Nero. Is he really Vergil's son?

[Vampi]

I like older men Even though my BF is a few years younger then me. But anyway...

I can't imagine how old he is in DMC 2. But i LOVE the way he looks in DMC 2 out of all the different versions of him.

I think Kobayashi said that Dante is around his early to mid-30's. Nero is in his late teens. Kyrie is a year older then Nero and probably Credo is in his late 20's

 

[King of Hell]

If by "hostile," you mean me calling you to back your argument up rather than blindly throwing objections that you don't even understand, then yeah, I am requesting a little rigor on your part.

All you have done is nitpick at the clone theory (with invalid objections, I might add) without a shred of evidence to back yours up. If you can't defend your theory logically, then it probably isn't something you or anyone should be believing in, and it is definitely not something you should be arguing for.

I don't need to say anything, you just don't wanna listen to what I say, & you make your assumptions as facts. I'm sorry if I offended you in any way, but I don't wanna argue with you anymore, its useless.

btw, if your theory is modified to make Nero being cloned by completely someone else, someone unrelated to fortuna, it would work. just my opinion, agree or disagree, your call.

I like older men Even though my BF is a few years younger then me. But anyway...

I can't imagine how old he is in DMC 2. But i LOVE the way he looks in DMC 2 out of all the different versions of him.

I think Kobayashi said that Dante is around his early to mid-30's. Nero is in his late teens. Kyrie is a year older then Nero and probably Credo is in his late 20's

I agree that the only thing good about DMC2 was Dante's design, ESPECIALLY his DT.
& where did you read that interview, what I do know is that Nero was 19 in DMC4, this is the only thing confirmed as far as I thought. can you give me a link to the interview you're talking about?
but I always assumed that Dante was in his mid 30s in DMC4, DMC3 & 1 were 10 years apart, & by the looks of things, DMC4 might take place 5-7 years after DMC1. Lady does look in her early 30s after all.

 

[Kittn]

I like older men Even though my BF is a few years younger then me. But anyway...

I can't imagine how old he is in DMC 2. But i LOVE the way he looks in DMC 2 out of all the different versions of him.

I think Kobayashi said that Dante is around his early to mid-30's. Nero is in his late teens. Kyrie is a year older then Nero and probably Credo is in his late 20's

Ditto on the older guys. (My better half is 5 years younger than me though!)

I love the way Dante looks in 2, too. And I've easily seen 40 year old men look that good. :3 So I'll happily sit with the mid 30s Dante theory. There's such a stigma about 30+ being ancient in video games. It's refreshing when someone breaks the mold.

 

[moseslmpg]

That does make more sense, although since the anime and DMC4 could take place at any time, it is impossible to tell. That's another thing I hate about Kobayashi, even if it isn't directly his fault: Ignoring the timeline.

 

[moseslmpg]

I don't need to say anything, you just don't wanna listen to what I say, & you make your assumptions as facts. I'm sorry if I offended you in any way, but I don't wanna argue with you anymore, its useless.

No, you just realize you can't actually defend your theory because it is crap. You haven't offended me except in your refusal to actually engage in a logical discussion. I would love to listen to what you say about the son theory, but so far all I have heard is whining about my theory, and nothing about yours.

Do you understand this? Unless you can give evidence for your theory, it is a non-theory, it is invalid. Someone help this guy understand me.

btw, if your theory is modified to make Nero being cloned by completely someone else, someone unrelated to fortuna, it would work. just my opinion, agree or disagree, your call.

Yes, it would work, showing that it is sound, simple, and versatile as well. But being cloned off of Fortuna wouldn't make any sense given the info we know from the game and the novel.

Anyway, if Dante is say 35 in DMC4, that means 7 years have passed since DMC1 when he was 28. DMC3 was 10 years before that when he was 18. The manga was a year before that when they were both 17. That is 18 years ago, meaning Nero had to be created at least a year before that, making him 19.

So either Nero is 19 and Dante is 35 or Dante is 33 and Nero is 17 in DMC4. Or something in the middle.

Edit: Sorry, double post.

 

[King of Hell]

I've been arguing with you for the last few pages, you keep giving me the same excuse "Vergil LUVS POWER", I keep rebutting you, you keep giving me the same excuse, & every time I point a flaw in your theory, "NO, MY THEORY IS PERFECT, ITS THE SIMPLEST THEORY, THAT'S A FACT", that's what I got from the subtext of your posts.

so I'm done arguing with you, its useless.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

While I do not agree with KoH for the most part, I do agree that you are very "in your face" with your theories. Just something I've noticed.

The last person who acted like that, SpardaTM, had such a God Complex like that that he got banned. So I'm trying to keep you unbanned, not trying to insult you.

 

[moseslmpg]

I've been arguing with you for the last few pages, you keep giving me the same excuse "Vergil LUVS POWER", I keep rebutting you, you keep giving me the same excuse, & every time I point a flaw in your theory, "NO, MY THEORY IS PERFECT, ITS THE SIMPLEST THEORY, THAT'S A FACT", that's what I got from the subtext of your posts.

so I'm done arguing with you, its useless.

The thing is, I wasn't initially trying to support my theory, I was trying to see what you had to support your theory. Apparently, nothing.

You shouldn't be rebutting me, you should be giving me something so I can see if your theory stands up to logic and reason. The only reason we are arguing is because you refuse to engage in an honest debate. That is a fact.

I never said my theory was perfect (it isn't really even mine), although it is the simplest and most elegant, and I'm not going to apologize for that. I have nothing against you personally, but your theory is unsound and unsupported, and if you don't want people to argue with it, then don't reveal it in public anymore.


Dread: I don't have a god complex or anything like that, but I do take debates seriously. I'm not someone to back down just because "everyone has opinions." That's not the way the world works. If that comes off as more aggressive than regular posters, there's nothing I can do about it. As far as I know, I have violated no TOS and there is no grounds to ban or even chide me, really.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

I was not implying you had a god complex. I'm sorry if it was misconstrued as such.

I believe in the "everyone has their opinion" belief, however, meaning we're probably going to butt heads time and time again over that...

 

[moseslmpg]

I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion as well, but theories aren't opinions. You can't have one guy saying it is his opinion that gravity doesn't exist, because then his opinion is wrong. Good theories are separated from bad theories by examining the evidence and applying logic and reason to them. That is all I'm doing.

My conclusion is that the son theory is invalid and/or has no evidence to support it.

Edit: I do grandstand, but usually not on foreign forums. I tend to humble myself before the authority of forums not my own. And my home forum has no moderator, so I may be a little rough around the edges, but I don't berate people or insult them.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion as well, but theories aren't opinions. You can't have one guy saying it is his opinion that gravity doesn't exist, because then his opinion is wrong. Good theories are separated from bad theories by examining the evidence and applying logic and reason to them. That is all I'm doing.

My conclusion is that the son theory is invalid and/or has no evidence to support it.

Theories are based off opinion, though.

I do agree with you that he has no evidence, and it just acting butthurt about it.

 

[moseslmpg]

Theories aren't based on opinion, they are based on evidence. There is a difference between asking what color underwear Dante wears and asking where Nero comes from. One of them is a matter of opinion, and in one of them there is a matter of fact, which theories attempt to get at.

Whether someone likes a theory or not is a matter of opinion, whether a theory is sound and likely is a matter of fact.

 

[darkslayer13]

the theory most likely to become fact is unfortunitly the Nero is Vergil's son theory. not from evidence within the dmc canon( since Nero is a new idea you won't find much of that for any theory), but from the clear hints provided by the creators ( the novel, Nero's connection with the color blue( to a greater extent than his connection to red),Yamato, etc.) and the fact that it requires no imagination to come up with. it makes no sense whatsoever but it will still probably happen.

theories for fiction are far different from theories about real life. the creators of any work of fiction can change any rules at any time and decide things with no reason or explanation.

at this very moment Nero is none of those things until the creators of the series decided to make him one and what they are most likely to decide is that Nero is Vergil's son ( that or Capcom will react the same way they did after dmc2 and forget about Nero and dmc4 entirely)

 

[moseslmpg]

I don't deny that it might happen, but it is basically unsupportable at this point. There is nothing that actually points to it over any other theory.

I'm aware of how fictional world work though nothing is done without reason, and fiction actually requires more definite rules than the real world. Capcom could make Nero a mutated demon space hamster if they wanted to, but we know that won't happen, and if they did that, it wouldn't be canonical no matter how official.

 

[Dante's Stalker]

Quote Moses:

The novel is on the liminality between canon and non-canon. It is like a secondary referene. And btw, not even the novel says Nero is Vergil's son. It says that Nero is rumored to be the son of a prostitute and maybe Vergil, but no one really knows.

If it was said in the novel that Nero is speculated to be Vergil's son, and bringing a reason as to how this could have been accomplished, it was written that way intentionally to make the reader come to the assumption that Vergil was making use of girls in his time spent in Fortuna, and that Nero probably is his son. It doesn't need to be said in so many words, if it's implied, or the breadcrumbs are laid out for the reader to follow it home, then anyone who reads the novel will come to the same conclusion - Nero is Vergil's son. Possibly. Why would they put that in the novel if it wasn't true? Why would that Capcom employee say that they did plan on Nero being Vergil's son if it wasn't true?
What, so now Capcom are lying to us?! <- that's a bit of sarcasm, btw.

What I want to know is whether the DMC4 novels are canon or not. From my understanding, DMC2 novel, the manga, the anime, and then obviously all the games are canon, but I don't think Capcom has specifically said the DMC4 novels aren't canon.

And quote KoH:

Lady is still in her 30s

In DMC4? Are you NUTS? She looks in her early twenties, if anything. You get wrinkles by the time you reach your late twenties, and seeing as she's not demon and doesn't have Dante's oooh-sooo-smooth-for-old-age skin, she's got to be early twenties.

 

[Devil Bane]

Yup and for those asking about the timeline,it's :

DMC3 Manga

DMC3
DMC1
DMC anime
DMC4
DMC2

Now for more info and accurate ages,I suggest you visit : http://devilmaycry.wikia.com/wiki/Devil_May_Cry_Wiki

 

[Vampi]

Chloe_Ryder: Yea, Lady is suppose to be in her early 30's at the most and late 20's at the least. I swear she better get sum wrinkles in the future. I hate when video game companies don't feature older woman. Ivy from Soul Calibur is in her early 30's and The Boss from MGS 3 is like in her early 40's. The only one who should stay looking young is Trish cause she's a full demon.

 

[moseslmpg]

Quote Moses:


If it was said in the novel that Nero is speculated to be Vergil's son, and bringing a reason as to how this could have been accomplished, it was written that way intentionally to make the reader come to the assumption that Vergil was making use of girls in his time spent in Fortuna, and that Nero probably is his son. It doesn't need to be said in so many words, if it's implied, or the breadcrumbs are laid out for the reader to follow it home, then anyone who reads the novel will come to the same conclusion - Nero is Vergil's son. Possibly. Why would they put that in the novel if it wasn't true? Why would that Capcom employee say that they did plan on Nero being Vergil's son if it wasn't true?
What, so now Capcom are lying to us?! <- that's a bit of sarcasm, btw.

You have to remember that the novel is a bunch of information that they were going to include in the game but didn't, written by an ex-Capcom employee, and it seems to contradict parts of the games. So it can't be taken as strictly non-canonical. It can help us make educated guesses, but that's it.

But yes, the stuff in the novel does make it seem like they were going to make Nero Vergil's son. But the novel explicitly says that this is a rumor, meaning that yes, it is meant to be misleading. So yes, Capcom could definitely be lying to us, to try to make us believe Nero is Vergil's son, but *SURPRISE!!* he actually is Vergil's half brother or something. It is a common tactic in books and I wouldn't put it past Capcom to try and be clever like this.

Just because someone says something doesn't make it automatically true, especially if it explicitly marked as hearsay. Just because the reader is led to the conclusion, doesn't make the conclusion true, is what I'm saying.

What I want to know is whether the DMC4 novels are canon or not. From my understanding, DMC2 novel, the manga, the anime, and then obviously all the games are canon, but I don't think Capcom has specifically said the DMC4 novels aren't canon.

Capcom hasn't said anything is canon, that has all been decided by fans based primarily on the games. For instance, most people don't consider the DMC2 novel as canonical, as since it has no real relation to the games, it is optional. It can be taken as provisional canon, but it is not necessary canon. Same with the anime. The manga is canon as it is a direct prequel that explains DMC3. And as mentioned before, the DMC4 novel is on very shaky ground.

And quote KoH:

In DMC4? Are you NUTS? She looks in her early twenties, if anything. You get wrinkles by the time you reach your late twenties, and seeing as she's not demon and doesn't have Dante's oooh-sooo-smooth-for-old-age skin, she's got to be early twenties.

She can't be. Dante is 35 in DMC4, so Lady has to be in her early thirties. But I'm sure she had some work done courtesy of Kobayashi's Plastic Surgery Boutique.

Yes..a..hmm....

 

[Dante's Stalker]

I hate Capcom. That's all I have to say.

 

[Kittn]

On the age issues: People age differently. My mother in law is 56 years old and doesn't have a single wrinkle on her face. And as much as I hate to disappoint the majority, I don't have any either. I hit the 30 mark this year.

So, you really can't judge a Lady by her cover. (or lack thereof. Ugh, that outfit...) I think her face looked fine, and that she could easily be 30+ in it.

Back on topic: With as many posts and threads as Nero's daddy issues have seen on multiple forums, I expect things are going exactly as Capcom planned. Who knows, at this rate, maybe they'll never give the official word on the subject in the games just to keep everyone guessing. Sometimes its ok not to have everything spelled out for you. A little mystery now and then is a good thing, IMO.