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Nero. Is he really Vergil's son?

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Dante's Stalker

"Outrun this!"
Premium
Supporter 2014
moseslmpg;262712 said:
Artificial insemination anyone? Seriously.

I haven't much to contribute to this thread, as my theories are easily debunked. BUT. I had to quote that!
Dude, you are taking this discussion to places my mind never would have gone. Good on ya! XD
I'm all for that theory!
Anything aside from the idea of Vergil getting jiggy with someone.
 

moseslmpg

Well-known Member
I think that is usually the problem when people discount ideas: lack of imagination.

I have more unorthodox ideas, but I'm keeping it simple since we are talking theories here and not story ideas.
 

King of Hell

Must Die
You want an explanation: Because 1. it is a game and they would never be able to admit he had sex 2. He has never expressed even the remotest interest in a being of the opposite sex 3. Due to his power fetish and distaste for weaker beings, he wouldn't have sex with a woman, especially not a human one 4. He seems to place the utmost importance on decorum and training and wouldnot waste his energy on such a frivolous and weakening activity as sex. I can go on with reasons and I'm sure you can come up with rationalizations for why I am wrong, so why don't you just give me reasons why it would be in character for him to have sex with a random human woman. That will be easier.

first, you just used the same reason & rephrased it a few times, all your reasons come back to Vergil wanting power, well, 3 & 4 anyway.
1-2: this isn't a porn game, they don't come out & say Vergil had sex, I thought you were better than to think that. anyway, how can he express any interest in sex when the only interactions he had was with Dante & Arkham? its like saying all the background characters in all the movies have no interest in sex because they never showed it, or more accurately, its like saying any character that had no interaction with women on screen means he has no interest in sex. the demons you fight in the game show no interaction with the opposite sex, yet they still reproduce. so far the only other reason you gave me other than "I want more power" is that he had no interaction with women.
ok, Albert Wesker never showed he had interest in women EVER, well, not until RE5 anyway, that doesn't make anyone think he was impotent, & Wesker's thirst for power is almost like Vergil. I'm not comparing, I just wanted to show you a little perspective. YES, it was weird thinking that Wesker had a relationship with another woman, because the game only shows us the necessary part for the plot, which was his thirst for power, there's no use in showing us Vergil looking under a girl's skirt (<<its a joke, you know what I mean).

ok before jumping to the second part, don't refer to non-canon references, I could refer to a novel that almost said it to the reader's face that Nero was Vergil's son, but the novels aren't canon. the only thing canon other than the game is the anime, which is more of a spinoff, it just shows you how Dante's everyday life is.

-Sanctus wanted Dante to use as the core, but he made Nero as a backup plan, from Vergil's DNA. Sanctus is a crafty guy, as it is implied he poisoned the last leader, in the novel.

or, the easiest solution would be to make Nero the core as soon as the cloning operation is done, or a few months later, there's no benefit in waiting 20 years, he could add Dante later to make them both act as a core. He could make the savior stand in Idle while Sparda's power gets stronger inside it. the whol cloning then throwing him on the streets then waiting 20 years to use him is absurd.

-Why would they make more than one clone? Didn't you see how Nero was enough of a problem on his own? The first rule of cloning soldiers with superpowers is never to clone an army of them, because they will overthrow you. Villainy 101, seriously.

its cloning, not looking into the future, they never knew how Nero would have worked, they could have just kept cloning, killing, & then modifying the genes until they get the perfect clone, making just one clone, no testing or anything, just one clone, then throw him out, & abandon Vergil's DNA & the whole project, this again, is absurd.

-Vergil's soul has nothing to do with this. That is already ridiculous enough, that they used his "soul." That's just dumb. The difference is that the Angelos are basically robots or drone, while Nero is an actual person with free angency.

dumb or not, its part of the plot, WHY would they abandon Vergil's DNA & then return to experiment 15+ years later on ONLY his soul, Vergil's DNA makes better use.
the theory contradicts itself in your first 3 points, its really obvious.

-They could have easily had his DNA since he went to Fortuna before, when Sanctus was there, as per the novel. You only need DNA to clone something.

ok, let's say they got his DNA, I'll give you that one, even though this is cloning, not identification.

-Who cloned him? I don't know how that is relevant. Someone cloned him about 17 years ago, before DMC3. We don't know who did it. That is not even remotely a flaw in the theory.

it is a flaw if its left unmentioned, they can't leave a giant plot hole like that.

The Ocelot theory doesn't work though, I think, because it doesn't explain how Nero got Sparda blood or why his hair is white.

yeah, the only problem with the theory is Nero's appearance, he looks like Dante/Vergil.
 

Dragon King

King Of Dragons
ok I was doing some thinking. The Nero being a son of Sparda would cause a major problem. Vergil and Dante are 2000 years old. Nero was raised from a baby along with Kyrie and Credo. So automatically Nero is not a brother due to his ACTUAL age being 19. And for him being Vergil's son, easily debunked. Considering the time frame between DMC 1 and DMC 4 it would be easily considered Nero was born sometime after DMC 1. Vergil "died" in DMC 3 and was resurrected by Mundus in DMC 1. So Vergil can't be Nero's dad...PERIOD!!! And Dante is too irresponsible and busy to raise a child, plus he wouldn't just ditch his son. So Dante isn't Nero's father either... PERIOD!!! You all can throw all 3 of those theories right out the window. So that leaves us with just a couple theories:

Nero accidentally received the power from his injury.

Nero is in fact a reincarnated Sparda (although I highly doubt it)

As a matter of fact, Nero may not even be related at all. But he is connected. When Nero tries to save Kyrie, His Holiness inteferes and as He leaves with Kyrie he says: "You have indeed inherited the power of Sparda". So we know he has Sparda's power, but it still doesn't mean he's related. In that scene we can determine that His Holiness knew of his "inheritance". So maybe there going to pull some Final Fantasy 7 bull**** and say Nero was an experiment to clone Sparda's Power. Just like Cloud was. So who knows, we should definitely find out in DMC 5.
 

V

Oldschool DMC fan
moseslmpg;262712 said:
And again, what is this deal with associating love and reproduction. Artificial insemination anyone? Seriously.

It's nice to see, actually, but yes... love doesn't have to come into it at all, and that's one reason the novel deliberately suggests a prostitute, I'm guessing. Not all orphans come from prostitutes, naturally, but it's a story that implies the child is totally unwanted and unplanned - which if your theory's correct would make a good cover story and have discouraged people bringing it up.
 

King of Hell

Must Die
mmmm, where did you get the idea that Dante & Vergil are 2000 years old? they were about 19 in DMC3, Dante was 29 in DMC1, & DMC4 takes place only a few years after the events of DMC1. while DMC2 is a lot further in the future.
so if DMC4 takes place between 16-20 years after DMC3, its still possible that Vergil impregnated someone before DMC3.
& inherited means they have blood relations, plus, the resemblance is striking, they must be related somehow. I'm not saying my theory is 100% correct, none of our theories are 100% FACT, but what we do know is that Nero has the blood of Sparda, & Nero's age is almost as much as the time gap between DMC3 & DMC4 (not 100% fact, DMC4 wasn't specific about the time gap), but its not more than 10 years after DMC1, Lady is still in her 30s.
 

TEHROFLKNIFE

Devil may care
Im really starting to like that vergil in Nero's arm theory. Remember what Nero said? "From that day forth, my arm changed. And a voice echoed, power, give me more power!" Sounds a lot like vergil dont ya think?
 

Dragon King

King Of Dragons
Well I was thinking Sparda fell in love with Eva 2000 years prior. Not thinking that it was towards the end of his life.
 

DreadnoughtDT

God of Hyperdeath
Premium
Supporter 2014
Actually, what you believe to be untrue is the established canon. Dante in DMC4 is in his late twenties. Vergil in DMC3 is 18, same as Dante.
 

moseslmpg

Well-known Member
King of Hell;262726 said:
first, you just used the same reason & rephrased it a few times, all your reasons come back to Vergil wanting power, well, 3 & 4 anyway.

That's because this is Vergil's goal in life. Pay attention to the games and manga.

1-2: this isn't a porn game, they don't come out & say Vergil had sex, I thought you were better than to think that. anyway, how can he express any interest in sex when the only interactions he had was with Dante & Arkham? its like saying all the background characters in all the movies have no interest in sex because they never showed it, or more accurately, its like saying any character that had no interaction with women on screen means he has no interest in sex. the demons you fight in the game show no interaction with the opposite sex, yet they still reproduce. so far the only other reason you gave me other than "I want more power" is that he had no interaction with women.

This is exactly my point. If they can't confirm in the game that Vergil had sex with a woman, there is no way it is going to be canonical unless they release a manga specifically for it. That along destroys any likelihood of this teory ever happening. But I will continue to humor you by listening to what else you have to say.

Now, Vergil has expressed no interest in anything else except gaining power, learning about Sparda, and his mother. He is not a carefree guy, his downtime is apparently spent brooding, not hitting up singles bars. Do you get where I'm going here? You are just projecting a realistic expectation onto a fictional character, which doesn't work. Even in real life, there are people who are asexual or are too invested in theor own endeavors to pursue sex. Those background characters in movies? They have no interest in anything, because they are not real characters, they just shuffle about and divert focus to the main character.

He has no interest in pursuing women or sex, from everything we have seen. Like I said, if you have evidence to the contrary, offer it. Tell me why I should think Vergil wants to have sex with human women, despite everything we know about him. You can discount every single one of my points, but it doesn't lend any help to your theory.


ok, Albert Wesker never showed he had interest in women EVER, well, not until RE5 anyway, that doesn't make anyone think he was impotent, & Wesker's thirst for power is almost like Vergil. I'm not comparing, I just wanted to show you a little perspective. YES, it was weird thinking that Wesker had a relationship with another woman, because the game only shows us the necessary part for the plot, which was his thirst for power, there's no use in showing us Vergil looking under a girl's skirt (<<its a joke, you know what I mean).

Does Wesker have a wife? GF? Children? Being impotent and not wasting time on sex are two different things. You're missing a key difference between RE and DMC. One of them depicts more realistic people than the other. Wesker is not the same as Vergil either. I'd go so far as to say that Vergil is probably incapable of having a relationship with someone.

ok before jumping to the second part, don't refer to non-canon references, I could refer to a novel that almost said it to the reader's face that Nero was Vergil's son, but the novels aren't canon. the only thing canon other than the game is the anime, which is more of a spinoff, it just shows you how Dante's everyday life is.

The novel is on the liminality between canon and non-canon. It is like a secondary referene. And btw, not even the novel says Nero is Vergil's son. It says that Nero is rumored to be the son of a prostitute and maybe Vergil, but no one really knows.

or, the easiest solution would be to make Nero the core as soon as the cloning operation is done, or a few months later, there's no benefit in waiting 20 years, he could add Dante later to make them both act as a core. He could make the savior stand in Idle while Sparda's power gets stronger inside it. the whol cloning then throwing him on the streets then waiting 20 years to use him is absurd.

Uh, I think using a baby as the core would have resulted in a very weak Savior statue. They probably had to wait until his demonic powers manifested at least. But that is beside the point, since Sanctus only had Nero as a plan B in case he couldn't get Dante.

This really has nothing to do with anything. I didn't make the stupid plan, Sanctus did.


its cloning, not looking into the future, they never knew how Nero would have worked, they could have just kept cloning, killing, & then modifying the genes until they get the perfect clone, making just one clone, no testing or anything, just one clone, then throw him out, & abandon Vergil's DNA & the whole project, this again, is absurd.

How do you know they didn't know? You are assuming things about technology that you don't understand and that aren't necessarily true. And they didn't throw him out, it isn't like he could go anywhere. It is an island nation totally ruled by a cult. Nero would always be close by.

So far, I'm not seeing any absurdity, just your lack of understanding and imagination displaying itself.


dumb or not, its part of the plot, WHY would they abandon Vergil's DNA & then return to experiment 15+ years later on ONLY his soul, Vergil's DNA makes better use.
the theory contradicts itself in your first 3 points, its really obvious.

What are you talking about? Who said they abandoned his DNA? This is the stupidest objection you have ever brought up.

1. They already have Nero, they have no reason to use Vergil's DNA anymore.
2. They could only get Vergil's soul after he "died" in DMC1. That's why they waited, durh.
3. Since when has DNA been more useful than a soul? Since when is that even a valid question to ask? We already know that with Vergil's soul they were able to create an army of drone soldiers. With his DNA, they could make crappy copies of him, that had free will and that could rebel. Soul is more useful.

My theory nowhere contradicts itself, you just can't seem to understand it and can't swallow the idea that Vergil doesn't have the burning urge to spread his demon seed across the world.


ok, let's say they got his DNA, I'll give you that one, even though this is cloning, not identification.

You need DNA to clone things...Do you know what DNA is? You can potentially clone someone from a strand of hair.

it is a flaw if its left unmentioned, they can't leave a giant plot hole like that.

I wish I had an eyeroll smiley to use on you...This is not a flaw in the theory, this is an irrelevant detail. It doesn't matter who actually did the procedure, where he got his doctorate, his wife's mother's name or anything like that. It could have been robots as far as anyone is concerned. Other people exist in the DMC universe, and everyone in the Order had their predecessors, starting from the time Sparda went there. Even Sanctus had his predecessor.

And in case you haven't noticed, DMC4 is a giant plot hole. Don't blame me, blame Crapcom.

Seriously, you're still arguing and you still have not a shred of evidence why the son theory should be believed. Like I said, even if I'm wrong, it doesn't make you any more right. So maybe you should actually build a case for your theory than trying to knock the other' one's down. And if you do decide to knock the other one's down, try to understand them before you do, or else you won't do any damage.

Edit: Is it confirmed that Dante is in his late twenties in DMC4? That means it has to be 1 year after DMC1, which was 10 years after DMC3, so Dante would be 29.
 

Legendary Darkslayer

The Roguedemonhunter
I had never heard this "Vergil clone" theory before. And after reading about it I must admit, it is the most plausible theory out there. Though it is flawed, I still like the idea of Nero being Sparda reincarnated better.
 

moseslmpg

Well-known Member
The problem with the theories is that none of them can explain both the DB and Nero's origin, without recourse to a bunch of unseen characters. I have put them together in my mind, but it requires a whole subplot never seen in the games.

Originally, I thought Nero might have goe into a Hellgate on a mission or something, and he found the Yamato, which cut his arm or something. But apparently, being scratched by an Assault gives you the Godhand :rolleyes:
 

Legendary Darkslayer

The Roguedemonhunter
Well, it is a bit odd that getting scratched by some random demon gives you an all powerful uberhand. You'd think it would be happening all the time. Still, this explanation still works for all the proposed theories, despite being abit questionable. Though a flawed explanation, it gives a reason as to how he got his arm. I don't advocate that theory though, I find it ridiculous.
 

King of Hell

Must Die
moseslmpg;262940 said:
Seriously, you're still arguing and you still have not a shred of evidence why the son theory should be believed. Like I said, even if I'm wrong, it doesn't make you any more right. So maybe you should actually build a case for your theory than trying to knock the other' one's down. And if you do decide to knock the other one's down, try to understand them before you do, or else you won't do any damage.

Edit: Is it confirmed that Dante is in his late twenties in DMC4? That means it has to be 1 year after DMC1, which was 10 years after DMC3, so Dante would be 29.

I think I'm gonna stop, the argument is getting a little hostile.

you believe your theory & I'll believe mine, nothing would change that.


Well, it is a bit odd that getting scratched by some random demon gives you an all powerful uberhand. You'd think it would be happening all the time. Still, this explanation still works for all the proposed theories, despite being abit questionable. Though a flawed explanation, it gives a reason as to how he got his arm. I don't advocate that theory though, I find it ridiculous.

the scratch probably awakened him, didn't really give him power, he had the power, but needed something to awaken him. just like Rebellion awakened Dante in DMC3.
 

moseslmpg

Well-known Member
If by "hostile," you mean me calling you to back your argument up rather than blindly throwing objections that you don't even understand, then yeah, I am requesting a little rigor on your part.

All you have done is nitpick at the clone theory (with invalid objections, I might add) without a shred of evidence to back yours up. If you can't defend your theory logically, then it probably isn't something you or anyone should be believing in, and it is definitely not something you should be arguing for.
 

Kittn

Dante's Lapcat
moseslmpg;262940 said:
Edit: Is it confirmed that Dante is in his late twenties in DMC4? That means it has to be 1 year after DMC1, which was 10 years after DMC3, so Dante would be 29.

Without derailing too much: His age remains officially unconfirmed in 4.

But there was a post about this months and months ago at unity, and one fella went and did the math and decided Dante had to be at least 36 in DMC 4 when you take the anime and the games and all into account. Agree or disagree with it as you will, though. There's no official answer.

Personally, I like the mid 30s idea better than early 20s one.
 
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