Nero and Sparda

[Sparda™]

"expelled"? You mean accepted? Because expelled just sound... bad.

The theory has not been accepted. It has been expelled, meaning It is not a theory at all.

 

[Vergil'sBitch]

I really don't believe that Nero is directly related to the twins, as i have read that Capcom have said this.
I think the books are just a sideline to the story. Surely what matters is what Capcom put into the games. Only that stuff can be classed as truly official and canon.

 

[Dante Redgrave]

Things that are definitely canon

Games(Primary canon)
Novels, Manga, Anime(Secondary canon except where directly contradicting to the games, like Deadly Fortune does in SPADES).

The anime is canon, Capcom has said so, and they stringently oversaw the writing and production of the anime. I got to talk to both the series and animation directors two years ago at Nan Desu Kan in 2007, they noted how closely Capcom watched everything to make sure it did not conflict.

The DMC1 and 2 novels are canon in terms of information give on Dante. DMC3 has not regulated them to "non-canon", but to Out of Continuity status. Canon means official information, Out of Continuity means they are canon, but the events are not applicable as done. Meaning that those events did not happen as depicted in the novels, but the information still applies; Dante went by the name Tony Redgrave in his youth, he did forget for a time who he was, no doubt to the severe trauma of watching his mother being murdered in front of him, Vergil did delve deeper into the Demon World, and so forth.

Manga. Yeah, the artist quit, causing the third volume to be canceled. But the two volumes released are still canon and in continuity.

Deadly Fortune...oh dear GOD Bingo, the mess your little bruised ego brought us. As far as can be seen, the information that does not directly conflict with DMC4 itself can be taken as canon, such as how Nero was taken in by Credo and Kyrie's family, his upbringing, and the like. The whole "hints" of his parentage by Vergil, however, and the blatant retcon to his age, are NOT, as are the outright rewriting of history done in the key events such as the battles with the Demon bosses. IN the case of something that was written after the fact and goes out of it's way to go against the game, Deadly Fortune is at best to be segmented into what can be taken as canon, and what is just Bingo doing his own thing.

Rail; You seem so adamant on trying to say that Nero is just some random guy who happened to get demonic power by one accident or another, and keep trying to justify it, when the game's own words say otherwise. DMC is about the Sparda bloodlines. Nero is part of the bloodline, or is the reincarnation of Sparda himself. I'm not seeing how making him some random normal guy makes it stay the story of a family fighting against hell...

 

[Vergil'sBitch]

Dmc is about Sparda's Bloodline... How does that explain Lucia?

 

[Railazel]

Things that are definitely canon

Games(Primary canon)
Novels, Manga, Anime(Secondary canon except where directly contradicting to the games, like Deadly Fortune does in SPADES).

The anime is canon, Capcom has said so, and they stringently oversaw the writing and production of the anime. I got to talk to both the series and animation directors two years ago at Nan Desu Kan in 2007, they noted how closely Capcom watched everything to make sure it did not conflict.

The DMC1 and 2 novels are canon in terms of information give on Dante. DMC3 has not regulated them to "non-canon", but to Out of Continuity status. Canon means official information, Out of Continuity means they are canon, but the events are not applicable as done. Meaning that those events did not happen as depicted in the novels, but the information still applies; Dante went by the name Tony Redgrave in his youth, he did forget for a time who he was, no doubt to the severe trauma of watching his mother being murdered in front of him, Vergil did delve deeper into the Demon World, and so forth.

Manga. Yeah, the artist quit, causing the third volume to be canceled. But the two volumes released are still canon and in continuity.

Deadly Fortune...oh dear GOD Bingo, the mess your little bruised ego brought us. As far as can be seen, the information that does not directly conflict with DMC4 itself can be taken as canon, such as how Nero was taken in by Credo and Kyrie's family, his upbringing, and the like. The whole "hints" of his parentage by Vergil, however, and the blatant retcon to his age, are NOT, as are the outright rewriting of history done in the key events such as the battles with the Demon bosses. IN the case of something that was written after the fact and goes out of it's way to go against the game, Deadly Fortune is at best to be segmented into what can be taken as canon, and what is just Bingo doing his own thing.

What's the point of putting all this here? I know that stuff is canon and that's well and good.

Rail; You seem so adamant on trying to say that Nero is just some random guy who happened to get demonic power by one accident or another, and keep trying to justify it, when the game's own words say otherwise. DMC is about the Sparda bloodlines. Nero is part of the bloodline, or is the reincarnation of Sparda himself. I'm not seeing how making him some random normal guy makes it stay the story of a family fighting against hell...

1) Take the L out, its Ry-la-zel, not Rail-a-zel.

2) I'm not denying that he doesn't have Sparda's blood in him, in fact I'm promoting it. I say that Nero does Sparda's blood. But I can't really say that he's a direct relative and there are a few reasons why:

A) He just got his power out of the blue. Seriously, he just had a normal day (whatever is normal for Nero) and all of sudden his arm goes "suped- up super light bulb mode" and he hears a voice inside his head... in the words of the great Ninja Ninja, "This is some F-ed up crap right here!"

B) May also note that he's the only guy who isn't a demon? Seriously, the descendant of an infamous demon and he's the only one that does change. Don't know what I'm talking about? Casper with a sword grows out of his arm and that's it. No horns, no change in flesh, no anything! He doesn't change at all and a specter flies over his head. And you expect me to believe that he's Sparda's descendant?
​

With those two facts in mind (unprofessionally written but I don't care), I really can deny that he's a direct descendant of Sparda. I won't deny him having Sparda's blood, but he just can't be Sparda's descendant.

 

[Sparda™]

Those points were very well put, DR.

 

[Sparda™]

Dmc is about Sparda's Bloodline... How does that explain Lucia?

What about Lady, Trish, Kyrie and so on?

Lucia was a fabricated demon by Arius, nothing more, nothing less.

EDIT: Oops, sorry for the double post...

 

[Dante Redgrave]

Originally, DMC was going to be about a new hero every game. Dante's surprising popularity changed that. Lucia was going to be the star of DMC2, but then they had to add Dante in late in pre-production because he suddenly became the star of the series. Thus, the revision in the aftermath of Dante's sudden popularity changed the theme from "awesome Demon hunting heroes" to "badass lineage of this traitor to Hell".

All those listed are secondary characters, the leads of DMC since Dante was placed front and foremost in the ps2 trilogy are all of the blood of Sparda; Dante, Vergil, Nero...and one can argue Lady is possibly a descendant as well. She is stronger and more resilient than the normal human, after all.

Also, you cannot argue that Nero is not a descendant of Sparda. Capcom has said it, the fact that Yamato was healed by his very awakening says it. Everything said about Nero states he is descended from Sparda. The fact that he doesn't have a full out demon form...YET...is a sign of diluted bloodline, or a n evolution towards that state. His arm didn't just "poof" into full Bringer form, it grew and evolved over time since it first began to change.

oh, and your name is spelt here as Railazel. That would be why I used "Rail". The reason for my "introduction to DMC canon 101" is because people keep trying to include some things as canon, but exclude others just because they don't like them, and the subject of what counts and what doesn't came up.

 

[Sparda™]

All those listed are secondary characters, the leads of DMC since Dante was placed front and foremost in the ps2 trilogy are all of the blood of Sparda; Dante, Vergil, Nero...and one can argue Lady is possibly a descendant as well. She is stronger and more resilient than the normal human, after all.

Lady is a descendant of the priestess Mary, which could have been in love with Sparda 2000 years ago when sealing the Temen-ni-gru...Speculating, I know.

Also, you cannot argue that Nero is not a descendant of Sparda. Capcom has said it, the fact that Yamato was healed by his very awakening says it. Everything said about Nero states he is descended from Sparda. The fact that he doesn't have a full out demon form...YET...is a sign of diluted bloodline, or a n evolution towards that state. His arm didn't just "poof" into full Bringer form, it grew and evolved over time since it first began to change.

A descendant also means a son. The word descendant doesn't give too much information, but hints at everything.

Like Nero's Bringer evolved, his Devil Trigger abilities will too, I believe.

 

[Dante Redgrave]

Lady/Mary Arkham's priestess ancestor was never named, were did you get her name was Mary? Anyway, yeah, it's speculation, but it's solid, since Sparda had to sacrificed things precious to him to seal the Tower.

And while descendant can mean simply a child of, in this instance, it's made pretty clear that Nero is not a "lost third son". Dante would remember if he and Vergil had a little brother, and he would have mentioned something. Since Nero is roughly ten years younger than the twins...that would mean if he's not a child of Eva, Nero would have been from another woman, meaning Sparda had to be sleeping around for that to work, and I don't really see the LDK doing that. He may be a demon, but I got the impression Sparda was damned loyal to Eva.

Ergo, Nero is descended from another bloodline Sparda began before he met Eva. Mind you...I'm still holding that he's Sparda himself, the timing of his age and logically assumed birth is way to fine to be just coincidence.

 

[Sparda™]

Lady/Mary Arkham's priestess ancestor was never named, were did you get her name was Mary? Anyway, yeah, it's speculation, but it's solid, since Sparda had to sacrificed things precious to him to seal the Tower.

Lady/Mary was named from the priestess by Arkham, thus the priestess' name is Mary. Thought you knew that info. He was a demonologist who sacrificed his wife to become a demon after all.

And while descendant can mean simply a child of, in this instance, it's made pretty clear that Nero is not a "lost third son". Dante would remember if he and Vergil had a little brother, and he would have mentioned something. Since Nero is roughly ten years younger than the twins...that would mean if he's not a child of Eva, Nero would have been from another woman, meaning Sparda had to be sleeping around for that to work, and I don't really see the LDK doing that. He may be a demon, but I got the impression Sparda was damned loyal to Eva.

Well, Dante felt a familiar presence when facing Nero. That can also be left to speculate. Sparda was really damned loyal to Eva, but she died when the twins were aged 9, If I'm not mistaken. That means Nero's birth could have been done before her death. Sparda disappeared after.

Mind you...I'm still holding that he's Sparda himself, the timing of his age and logically assumed birth is way to fine to be just coincidence.

I've been holding that theory for too long myself, but this third son thing, personally speaking, could be plausible. There are too much plotholes about the twins' childhood and the time Sparda and Eva lived together.

 

[Dante Redgrave]

...WHERE is it said that Arkham named his daughter for her ancestor? THat's what I wann'a know. DMC3 does not say it, Volume 3of the manga never happened, and it's not in the anime. That is my question. Where is this said in canon?

And...you have your dates mixed up. Sparda died BEFORE Eva was murdered which was when they were 8, that's how she even died in the first place. It's why Dante hated his father for a time, as well as why Vergil blames his own human side and Sparda; he wasn't there to save them because he'd already vanished/died. We still don't know who actually killed Sparda, but likely not Mundus's forces, that was why they killed Eva; petty revenge and insult to Sparda's memory.

I'm personally of the opinion that Sparda was ironically killed by the other side. No, not the humans. Like they could stand a chance. I mean backstabbed by factions in Heaven. Let's face it. He wouldn't have many friends on that side just because of the fact he is a demon...

 

[The crazy demon]

Well just for seeing redgrabe explaniacion the heaven maybe didnt wanted a demon as the savior of the humans and destroyer of the demons?

 

[Zato-OW]

I thought Lady was named after her mother? NVM, I'm thinking of something else.

 

[Dante Redgrave]

Nah, her rocket launcher was named for her mother, Kalina-Ann. I really would like to know where this info of "She was named for the priestess" came from, because I have both novels, all four games, the entire anime, and have NEVER seen or heard of this info before.

 

[Zato-OW]

Nah, her rocket launcher was named for her mother, Kalina-Ann. I really would like to know where this info of "She was named for the priestess" came from, because I have both novels, all four games, the entire anime, and have NEVER seen or heard of this info before.

I never hear of that before either but Kalina-Ann is what I was thinking off. Just got it mixed up.

 

[Railazel]

You know, after re-watching some old cutscenes, I am sure that what I am saying is true. Nero said, after obtaining his new Devil Trigger, "From that day forth... my arm changed... and a voice echoed... 'Power... Give me more power...'" So, when I say that the arm suddenly changed, I'm sure I'm right. It is evolving like you said; the more items Nero finds, the stronger the arm gets. But still, that doesn't change the fact that it suddenly changed, which differs greatly from how Dante and Vergil's powers were awakened. Second throughout the cutscenes that I rewatched, I noticed that Agnus was hiding something. First was his fear of Nero finding his lab. Why was he so afraid? Its not like there's anything he should... well, except for the whole entire demon thing, but that still shouldn't be a matter if he wasn't planning on kiling him. Second, why would he kill Nero? Nero was just passing through, what does he have to hide? Third, why was he so amazed when he saw Nero's arm? He's heard the rumours, so why be amazed. I mean, an obsession with studying is okay, but being completely baffled is another. Another thing, is the fact that Agnus keeps grabbing random demons and putting their souls into armor and crap and... DING! DING! DING! My point proven right there. Agnus took some random demon and infused its soul with Nero. Or, to go along the lines of Sparda's Blood, They took Yamato, experimented with it, found a blood sample on it, and infused that sample into Nero. So in a sense, Nero is more of a clone than an actual relative.

Oh and about Lady's name, Arkham kept calling Lady "Mary" and referred to her as his daughter. He said he named her after the priestess who helped Sparda seal up the tower. As for the whole Kalina- Ann thing, its on the launcher, you have to read the Weapon files in order to find that out.

 

[Sparda™]

Dante Redgrave, why so puzzled about the origin of Lady's/Mary's name?

Arkham named her like the priestess, because he knew she was her descendant, and since a virgin's blood was vital in acquiring the unlocking of Temen-ni-gru, he lured her and then used her Kalina Ann's bayonet to spread the blood on the sacrificial floor.

About Nero being an experiment...

The fact Nero's awakening forged back Yamato, means that he's more than just an experiment - he's a descendant of Sparda.

And...you have your dates mixed up. Sparda died BEFORE Eva was murdered which was when they were 8, that's how she even died in the first place. It's why Dante hated his father for a time, as well as why Vergil blames his own human side and Sparda; he wasn't there to save them because he'd already vanished/died. We still don't know who actually killed Sparda, but likely not Mundus's forces, that was why they killed Eva; petty revenge and insult to Sparda's memory.

Sparda's not dead, disappeared. There's no proof of him being dead. I already know Eva died after Sparda disappeared. But Nero's supposed birth, could have happened in the period before Sparda disappeared - that's all I'm hinting.

I'm personally of the opinion that Sparda was ironically killed by the other side. No, not the humans. Like they could stand a chance. I mean backstabbed by factions in Heaven. Let's face it. He wouldn't have many friends on that side just because of the fact he is a demon...

There's no sign of celestial beings in the Devil May Cry universe. Demons disguised as angelic creatures, yeah, but not original heavenly beings.

 

[Darth Angelo]

Sparda's not dead, disappeared. There's no proof of him being dead. I already know Eva died after Sparda disappeared. But Nero's supposed birth, could have happened in the period before Sparda disappeared - that's all I'm hinting.

Thats only if you believe that the first game has been taken out of the series completely because of a contradiction as one of the first things that DMC1 tells us is that Sparda did eventually die. The entire thing is pretty much built around that prologue. It seems like a pretty massive thing to change as the series is still heavily based on the DMC1 story.

 

[Sparda™]

Thats only if you believe that the first game has been taken out of the series completely because of a contradiction as one of the first things that DMC1 tells us is that Sparda did eventually die. The entire thing is pretty much built around that prologue. It seems like a pretty massive thing to change as the series is still heavily based on the DMC1 story.

The story is based on the first game in chronological order - DMC3.