Nero. Is he really Vergil's son?

[moseslmpg]

DMC is a game. None of it ever happened. The continuity doesn't actually benefit from DMC4 anyway, it doesn't really add anything to the series.

The psychodrama explanation is metacanonical. It would work regardless of what Capcom said. It does make lots of sense though.

Edit: This place is really active. I'm not used to getting replies within minutes of posting. Exciting.

 

[King of Hell]

most theories have plot holes:

the reincarnation theory:
ok, let's say Sparda is reincarnated, let's just say he is so lucky that he got into his bloodline somehow, now who's Nero's father? Nero has the blood of Sparda, he inherited his power, reincarnation doesn't give you your past bloodline.

clone theory:
if the order can make someone with Sparda's power & Sparda's bloodline, in a few years they could make an army of Neros, this army can rule our world & the demon world, it would take incredible amount of power to make such a strong person, Trish was created by the PRINCE OF DARKNESS, arguable the strongest ruler in the underworld existence, & he couldn't even get close to Sparda's bloodline. the closest thing he got was corrupting Vergil.

Sparda's son:
Sparda is a very loyal & loving demon, he would never betray his wife, leave his children behind (especially after their mother's death), & go sleep with another woman.

Vergil's son:
Vergil hates human emotions, he probably only loved his mother & Dante (true they were enemies, but nobody can argue that they still carry brotherly love), this theory's plot hole is the easiest to be closed, simply Vergil slept with a woman he met once & left her behind, he doesn't want a serious relationship or anything.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

But WHY would he just go sleep with someone and say "eh, f*ck it, I never wanna see this b*tch again cuz I got what I wanted." and then just leave?

He wouldn't. It isn't like him. It is something he would not EVER do. It's just too out of character.

There is a plothole you cannot fill.

 

[moseslmpg]

It doesn't take more power to clone a Gorilla than it does to clone a human. And Nero doesn't have Sparda's power. That's not really a hole in the theory. As for why they wouldn't create and army of Neros, well you saw how lazy and snarky he is. Would you want an army of punk slackers that don't believe in your cult? I wouldn't.

The Vergil son theory is unlikely, as Capcom will basically have to make it explicit that Vergil had a one night stand before DMC3, and I can't think of a way they would do that in a game. It doesn't really explain why his mom abandoned him either.

 

[Kittn]

It's really only so unlikely if you're taking a lot of things for granted mostly the nature of Nero's mother. It seems everyone is saying Vergil wouldn't dare do that kinda thing to a human woman. Wherein that 'kinda thing' has to be intimate and deal with a relationship of some sort or driven by primitive carnal desires.

With as many demon-blooded ladies as this series has seen, who says his mom is pedigree human stock? And even if she were, what say we combine 2 of the theories - the 'created' one and the Vergil's son one.

V was in Fortuna for some reason. Knowledge. Power, obviously. The order was looking into demonic things and toying with demon spirits and demon dna or whatever the heck they were doing. What if in exchange for power or something of Sparda's or the right piece of info (Maybe something about that tower...), V agreed to participate in one of their silly experiments - one that also included a human woman and er... fluid exchange. 6.6; A 'nothin' personal, lady.' Kinda thing.

IIRC from the novel translation, Sanctus is the one who delivers a little detail about Nero's mother to him - about her being a tramp or something. It's been a while, though, so I could be misremembering that bit. Anyway, if he masterminded it, he'd know about it. Likely lying about her occupation, as I'll bet something untoward happened to the lady after Nero's birth. You know, to keep things quiet.

How's that for a theory?

 

[V]

The Vergil son theory is unlikely, as Capcom will basically have to make it explicit that Vergil had a one night stand before DMC3, and I can't think of a way they would do that in a game. It doesn't really explain why his mom abandoned him either.

Like Kittn says, we really are assuming a lot; we assume a one night stand is the likeliest explanation for a Vergil/son idea but why should we? They found Yamato broken and parts of Nelo Angelo in Fortuna; it could be that something occurred there that resulted in Vergil having his ass kicked and Nero's mother dying/disappearing/abandoning Nero for reasons unknown - except to say that people don't usually abandon their kids in normal, safe situations. Who knows, maybe Vergil was protecting her.

Of course, Sanctus telling fibs about it is more than likely too.

 

[King of Hell]

you are just assuming Vergil is one-dimensional character, he has no personality except NEED MORE POWER, sure it is a priority, or THE priority of his life, but that doesn't make him a low-life "I NEED MORE POWER" broken record kind of guy. we know absolutely NOTHING about his personal habits & traits, nothing would be out of character if we know nothing about his life except his thirst for power.
he could have had a one-night-stand, he could have fell in love with someone, HE IS CAPABLE of love, love isn't something you can control anyway, or hell it could be Nelo Angelo & another she-demon. though its highly unlikely that he fell in love, I wouldn't say its out of character if the story demanded it, yamato might've been broken because Vergil was trying to protect his family like someone earlier have said.
there are other things that imply that Nero wasn't cloned, one thing is, Sanctus didn't know that Nero possessed demonic power, but he called for him as soon as he heard, maybe he knew a few things, but not enough to make him know everything about Nero, he would have used Nero a lot earlier.

Nero possessing only Vergil's arm is a working theory, its only problem is that the writers have been hiding his "origin", its a build up for something more, but it could be just a diversion, fool us into thinking the other way around.

the plot holes in those theories can be easily fixed, if there are any.
there are other things that imply that Nero wasn't cloned, one thing is, Sanctus didn't know that Nero possessed demonic power, but he called for him as soon as he heard, maybe he knew a few things, but not enough to make him know everything about Nero, he would have used Nero a lot earlier.

 

[V]

Yeah... we're all guilty of assuming characters will always act a certain way in backstory or upcoming games, I guess... when the whole overriding theme of the Devil May Cry series is that no-one is immutable, not even devils.

Nero's arm though... there's just something about the design of it to me that is more than just a bit coincidentally Vergil-ish. The shapes, colours and so on. Might have nothing to do with him but it gives credence to an idea that maybe Vergil was seriously slated for 4 and was ditched at some point in the production.

 

[King of Hell]

earlier concept arts showed a gold Devil Bringer. more earlier concept arts showed that Dante was the main character, & Vergil was in the game, somehow.

his arm means something, I agree with you, but we don't know what yet, maybe capcom wanna pull a Liquid Ocelot on us.

 

[moseslmpg]

Like Kittn says, we really are assuming a lot; we assume a one night stand is the likeliest explanation for a Vergil/son idea but why should we? They found Yamato broken and parts of Nelo Angelo in Fortuna; it could be that something occurred there that resulted in Vergil having his ass kicked and Nero's mother dying/disappearing/abandoning Nero for reasons unknown - except to say that people don't usually abandon their kids in normal, safe situations. Who knows, maybe Vergil was protecting her.

Of course, Sanctus telling fibs about it is more than likely too.

Well, it is the likeliest explanation based on what we know of his character. And I don't think it says they found the Yamato on Fortuna, it doesn't really specify. I always assumed they either went to Mallet or they found it in one of the Hellgates. All the rest of that speculation is too complex, it has to account for too much. It is safer and more logical to work backwards from what we know about Vergil.

And let's not forget, the part where Nero is "revealed" as Vergil's son is hearsay in the actual novel. It is a rumor being told in a novel of questionable canonicity. Hardly worth anything at all.

you are just assuming Vergil is one-dimensional character, he has no personality except NEED MORE POWER, sure it is a priority, or THE priority of his life, but that doesn't make him a low-life "I NEED MORE POWER" broken record kind of guy.

No, I am simply assuming Vergil is a consistent character. Aside from a knock on the head, he would have no reason to act any differently than we see him in the DMC3 gme and manga.

we know absolutely NOTHING about his personal habits & traits, nothing would be out of character if we know nothing about his life except his thirst for power.

We know enough about him to know that it would be out of character to sleep with a human on a random island or to actually raise a child. Just because his life isn't constantly defined by his lust for power doesn't mean he is open to doing absolutely anything else. We can only speculate based on what we do know, not on what we don't.

he could have had a one-night-stand, he could have fell in love with someone, HE IS CAPABLE of love, love isn't something you can control anyway, or hell it could be Nelo Angelo & another she-demon. though its highly unlikely that he fell in love, I wouldn't say its out of character if the story demanded it, yamato might've been broken because Vergil was trying to protect his family like someone earlier have said.

None of this is supported by any of his canonical appearances. And I doubt Yamato broke when he was trying to project anyone. That would have to be one beastly devil he was fighting.

there are other things that imply that Nero wasn't cloned, one thing is, Sanctus didn't know that Nero possessed demonic power, but he called for him as soon as he heard, maybe he knew a few things, but not enough to make him know everything about Nero, he would have used Nero a lot earlier.

Sanctus did know about Nero, he knew he was a descendant of Sparda and that is made apparent in the game. The only reason Sanctus didn't do anything earlier was, as he said, he had hoped to use Dante for the Savior since Dante is more powerful. So this is not evidence against the clone theory.

The issue is not whether one theory is possible or not, since in fiction anything is possible. But we have to favor the theories that are simpler, more coherent, and more harmonious with established canon. For example, I can use my well established "hamster theory" to illustrate: Nero could actually just be a group of demonic space hamsters inside and intricate robotic humanoid suit operating it like a puppet. His arm is full of their space hamster poo which is radioactive and ionizes the air around it, making it glow blue and giving it powers.

Now, this is literally just as possible as any other theory out there, but it definitely is very unreasonable and unlikely. My objections to the other theories are based on their lack of simplicity or their lack of coherence with the established series.

 

[V]

maybe capcom wanna pull a Liquid Ocelot on us.

 

[King of Hell]

No, I am simply assuming Vergil is a consistent character. Aside from a knock on the head, he would have no reason to act any differently than we see him in the DMC3 gme and manga.

We know enough about him to know that it would be out of character to sleep with a human on a random island or to actually raise a child. Just because his life isn't constantly defined by his lust for power doesn't mean he is open to doing absolutely anything else. We can only speculate based on what we do know, not on what we don't.

EXACTLY, & what we know is that Vergil hungers for power, we don't know whether he sleeps with women or not, so we can't just assume he doesn't have sex just because he wants power, those two things are completely different. you just made my point more clear, we can't assume that Vergil's character is "I want more power", & nothing else, we know that aspect only, & being power hungry & having sex aren't contradictory events either.

Sanctus did know about Nero, he knew he was a descendant of Sparda and that is made apparent in the game. The only reason Sanctus didn't do anything earlier was, as he said, he had hoped to use Dante for the Savior since Dante is more powerful. So this is not evidence against the clone theory.

as I said, what he knew wasn't enough, maybe he just speculated, he ordered Credo to arrest Nero as soon as Agnus confirmed it. & maybe he did know, but they can't clone Vergil & have a mysterious POWERFUL arm that even Vergil didn't have, & why would they clone Nero & then throw him out, just to be found later by Credo & Kyrie, there are a lot of reasons, not just whether Sanctus knows that Nero has Sparda's blood or not.

LMAO, its possible, we could see Nero in the next game switching between Nero & Vergil, lol.

 

[moseslmpg]

EXACTLY, & what we know is that Vergil hungers for power, we don't know whether he sleeps with women or not, so we can't just assume he doesn't have sex just because he wants power, those two things are completely different. you just made my point more clear, we can't assume that Vergil's character is "I want more power", & nothing else, we know that aspect only, & being power hungry & having sex aren't contradictory events either.

Given that this is a game we are talking about, and not a reality, we definitely can assume that Vergil does not have sex. And, there is a well established occult connection between sex and power as well.

My point is that we can't assume based on what we don't know. So we can't assume that Vergil impregnated a women over his established character in the game and manga. There are few if any scenarios that would work out without contradicting that established character. Again, not impossible, but possibility is a moot point here.

as I said, what he knew wasn't enough, maybe he just speculated, he ordered Credo to arrest Nero as soon as Agnus confirmed it. & maybe he did know, but they can't clone Vergil & have a mysterious POWERFUL arm that even Vergil didn't have, & why would they clone Nero & then throw him out, just to be found later by Credo & Kyrie, there are a lot of reasons, not just whether Sanctus knows that Nero has Sparda's blood or not.

No, he definitely KNEW already. He may not have known that Nero had the DB, but he definitely knew Nero was from Sparda.

If the DB is an issue for the clone theory, then it totally blows the son theory out of the water. As for why they threw him out to be raised by an orphanage, well, that would erase the trail of evidence, and it is much safer than raising him in captivity.

Yeah........

 

[King of Hell]

Given that this is a game we are talking about, and not a reality, we definitely can assume that Vergil does not have sex. And, there is a well established occult connection between sex and power as well.

My point is that we can't assume based on what we don't know. So we can't assume that Vergil impregnated a women over his established character in the game and manga. There are few if any scenarios that would work out without contradicting that established character. Again, not impossible, but possibility is a moot point here.

the series NEVER made any mention of sex in any game, how can there be a connection? & based on your logic, we can't assume Vergil didn't have sex because we don't know whether he did or not.

No, he definitely KNEW already. He may not have known that Nero had the DB, but he definitely knew Nero was from Sparda.

If the DB is an issue for the clone theory, then it totally blows the son theory out of the water. As for why they threw him out to be raised by an orphanage, well, that would erase the trail of evidence, and it is much safer than raising him in captivity.

except we don't know anything about Nero's mother, a clone is a carbon copy of Vergil, a son can have genes from both of his parents, a mix between a half-breed & a human or a demon can make a different kind of half-breed. but a clone can never face anywhere other than an exact carbon copy of Vergil.

& the order blindly trusted their leaders, they wouldn't question the leader if he came out & said I found a boy outside.

he was found during CHILDHOOD, he was a child not an infant when he was found.

by the way, all theories have plot holes I agree on that, but to me, being Vergil's son has the least (which can easily be covered in a few words), maybe followed by the Oceliquid theory (in this case, Nergil).

 

[dil344]

One thing i have never ever seen anyone mention about Nero is that he may not be related by Spardas side but by Dantes/Virgils mother.

He may be a cousin. he may just be using Yamato as a devil arm maybe he is possessed in some way by Virgil and this is only possible because of his human heritage. i mean his hand turned into demonic form whats to say he did not originally have blond hair like Eva and just got white when he gained the arm.

i mean Dante said when he let nero keep yamato gotta keep it in the family.

In my mind this just makes more sense then clones/reincarnation. I mean this idea could be worked into dmc4 very easily and could make an interesting plot for the 5th game. but just wanted to throw this out there so there was another angle to look at it from.

 

[King of Hell]

except the resemblance between him & Dante/Vergil, they have the look of Sparda not Eva, so it doesn't really work, your theory has a good concept, though.

 

[darkslayer13]

One thing i have never ever seen anyone mention about Nero is that he may not be related by Spardas side but by Dantes/Virgils mother.

He may be a cousin. he may just be using Yamato as a devil arm maybe he is possessed in some way by Virgil and this is only possible because of his human heritage. i mean his hand turned into demonic form whats to say he did not originally have blond hair like Eva and just got white when he gained the arm.

i mean Dante said when he let nero keep yamato gotta keep it in the family.

In my mind this just makes more sense then clones/reincarnation. I mean this idea could be worked into dmc4 very easily and could make an interesting plot for the 5th game. but just wanted to throw this out there so there was another angle to look at it from.

interesting theory but it has already been officially established that Nero is somehow related to Sparda. an not by the thousands of vague hints about Nero. to complete the Savior someone with the blood of Sparda was needed. when Nero was absorbed by the Savior it was completed. that means that somehow Nero is related to Sparda. the only question is how.

 

[moseslmpg]

the series NEVER made any mention of sex in any game, how can there be a connection? & based on your logic, we can't assume Vergil didn't have sex because we don't know whether he did or not.

By my logic, we can't assume Vergil had sex because there is nothing that points to it. And the fact that the series has never made any mention of sex would make it pretty hard for it to admit that Vergil had sex. The only way they could do this is by introducing Nero's mother, at which time they would have to explain her constant absence as well.

It is too complex and it is too much in conflict with what we know of Vergil's character.

except we don't know anything about Nero's mother, a clone is a carbon copy of Vergil, a son can have genes from both of his parents, a mix between a half-breed & a human or a demon can make a different kind of half-breed. but a clone can never face anywhere other than an exact carbon copy of Vergil.

First of all, the "clone theory" is just the name. It doesn't mean that Nero is a literal clone, but just that there was no intercourse involved. He can still have two progenitors in the clone theory. As for his mother, we don't even know if Nero has a mother. Neither does he apparently.

& the order blindly trusted their leaders, they wouldn't question the leader if he came out & said I found a boy outside.

I'm pretty sure they would, if that child was a child of Sparda. Who would raise him then? Real, when you create an artificial being, it is always better to have it raised offsite and activated remotely. That way it doesn't bust out of the containment area and want vengeance, etc.

he was found during CHILDHOOD, he was a child not an infant when he was found.

I seriously doubt that is a distinction Capcom made. Child = infant for these purposes

by the way, all theories have plot holes I agree on that, but to me, being Vergil's son has the least (which can easily be covered in a few words), maybe followed by the Oceliquid theory (in this case, Nergil).

Look, Vergil son theory is too complext and too much has to be explained away. Ocelot theory only explains part of it. Clone theory is the simplest and easiest to explain. They took DNA from Vergil while he was in Fortuna, Sanctus made a clone/whatever for use in the Savior, the rest is history.

The cousin theory is interesting, and I think with a little work, it could actually work. In my deuterocanon, the twins do have an uncle related to Sparda, and it does play into the whole DB thing as well...I think it could work, but they would have to do too much in the next game to explain it. So, unlikely.

 

[King of Hell]

I just want one solid explanation to why its out of character for Vergil to have sex, not the "he only wants power" explanation, its not solid, its just an assumption. it doesn't rule out anything.
the clone theory has its flaws, Sanctus originally wanted Dante to form the core of the savior, so he didn't make Nero to form the core. secondly, you still didn't give me an explanation to why make just one clone? & they used Vergil's soul to create the Bianco Angelos.
so here are the problems:
-they cloned Vergil, & they only made one copy.
-as soon as they got a hold of Vergil's soul, they made the Bianco Angelos, they actually mass produced them, they didn't make just one
-a part from Vergil was new to them, they couldn't make the Angelos before Vergil's death, they didn't have something that belongs to him before his death, if they did, they'd make useful uses of those parts
-who cloned Vergil? Agnus started the experiments a few years before DMC4, so capcom would come out & say some unknown scientist made the experiment 20 years ago?
-the weirdest thing is, its out of character for Vergil to have sex? but its totally a Vergil thing to do to give some unknown scientist a part of his DNA?

^^add all those up, & its 100 times more complex than being Vergil's son theory.

the Ocelot theory is still possible, its kinda the first theory that popped into my head when I first played the game. I always thought DMC4 was a build up for a Dante vs Nervil in DMC5. this theory still has its flaws, though.

& I don't think another demon, let alone Sparda's brother, loved the humans, so being cousins is still a hard theory. the game made it clear that Sparda loved & protected mankind by himself, they'd mention it if a brother fought alongside him.

 

[moseslmpg]

You want an explanation: Because 1. it is a game and they would never be able to admit he had sex 2. He has never expressed even the remotest interest in a being of the opposite sex 3. Due to his power fetish and distaste for weaker beings, he wouldn't have sex with a woman, especially not a human one 4. He seems to place the utmost importance on decorum and training and wouldnot waste his energy on such a frivolous and weakening activity as sex. I can go on with reasons and I'm sure you can come up with rationalizations for why I am wrong, so why don't you just give me reasons why it would be in character for him to have sex with a random human woman. That will be easier.

I never said the clone theory was perfect, I said it was the simplest and most likely, unless you consider the human castoff theory sound.
-Sanctus wanted Dante to use as the core, but he made Nero as a backup plan, from Vergil's DNA. Sanctus is a crafty guy, as it is implied he poisoned the last leader, in the novel.
-Why would they make more than one clone? Didn't you see how Nero was enough of a problem on his own? The first rule of cloning soldiers with superpowers is never to clone an army of them, because they will overthrow you. Villainy 101, seriously.
-Vergil's soul has nothing to do with this. That is already ridiculous enough, that they used his "soul." That's just dumb. The difference is that the Angelos are basically robots or drone, while Nero is an actual person with free angency.
-They could have easily had his DNA since he went to Fortuna before, when Sanctus was there, as per the novel. You only need DNA to clone something.
-Who cloned him? I don't know how that is relevant. Someone cloned him about 17 years ago, before DMC3. We don't know who did it. That is not even remotely a flaw in the theory.
-Who said Vergil gave them the DNA? You can get DNA from a piece of hair or blood, even skin. Given that both Dante and Vergil do battle a lot, it would be easy to get something from them. Either that, or Vergil allowed the Order to inspect him, since he would be like a living legend to them. Really, this is a non-issue.

No, it isn't complex at all really. You have only listed your misunderstandings of the clone theory. It is the most likely given the style of the Order and its capabilities in producing artificial beings and work with demonic technology.

The Ocelot theory doesn't work though, I think, because it doesn't explain how Nero got Sparda blood or why his hair is white.

And again, what is this deal with associating love and reproduction. Artificial insemination anyone? Seriously.