like angels) and the demons who look like actual demons. It's almost like they're a different race.
Anyway, it's just a theme in the games that Sparda is a fallen angel or 'dark knight'. Nero Angelo is referred to as a fallen angel by DMC HD Collection's achievements, and it makes sense because he was created by Mundus in Sparda's image. And then Nero shows up with a broken halo attached to his shoulders, and it's just that it seems connected to Sparda or Nero Angelo (Vergil) or both.

It's an interesting debate

You know, in the manga Arkham mentioned angels and demons were once one and the same, and the underground statue changes appearance from a cute angel to a devious devil, depending on who is looking at it.

Angels never actually appeared in the series, they were only mentioned in that underground scene and Credo firmly believed that he became an angel, until Nero pointed it out to him he is a demon. So there is a chance that there is a certain specie of demons that fit the role of angels, the brave knights, and Sparda is something like Lucifer only mirrored with his betrayal of demon king.

 

[Lord Nero]

You know, in the manga Arkham mentioned angels and demons were once one and the same, and the underground statue changes appearance from a cute angel to a devious devil, depending on who is looking at it.

Angels never actually appeared in the series, they were only mentioned in that underground scene and Credo firmly believed that he became an angel, until Nero pointed it out to him he is a demon. So there is a chance that there is a certain specie of demons that fit the role of angels, the brave knights, and Sparda is something like Lucifer only mirrored with his betrayal of demon king.

Yeah, in DMC3, Arkham calls D&V ''the devil's descendants''. Also, Mundus looks like an angel in his fight with Dante in DMC1, and he's got three eyes, probably in reference to the threes in the Bible. Angels don't really exist, they're just a type of demon. The meaning of Lucifer is lightbringer, so it's not a weird idea of the DMC games to portray him as the good guy. I think Lucifer was originally used to refer to Jesus, btw. So Sparda's both Jesus and the devil, lol.
Yeeeh. Anyway, all we can do is wait for what Capcom makes of Nero, if DMC5 ever comes.

 

[TonyRedgraveDMC]

I most prefer the "Nero is Vergil's son" theory as it is still the most practical theory out there (despite some iffy timetables)

However, I'm not against the idea of Nero being an "immaculate demonic conception" making him for all intents and purposes a "son of sparda" just not as 'wholesome' as those born of his seed. (As Jesus was 100% human but also 1/3 God, the Devil Bringer may be the concentration of Nero's devil blood coming to the surface of his human body.) It's very possible what with the Biblical parallels (with Sparda as their god-figure, and a son of Sparda being the key component of "The Savior") the color-scheme theme fits, and there are multiple other parallels between Nero and Sparda in the game.

Another very similar theory that I'm starting to scratch my head and wonder about is perhaps he was a descendant of Sparda's blood because God wanted him to be, he essentially modeled him after Sparda and/or his sons the same way he modeled man after hinself, due to Sparda's heroism and endearment for humans. It's not a sturdy theory, but I find it strange that instead of Nero picking Dante's brain about the 'descendant of Sparda's blood' thing, the closest thing Nero comes to accepting his origins is appreciating God for making him the way he is.

One another note: All of the Ascension Ceremonial devil forms have a strong resemblances to The Savior, as does Nero's DT to a degree. It's also even a bit noticeable that each one resembles Sparda or his sons in different ways. Agnus resembles Sparda's insectoid likeness, Credo resembles Vergil's honorable (and ruthless) swordsmanship (could have been an earlier trait of Sparda's) and Sanctus gains the third eye thing if I recall; maybe it was something else with Sanctus, but he also gained the Savior's pseudo-halo frame... The Savior was definitely in existence before those members of The Order, but in what way did it have relation to Sparda for its purpose in a Sparda-worshipping church-cult? Why did it need Sparda's blood, Yamato, etc

Also, I think Sanctus was very literal. He had discussed needing Dante or Nero as the CORE for the Savior, but I believe Sanctus had a line clearly indicating that he required Yamato PLUS his BLOOD to *control* the Savior 100% hence why Sanctus stabbed Nero in the arm with Yamato before beginning truly mobilizing.

 

[Lord Nero]

Another very similar theory that I'm starting to scratch my head and wonder about is perhaps he was a descendant of Sparda's blood because God wanted him to be, he essentially modeled him after Sparda and/or his sons the same way he modeled man after hinself, due to Sparda's heroism and endearment for humans. It's not a sturdy theory, but I find it strange that instead of Nero picking Dante's brain about the 'descendant of Sparda's blood' thing, the closest thing Nero comes to accepting his origins is appreciating God for making him the way he is.

One another note: All of the Ascension Ceremonial devil forms have a strong resemblances to The Savior, as does Nero's DT to a degree. It's also even a bit noticeable that each one resembles Sparda or his sons in different ways. Agnus resembles Sparda's insectoid likeness, Credo resembles Vergil's honorable (and ruthless) swordsmanship (could have been an earlier trait of Sparda's) and Sanctus gains the third eye thing if I recall; maybe it was something else with Sanctus, but he also gained the Savior's pseudo-halo frame... The Savior was definitely in existence before those members of The Order, but in what way did it have relation to Sparda for its purpose in a Sparda-worshipping church-cult? Why did it need Sparda's blood, Yamato, etc

Also, I think Sanctus was very literal. He had discussed needing Dante or Nero as the CORE for the Savior, but I believe Sanctus had a line clearly indicating that he required Yamato PLUS his BLOOD to *control* the Savior 100% hence why Sanctus stabbed Nero in the arm with Yamato before beginning truly mobilizing.

Well, there's not really any indication that there is a God in the DMC universe. At least not in the games. The only God known in DMC is Mundus, who has three eyes symbolizing the trinity, I suppose. His role is that of the devil, though.
But, who knows, if they believe in a god besides Mundus, I suppose Nero could just be a miracle. Still, doesn't explain why he's got the blood of Sparda, right?

Yeah, I guess they do. Agnus looks like a locust, Credo looks like an angel, which in the DMC universe is just another kind of demon. According to the Devil May Cry wikia, Agnus is even called the One-Eyed Dark Knight, while Credo is called the One-Winged Dark Knight. Are their demon forms derived from the fragments of Nero Angelo too, just like the Gladius and Bianco Angelo enemies? That would mean they've got parts of Nero Angelo in them.

The Savior was created to kill all demons, making it possible for the Order's demons to thrive (though the Order thought they had become angels).

 

[TonyRedgraveDMC]

Nero implies God might exist. (Though again, keep in mind, the closest thing to "God" in this series is Sparda, albeit symbolically to the Order of the Sword and because of his heroism and sympathies for human not to mention having human-born sons and becoming semi/pseudo-human)

I believe so, but also somehow incorporate The Savior. I have a small inkling that while The Savior requires a carrier of Sparda's blood for a core and said blood to turn Yamato into a controller for The Savior, it's possible The Savior provides some other connection to Sparda via its "millennia of demonic history, etc" (and nvm, Sanctus' 3rd eye resembles Mundus, not Sparda) so maybe The Savior was able to bequeath them demonic power with splices of Sparda's (and in Sanctus' case, Mundus') demonic likeness.