Nero and Sparda

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Seriously, Sparda™. I'm sorry, but Sparda IS dead. The first game outright said it, the MANGA said it, the ANIME said it, REPEATEDLY, the fact he was dead is the reason Eva was murdered. He's DEAD, that's the entire reason Dante and Vergil resented him for years; he wasn't there. Not vanished, not unseen, outright dead. The entire prologue of DMC1 is based around that fact, hell, the entire mythos of why Dante is the new Dark Knight of the human world is centered around that. And no, the story is not based on DMC3, it's all based on DMC1 the first came to come out. DMC3 was a prequel, setting up stuff BASED on that story. This isn't Friggin' Star Wars where they went back and reditted the original to match a newer one. YOu have to say that the entire prologue info of the first game is invalidated in order to say "he's not dead".

And again, WHERE does Arkham ever say "I named you after your ancestor" All he said was that a priestess was sacrificed in addition to Sparda's power, and that the same blood as that priestess was in Mary's veins. He never said she was named for the priestess, and never said ANYTHING about requiring a virgin's blood, only that her blood specifically was the third key to the lock on Temen-ni-gru. You have not said WHERE this is supposedly revealed, you just keep going "well, she's named for the priestess". You are not giving me references, no quotes from exact place. I want that before you go saying "what I say on this is the canon". Otherwise, you can't say "this is the fact". I want exact quotes and the source of your supposed information. Until then, I still refer to the Priestess as Beatrice. Why? That should be obvious why. And for reference, for QUOTE the revelation of Mary's lineage.

"He sacrificed two things to suppress the tremendous force of this tower: His own Devil’s blood and a mortal priestess. I needed you, in whose body flows the same blood as the sacrificed woman. His spell cannot be undone without your blood!"

I fail to see where it mentions she shares the same name, just the "same blood".


Oh, and actually, yes, we do have proof of celestial beings in DMC. The fallen friggin' angels from DMC3 and the fact that angels are directly referenced in DMC4, as well as the references in DMC3 manga. We don't see the real thing other than those that Fell and were in Temen-Ni-Gru, but there is documented references to their existence.

Rai: "From that day forth, my arm changed". You know, that's an indication of when the change started. If he's said "On that day, my arm changed," that would be different. Nero's arm, as we saw, was not in full Bringer form even at the beginning of DMC4, It was in a "cocoon" state, and fully bloomed into Bringer form when impacted on by Rebellion, a Sword of Sparda. It was constantly evolving, it was not a "poof!" all at once change. Rai, you're constantly arguing against canon that Nero is not related to Sparda at all, when the developers have admitted yes he is. Agnus considered him a dirty work errand boy, just like the rest of the order, why would they use him as a experiment? Considering they only used the Angelo fragments on their best and honored knights and members, why use a "trash-collector" for something that important> He was surprised that Nero had ANY inkling of demonic power, let alone the power of friggin' Sparda. He's part of the lineage, it's canon, Word of God, the works. You don't randomly develop Demonic power from a lousy blood injection.
 
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Lady shares her original name, Mary, with the Virgin Mary, who called on St. Lucia and Beatrice to aid the poet Dante Alighieri in his sojourn through Hell. As such, her chosen name of "Lady" is likely then a reference to one of the Virgin's other names, "Madonna" (Italian for "Lady").

There you go.

Beatrice was used with Trish, so the priestess having the name Mary, and that name being used for Lady, is a big reference to me.
 
You are seriously telling me you concluded that the priestess' name was Mary based on the fact that Lady's original given name was Mary and from the Divine Comedy connections,and call it canon?

The priestess is never named, I quoted the game itself to prove it. Lady herself is supposed to be an analog to Blessed Mary, I don't see how her ancestor would have the same name by any logic. Plus, by Mary being a descendant of the priestess, clearly the priestess herself was NOT a virgin when she was sacrificed. she'd already mothered children to continue her line. Therefore, the logic of your theory is lost.
 
Dante Redgrave;195021 said:
You are seriously telling me you concluded that the priestess' name was Mary based on the fact that Lady's original given name was Mary and from the Divine Comedy connections,and call it canon?

The priestess is never named, I quoted the game itself to prove it. Lady herself is supposed to be an analog to Blessed Mary, I don't see how her ancestor would have the same name by any logic. Plus, by Mary being a descendant of the priestess, clearly the priestess herself was NOT a virgin when she was sacrificed. she'd already mothered children to continue her line. Therefore, the logic of your theory is lost.

My logic is fine.

Her blood was sacrificed, not herself. She was a virgin at the time.
 
...Arkham stated outright the priestess herself was sacrificed. Not her blood, but the priestess...dear god, I just quoted verbatim the line, and now you're trying to alter the entire LINE just to match what you wann'a say is "fact".

I give up. You don't want canon, you want to make up your own and enforce it on other people. You try twisting and ignoring stated information to try and say Nero is a "lost third son", you ignore direct quotations of the game and entirely twist the meaning stated just to match what you want it to mean...
 
Dante Redgrave;195024 said:
...Arkham stated outright the priestess herself was sacrificed. Not her blood, but the priestess...dear god, I just quoted verbatim the line, and now you're trying to alter the entire LINE just to match what you wann'a say is "fact".

I give up. You don't want canon, you want to make up your own and enforce it on other people. You try twisting and ignoring stated information to try and say Nero is a "lost third son", you ignore direct quotations of the game and entirely twist the meaning stated just to match what you want it to mean...

We're just having a discussion. If you wanna bail this, It's your call.

Also, I never stated Nero was a third son, as I've been telling continuously, I'm only speculating with that.
 
No, it's hardly a discussion when you keep ignoring things I point out as flaws in your logic. Arkham said the priestess was sacrificed, a human life. You ignore that and claim "only her blood was sacrificed". That's in direct conflicted with what the game said.

The priestess was never named, and she died to seal the tower. Again, quoted word for word.

"Even the heroic Sparda sacrificed a woman so that he could become a
legend!"

The priestess died to seal Temen Ni Gru. You cannot argue otherwise. Thus, she's already mothered a family before she became the sealing sacrifice.
 
For the name of the priestess, I'm 100% positive It is true. I'm looking for the source I read It from.

I'm not quite sure of the fact If the blood was needed to be of a virgin woman, or not.
 
Zato-OW;195031 said:
I thought a priestess has to be a virgin?

Exactly what was thinking myself.

Maybe Lady comes from the bloodline of that priestess, like her sister or something.
 
No, priestess doesn't equal virgin automatically. In shinto, for example, shrine maidens and mikos have to be virgins, but a priestess does not. Since Arkham referenced Lady as having the same blood as that priestess, that means said priestess had direct descendants before she died to seal the tower.
 
Dante Redgrave;195033 said:
No, priestess doesn't equal virgin automatically. In shinto, for example, shrine maidens and mikos have to be virgins, but a priestess does not. Since Arkham referenced Lady as having the same blood as that priestess, that means said priestess had direct descendants before she died to seal the tower.

I'm sure the priestess Sparda met was of European religion.lol
 
Well, duh, but that was an example. the whole "must be a virgin" thinking is actually a christian induced preconception. The old pre-christian faiths didn't require a priestess to be a virgin, and in all likelihood, they weren't since a number of old pagan faiths involved sex as part of rituals. Considering the probably region and the faiths there of back then, christian denominations would not have been factored. Sop it would be old pre-non christian faiths that the priestess came from.
 
Dante Redgrave;195058 said:
Well, duh, but that was an example. the whole "must be a virgin" thinking is actually a christian induced preconception. The old pre-christian faiths didn't require a priestess to be a virgin, and in all likelihood, they weren't since a number of old pagan faiths involved sex as part of rituals. Considering the probably region and the faiths there of back then, christian denominations would not have been factored. Sop it would be old pre-non christian faiths that the priestess came from.

Well, being the Temen-ni-gru's location looks like an European city, the priestess was probably a Roman one, and the fact she fought alongside Sparda for a good cause, makes me believe she was part of a pure faith, thus, she was a virgin.

It's what my logic points out, but It's total speculation, except the location of Temen-ni-gru, built by the Demon Clan to worship demons, which carries a distinct European style.
 
As I recall the tower was in the same city as Dante's devil hunting shop. Which means they were in "America"
 
Zato-OW;195067 said:
As I recall the tower was in the same city as Dante's devil hunting shop. Which means they were in "America"

Capcom has tried to make Dante look like he's American, but the attire of the game is 100% European.
 
Then how come in DMC1 they claim Dante lives in America? Honestly, they make it seem as if Dante lives in southern America(Not South America) with the desserts(or deserts) and cactus plants everywhere in the anime. I think they are only found on the western part of the world. I also think they "tried" to give the games a European look and feel.
 
Capcom says it's in America, so it's in America, sorry naysayers. Architecture and attire style are not a location make, since the US gets a lot of cultural bleed. Where do you think most of our fashions and building deisgn came from?

Ironically enough, while the shop is in America, in DMC1, 2 and 4, Dante goes anywhere anywhere BUT. Mallet Island is mist likely in Spain, Dunmary from DMC2 is probably in France or Italy, and Fortuna...Italy, There is no question it's an island in Italy. From the names to the design, hell the culture. Fortuna is a DMC analogue of the Vatican.

Oh, and the Tower originated in the Demon World, recall. And it's design was actually based around the most famous of ancient towers...Babel. In theory, it could show up wherever it was summoned to rise up once the seals broke.


PLus, the name "Kalina-Ann" as Lady's mother suggests southern US roots, as does Dante's DMC4 look...
 
Dante Redgrave;195085 said:
Capcom says it's in America, so it's in America, sorry naysayers. Architecture and attire style are not a location make, since the US gets a lot of cultural bleed. Where do you think most of our fashions and building deisgn came from?

Ironically enough, while the shop is in America, in DMC1, 2 and 4, Dante goes anywhere anywhere BUT. Mallet Island is mist likely in Spain, Dunmary from DMC2 is probably in France or Italy, and Fortuna...Italy, There is no question it's an island in Italy. From the names to the design, hell the culture. Fortuna is a DMC analogue of the Vatican.

Oh, and the Tower originated in the Demon World, recall. And it's design was actually based around the most famous of ancient towers...Babel. In theory, it could show up wherever it was summoned to rise up once the seals broke.


PLus, the name "Kalina-Ann" as Lady's mother suggests southern US roots, as does Dante's DMC4 look...

Oh how could I forget that Dante looks like a cowboy in DMC4?