Nero. Is he really Vergil's son?

[Vampi]

Yea but this is a stupid mystery that messes up the whole timeline including Vergil's character. Mysteries are suppose to be sumthing to look forward to without messing up the whole foundation of the history, not sumthing to just get over with and put out of its misery like Nero's true parentage.

And i really do hope in the long run Lady does get wrinkles. There's nothing wrong with an older woman. I'm just tired of woman looking like their in there 20's or sumthing. It was refreshing to see a female character like The Boss from MGS 3, her being an older woman whose strong and badass and doesn't rely on her sexuality. Those kind of female characters are extremely rare.

 

[V]

^ Agreed. I was disappointed what they did to Lady in 4. She was my favourite of the female characters in DMC, not least because she wasn't the way they presented her in 4 when she was introduced as a strong, self-reliant character with no fixation on material gain or an allergy to buttons. There's also nothing wrong with not being in your 20s or less, though I suppose that is the game's target audience. Even Dante was shoved off the plinth and we know he's getting on. Age is just not cool, I guess.

 

[Vampi]

I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with looking in their 20's or less. Its just so typical nowadays. I want DMC to be unique. Lady used to have a scar on the bridge of her nose, its not there anymore. And i hate how they Whored her out in DMC 4. The only one's who should stay young are Trish and Lucia (if she ever returns i hope). Dante will eventually age, albeit very slow, but he will age. But he looks great in DMC 2 whatever age he is in that game (he's my fave looking of all the Dante's). But its just not fair that guys can get older while woman have to remain young forever.

 

[V]

It's just a widespread social pejudice, I suppose. I've heard this idea that good-looking men (or any men) "only look better as they age" whereas women just "lose it". I don't think that's true, but it's what a lot of people seem to think. It might be because biologically women aren't fertile for their whole potential lifespan and that what people tend to find conventionally physically attractive about women are often indicators of fertility, so perhaps age in women is an indicator that they are not fertile = undesirable. I don't know. Men don't seem to suffer the same protractedness of prejudice over their physical appearance, and they stay fertile their whole lives, or at least potentially capable of reproduction. So people see them as continuing to be desirable longer?

Ugh, now is not the time for a biology lesson, Alex.

There's also the die-hard idea that a woman's assets are in her appearance and fertility, and a man's assets are in his status and ability, so what men look like seems to matter less to people than what women look like. I don't personally endorse any of these ideas, but they do seem to still influence people on some level, even now.

 

[GamblingGambitCloud]

well.....personally i think that lady had a great role and that they weren't prejudicing any group with her appearance

 

[Vampi]

Really? You must be a guy then. Cause Lady in DMC 4 was just a glorified extra. She didn't contribute anything important besides telling Dante about the Order of the Sword. And her character was sluttified for the male fanservice. So she got breast implants and starting donning a very skimpy costume. Oh and all she cares about money and uses Dante to obtain it leaving him broke. Oh yeah...she didn't offend anyone...*rolls eyes*

 

[GamblingGambitCloud]

first off...this is a thread about nero being vergil's son...i'd be happy to debate this with u in a visitor message of PM..

second of all...i honestly think ur reading too much into the character as every game is going to offend someone in one way or another

thirdly....if you aren't happy with the way Capcom makes their characters, i honestly believe u shouldn't play the games, let alone join the forums of the game

lastly.......In DMC 3, Lady was young. Late teens tops. And seeing as most of ur argument is based on the fact that capcom cares nothing about the maturing of women, keep this in mind. Lady still has growing to do, both physically and mentally. And in Dmc 4, they capture the physcial growth in obvoius ways. Mentally, idk how they'd do it considering her father was a power hungry demon summoner who killed her mother and now she has grown up killing demons. But keep this in mind, sinc DMC seems to be set in a modern world. In modern society, young women (and men for that matter, it's not something that lays on one sex) who grow up in it more often than not care about the money to be made and not the people hurt in doing so. It's a harsh truth and as much as i'd hate to admit it, it's wat our world has come to.

 

[Vampi]

Uh...

1. You joined in the conversation as well. So you didn't see a problem in talking about Lady and not about the topic of this thread. So don't make it seem like i was the only one that ignore the thread topic.

2. You're generalizing that i dislike all the characters. Which i don't. I never said i hated Lady. I said i don't like her in DMC 4 cause they cheapen her personality and her look.

3. Oh so you're saying she still has a lot of growing up to do....for a 30 yr old woman? Right...Oh and that also if you don't have the gratuitous big boobs and skimpy costume well that's just a way of saying "Hey guys i'm growing up now". Hell no!

4.So you're just giving her an excuse to be a golddigger to Dante and Trish. Sumone who she considers friends? Wow who needs enemies when you have Lady.

Its just a great injustice to her character that they brought her up this way. But there's alot of things wrong with DMC 4 and Lady's appearance and demeanor is just one of them.

 

[Subject 64432B]

Cool down,we all know that Nero can´t be Vergil´s son(age difference is not right)

 

[V]

Is it just me or are some sections of Nero's theme music almost the same as those for some of Vergil's cutscenes in DMC3, that only get played when Vergil is onscreen? They're not identical but they are very similar melodies, close in pitch, and in strings. It sort of strikes me as another subliminal cue that Nero's supposed to be Vergil/Vergil's son rather than Sparda or someone else.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

Is it just me or are some sections of Nero's theme music almost the same as those for some of Vergil's cutscenes in DMC3, that only get played when Vergil is onscreen? They're not identical but they are very similar melodies, close in pitch, and in strings. It sort of strikes me as another subliminal cue that Nero's supposed to be Vergil/Vergil's son rather than Sparda or someone else.

You gotta remember that in DMC1, Sparda got his own battle themes that were techno/cathedral mixes.

My point being that it could be a hint, or it could be nothing. We don't know yet.

 

[moseslmpg]

Is it just me or are some sections of Nero's theme music almost the same as those for some of Vergil's cutscenes in DMC3, that only get played when Vergil is onscreen? They're not identical but they are very similar melodies, close in pitch, and in strings. It sort of strikes me as another subliminal cue that Nero's supposed to be Vergil/Vergil's son rather than Sparda or someone else.

When Nero awakens, bits of Ultra Violet do seem to be playing in the background. Something Devil Sunday-ish for sure. To me all that says is the ghost is Vergil.

thirdly....if you aren't happy with the way Capcom makes their characters, i honestly believe u shouldn't play the games, let alone join the forums of the game

Are you being serious right now? If we don't like absolutely everything Capcom does in a game we have no right to be fans? Is this 1984: The Game? Producers of fiction are not meant to function like mind tyrants that you have to agree with or be destroyed for not doing so.

Anyway, they're right, Lady's character was cheapened. In DMC3 she actually seemed to be defying some of these prejudices and setting herself up as a unique character.

Cool down,we all know that Nero can´t be Vergil´s son(age difference is not right)

Well, since Nero was conceived before DMC3, there is no timeline issue. Regardless of where Nero comes from, he had to be born before DMC3 if he is 17-19 in DMC4.

 

[V]

I checked/compared and although they're not identical tunes they're using really similar chords, strings, tempo and a similar melody for Nero's scene as they were in Arkham/Vergil atop Temen-Ni-Gru, Arkham/Vergil on the moonlit mile, and Vergil meeting Dante in mission 13 of DMC3. These notes play when Vergil's around in DMC3 but not any other time, and only with Nero I think.

Could mean nothing, but when designers put stuff into games they're aware of them. Making tunes so similar for Vergil and Nero couldn't be an accident, although it may just be indicating the sword, too (but plays when Agnus starts going on about his arm)

 

[Kittn]

Cool down,we all know that Nero can´t be Vergil´s son(age difference is not right)

Hey hey, speak for yourself there.

There's actually quite a number of folks who believe differently. Myself included. Maybe its easier for me to believe he is his son because it wouldn't bother me or do any damage to Vergil or Nero's person/story in my eyes.

And maybe I'm alone but I don't mind the mystery, either. Makes for good discussion - well, until people get all hateful about it. So, seeing heated arguments where people get personally offended over this? Wow.

The only truth is that nobody knows for sure.

But fans can convince themselves of anything. (Not excluding myself here, either, mind.) I'm sure the companies make every effort to cash in on this fact.

On the aged Lady stuff again: being mature or older doesn't mean you have to have wrinkles is what I was trying to say. It is not the defining characteristic of an older character in my eyes. So yeah. Lady still passes as 30s to me, and could easily pass for even older, if she stopped trying to outstage Trish with the Club-tramp wardrobe. It works well for Trish. On Lady it just looks out of place and desperate to me.

 

[moseslmpg]

And maybe I'm alone but I don't mind the mystery, either. Makes for good discussion - well, until people get all hateful about it. So, seeing heated arguments where people get personally offended over this? Wow.

I'm all for mystery myself, but Nero's origin doesn't count as a mystery, it is just a plot hole, plain and simple. Sparda is a mystery. What color underwear Vergil prefers is a mystery. Nero's origin is just bad storytelling. It is less like a well written whodunit crime drama and more like a book that has the last few pages ripped out.

The only truth is that nobody knows for sure.

I don't see why this truth is relevant at all though. As far as I can tell, it is a moot point. We can't simply drop all discussion because the fact of the matter is unavailable to us; we have to get as close to "nobody knows" as possible before we give up. It can't be used as a point of arbitration either, since it is more true in the real world than in fictional worlds. And just because the goal is unattainable doesn't mean we can't make progress.

This is my philosophy anyway, and this is the reason why I argue points that seem to be ultimately pointless. Alas.

 

[Kittn]

I'm all for mystery myself, but Nero's origin doesn't count as a mystery, it is just a plot hole, plain and simple. Sparda is a mystery. What color underwear Vergil prefers is a mystery. Nero's origin is just bad storytelling. It is less like a well written whodunit crime drama and more like a book that has the last few pages ripped out.

People don't generally spend 7 pages of a forum arguing the essence of a plot hole in a game that was released 2 years ago. Like it or not, Capcom has us all wondering enough to keep talking about it. I'll bet the authors of any well written whodunit would be flattered as heck if the same could be said for their works.

I don't see why this truth is relevant at all though. As far as I can tell, it is a moot point. We can't simply drop all discussion because the fact of the matter is unavailable to us; we have to get as close to "nobody knows" as possible before we give up. It can't be used as a point of arbitration either, since it is more true in the real world than in fictional worlds. And just because the goal is unattainable doesn't mean we can't make progress.

This is my philosophy anyway, and this is the reason why I argue points that seem to be ultimately pointless. Alas.

Like I said before in the post you quoted. It makes for good discussion. I didn't say it should be dropped. :/ I believe you missed the point of that part entirely.

 

[V]

Well, this is why I'm here... to discuss stuff till my brain bleeds.

I'm going to make a little bet with myself now that by the time the next major DMC game comes out, they will have decided Nero is Vergil's son, because it's just easier for CAPCOM to explain him away that way after the novels, and if they're paying any attention at all they'll have noticed all the clamour the uncertainty is causing with the fans. So if I'm wrong you all get to pelt me with... durians, or something.

 

[King of Hell]

I think DMC4 was the only game in the series to drag the story arc to the next game, that could either be a good or a bad thing. this whole Nero/Vergil thing has built mixed reaction between fans, & a huge buildup for a powerful DMC5. it could be bad if they can't meet our expectations.
MGS series did this, in MGS3 they let us control Big Boss, fans were split in two, Big Boss fans & Snake fans. & after the long wait, MGS4 had the best feedback in the series, & made a spot in the Guinness world record.

now if capcom can play their cards right, they can make an epic DMC5, of course if they split the fans in 2, they can have spinoffs for Nero & the main game series for Dante. I'm a Dante>Nero fan, but if the series gets more fans, we get higher quality games.

 

[Devil Bane]

^It's true that Capcom has been tiptoeing on MGS' footsteps...Hope we can have Vergil and a Nero "miniseries/spin-offs" and see all of Dante's story.

Spoiler

Here's hoping for it.And on the PSP!We need more good PSP love Capcom,not crappy MonHun PSP love!

 

[moseslmpg]

People don't generally spend 7 pages of a forum arguing the essence of a plot hole in a game that was released 2 years ago. Like it or not, Capcom has us all wondering enough to keep talking about it. I'll bet the authors of any well written whodunit would be flattered as heck if the same could be said for their works.

I do actually...I have since I first became a forum user. I don't quit an argument until it is over. I don't think Capcom has the right to be flattered, because like I said, there was no finesse or conscious attempt to create a mystery, just a very incoherent and opaque story.

Like I said before in the post you quoted. It makes for good discussion. I didn't say it should be dropped. :/ I believe you missed the point of that part entirely.

I did misinterpret you. I thought you meant discussion like just people offering their opinions unchallenged and not actually engaging in critical discussion that aims are uncovering things. That is, I thought your implication was that there was no actual point that we could move toward in discussion.

but if the series gets more fans, we get higher quality games.

I don't think that's true at all. When things go mainstream they tend to get worse. The more fans that there are, the more that Capcom has to appeal to the lowest common denominator. The more fans, the more casual it is.