Nero and Sparda

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Dante Redgrave;195259 said:
Okay, let's put it in Layman's terms. He IS a descendant of Sparda, the game SAYS so. He would not be able to use Yamato otherwise. Having a blood transfusion does NOT imbue him that power or make him a member of the blood of Sparda. You just keep wanting to insist he's just some normal human, when it's made clear he's never been a normal human.

He is most likely descended from some other previous child of Sparda, which considering the number of generations involved, YES, would make him not DIRECTLY related to the twins. Why? Directly related would mean either the child to one of them, or being their sibling or direct cousin. If anything, they are extremely distant uncles, several generations removed. Thus, he IS a descendant of Sparda, and he's not immediate family to the Twins.

Do you know nothing of genetics and basic geneology?
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Yes, I do, and what you are saying is still contrary to what you are trying to say. Now, I really don't get your concept of a family tree because here is mine:

Unkown child- 2,000 years worth of children- Nero
/
Sparda-Dante
\
Vergil
(This is what my image of the family tree looks like based on what you are saying. If you are saying that Nero is directly descended from Sparda, he is still directly related to Dante and Vergil as half brothers.)

Sparda's Relative- unknown children, probably including Nero
|
Sparda's Relative- unknown children, probably including Nero
|
Sparda- Dante and Vergil

(This is seemingly something that you are trying to say as well. With this, you can see that in order for the Twins to not be directly related to Nero, Nero has been directly descended from another relative of Sparda, but not Sparda himself. This still goes along the lines of having Sparda's blood because Sparda's blood would be the same as his relatives, and would also explain the difference and changes in demon powers.)

By the way, I'm not insisting that he's a normal human, I just don't think he fits right as a "descendent of Sparda."
 
You are twisting words and dodging the point. When they said not directly related, they meant immediate family. Nero is not an immediate relative of the Twins, he's like a very very VERY distant cousin or nephew at best. He is confirmed a Descendant of Sparda. WORD OF GOD, STATED BY THE GAME. Get over it, he's in the bloodline, it is inarguable.

BTW, trying to push him off as a descendant of a "relative" of Sparda's basically makes his connection toe Sparda meaningless. Yamato was a Blade forged by Sparda himself, one of his own swords. It only really responds to someone with his bloodline.

And yes, by insisting on the idea that he's someone the Order experimented on and transfused with Sparda's blood, you are saying he's just some normal guy who happens to be used as a guinea pig. The game says otherwise, the theory was expelled and very much disproven already.
 
Why is it difficult to understand that Nero is descendant to Sparda. He can be a descendant without being directly related to Dante and Vergil.

A relative and descendant are different. A relative is a brother, sister, mom, dad, auntie, uncle.
A descendant comes from. So Nero comes from the blood line of Sparda but isn't related to the twins.

In my DMC folder somewhere i have a thing of what Capcom said about Nero not being directly related to the twins. I'll find it and when i do... i'll post it.
 
Okay, Let me start by showing you what a family is. I shall go further with the basic structure of a family tree.

When they said not directly related, they meant immediate family
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Being part of their immediate family does not change anything. Basing my assumptions on the structure of a family tree, Sparda is still Nero's direct ancestor by twelve or so generations apart and, through Sparda, he is directly related to the twins by blood as their half- nephew by eleven or so generations apart.

Having a blood transfusion does NOT imbue him that power or make him a member of the blood of Sparda
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There are four possibilities as to why Yamato reacted to Nero: Blood Relation to Sparda, Blood Transfusion, Genetic Engineering, Soul Reconstruction, and Devil Bringer Projection.

  • Blood Tranfusion- Transfusing your blood with another person gives that person your blood. Thus, Dante's (possibly Vergil's) blood that was left on the Yamato blade was probably tranfused into Nero's blood. The Yamato, detecting Nero's diluted blood, reacted to him and was reconstructed itself for his use.
  • Genetic Engineering- its possible that they took Dante's or Vergil's blood that was left from the blade, took their genetics, and added them onto Nero's genetics which changed his physical attributes and strengths completely.
  • Soul Reconstruction- It is said in the game that the order takes the souls of demons and reconstructs them for their use. Since we don't know what happened to Vergil after his supposed death, I can assume that his soul, along with the Yamato, was taken by the order and reconstructed and fused within Nero or at least within his arm.
  • The Devil Bringer Project- We don't know how it came to be, its purpose, or
    even its abilities. So it is possible that it might have been a weapon constructed by the Order for its soldiers. However, the Order must have thought the project had failed and any knowledge of it was probably lost until it appeared.
  • Blood Relation to Sparda- Pretty much what I've been saying throughout this post.

Three out of five of the listed above still keeps the "having the blood of Sparda" requirement intact and with all those possibilities considered, I hold by my theory. But for now, I'll dispose of my theory until later.



He is most likely descended from some other previous child of Sparda, which considering the number of generations involved, YES, would make him not DIRECTLY related to the twins
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Now back to this. No matter how many generations pass, if Nero is descended from Sparda, he is still directly related from Dante and Vergil.

The only thing now is to wait for VB to pull her folder. Now, I don't want her typing it herself, I want the actual thing.
 
Woo! I never realized a hard drive could store so much Cr@p!!!

This was originally taken from Devil's Chapel website a few years ago. I'm gonna get in contact with the admin of that site for some 'back-up'
This was originally published in a magazine called Game Informer (I wouldn't know, it's not in my part of the world.)

Don't shoot me guys... plz... iz only the messenger!

Devil May Cry 4
As of 9.20.06: Information about Devil May Cry 4 is finally spreading across both Japanaese and English media. Including October's issue of Game Informer, which features Nero (the new main character) on the front. Yes, you read right, Dante is NO longer the main protagonist for the forth installment of DMC. Though Dante WILL make a major appearance in the game, the producer (Kobayashi) has even hinted that Vergil will play some sort of role in the game. Kobayashi has also CONFIRMED in Game Informer that the new character, Nero, IS NOT related to Dante, Vergil or Sparda. They have also ensured that both new and old fans of the game will both be equally happy with the final result.
The game will be placed on an island called Fortuna, where Nero fights along side a group of crusaders called the Order of the Sword. They are said to worship Sparda and fight under his name, but something about them doesn't settle well with Dante, since he breaks into their temple and starts killing off members. Nero and Dante fight and I'm guessing the game begins with Nero chasing after him. It hasn't been confirmed, but it's likely Dante hasn't gone evil, so Nero might end up teaming up with Dante later on. If you want more details, you'll have to buy the October issue of Game Informer, since I'm trying to keep this a short summary
 
So, that means that Nero isn't related to the Sparda family tree at all. Am I REALLY the only fan on this forum who doesn't really care? If he's related to Sparda, fine. If he's a genetic experiment, fine. If his father is this other, possibly stronger demon, that's even better.
 
Kobiyashi has said a lot of things that end up being overruled. I remember that statement myself, and it ended up being, as verified by the game, Nero is descended from Sparda. They also were saying Vergil would have a major role in the game. He got a one line mention in the end.


And NO, a blood transfusion of the kind you say, Rai, would not work. It's not even POSSIBLE to do a blood transfusion from crusted and dead blood like that. No matter how you slice it, using Yamato as the "stained source" doesn't work. And transfusions do not alter one's bloodline, so that also is debunked.

Also, family tree. You know, let's rework that phrasing, since "direct" is being taken in multiple ways. Nero is not IMMEDIATELY related to the Twins...nor obviously to Sparda. There's a several generations gap. That eliminates the confusion. And you know, even saying directly, you can say one has a direct descent, and still have no direct relation to someone else also descended from the same person. There is a common ancestor, but not a direct relation after a number of generations. I know a couple people who can claim, and can back it up, descent from William Wallace. But they're not directly related to each other since that was generations of family changes and interbreeding of bloodlines.
 
Dante Redgrave:
Is it a bit like saying I'm British?
Although I'm not proper British because of the races of ppl that have invaded the uk in the past. (Romans, Noords, French etc?)
My blood wouldn't be pure british?
(If that makes sense)

What you're trying to say is that Nero is indirectly related to Sparda because of the generation gap (ppl that have 'invaded' the bloodline)? Like everyone in the UK could be indirectly related to the races that have invaded the country.

I mean, a descendant born after a gap of a generation (Nero and Sparda) aren't directly family related?

(Apologies if this really isn't making sense)
 
British is more a nationality and a regional labeling, so that's different. It's like when we in the US call ourselves Americans, even though most of the population's bloodlines descended from outside the original native populace. What I'm saying is that since there's several generations interbreeding from other families Nero is separated from that kind of direct relation to the Twins that would be implied by being a cousin or such. When most people say "direction relation", it tends to mean "immediate family", not "common ancestor".

And yes, on the reincarnation matter, that's exactly why I hold that belief. Besides, would make sense for Sparda to reborn as one of his own descendents
 
For now, I stand with DR on the reincarnation theory. That seems like the most viable option, and would explain how the Yamato, a sword forged by Sparda himself, was fixed only by Nero's willpower.
 
Sparda reincarnation through random child is my guess.That would explain the Devil Bringer and the absence of a full/proper Devil Trigger.And the whole Yamato bussiness.
 
Devil Bane;195451 said:
Sparda reincarnation through random child is my guess.That would explain the Devil Bringer and the absence of a full/proper Devil Trigger.And the whole Yamato bussiness.
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Exactly. This is exactly what I'm talking about.
 
Dante Redgrave;195418 said:
Kobiyashi has said a lot of things that end up being overruled. I remember that statement myself, and it ended up being, as verified by the game, Nero is descended from Sparda. They also were saying Vergil would have a major role in the game. He got a one line mention in the end.


And NO, a blood transfusion of the kind you say, Rai, would not work. It's not even POSSIBLE to do a blood transfusion from crusted and dead blood like that. No matter how you slice it, using Yamato as the "stained source" doesn't work. And transfusions do not alter one's bloodline, so that also is debunked.

Also, family tree. You know, let's rework that phrasing, since "direct" is being taken in multiple ways. Nero is not IMMEDIATELY related to the Twins...nor obviously to Sparda. There's a several generations gap. That eliminates the confusion. And you know, even saying directly, you can say one has a direct descent, and still have no direct relation to someone else also descended from the same person. There is a common ancestor, but not a direct relation after a number of generations. I know a couple people who can claim, and can back it up, descent from William Wallace. But they're not directly related to each other since that was generations of family changes and interbreeding of bloodlines.
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I shall restate "Blood of Sparda." Yes, blood transfusions woudld work because of the logic and storyline of the game. First, they can take the souls of demons and manipulate them into... whatever, so considering that kind of technology and magic, I wouldn't put it past them to revive any old blood from the Yamato blade, espcecially since they did experiments on that as well. Second, Blood Transfusions gives the blood of another person, so yes, your blood is technically altered since it's mixed in with another kind of blood (this is called a solution or homogeneous mixture for those of us who are science geeks). As for the whole bloodline thing, that doesn't matter to Yamato, all you need is to have the blood of Sparda. Now I shall say something, IF YOU HAVE THE BLOOD OF SOMEONE, NO MATTER WHO IS IN YOUR FAMILY, YOU ARE DIRECTLY RELATED TO THAT PERSON! Gosh... Generation Gap or not, Sparda is still Nero's ancestor which means that he is still directly related to the twins. Besides, my point is proven, VB's resources stated that Nero is not related to Sparda nor the twins, and Redgrave, you have failed to give us the source of which states that Nero is the descendant of Sparda, even after I asked you too. So, I'll ask again, where in the game does it state that he is the descendent of Sparda?

EDIT: Truthfully, the whole "Sparda's Incarnation" theory sounds more logical at this point, but I'm still sticking with I'm saying.
 
So clearly you can't be assed to go replay the cinemas of the game yourself, either via the game's, replay feature or a search on youtube... Lazy lazy lazy, and unwilling to concede.

Sanctus can be quoted three times stating that Nero is of the blood of Sparda, a descendant of sparda. and that the Savior requires on of Sparda's bloodline to friggin' activate. NOt "Oh, he's got some trace of blood in his veins, but being a member of the bloodline. That means the FAMILY, not he's got something put in him.

NO, a blood transfusion does NOT alter who your bloodline is, it never WILL. The mixture of blood happens, but not to the level you are trying to grasp at. YOu're trying to say a blood transplant alters you on a vast genetic level, when it does NOT. YOu DO know that any genetic material in that transplanted blood gets absorbed and over written by the DNA of the reciever, yes? It does not make some weird hybrid genetic structure.

Yamato doesn't respond to "Oh, he's got some blood from one of the boys transplanted in him, that's enough to REPAIR ME." NO. The swords do NOT respond on the physical level even, they respond on a SPIRITUAL level. We saw that with Rebellion in both the game AND the Manga. in the Manga, Rebellion awake without even touching Dante's blood. It went dormant again, yes, but that was to match with DMC3. We saw that with Yamato in DMC4. Nero's soul ALONE heal/repair and revive Yamato, NOT HIS BLOOD.

Ergo, "blood transplant" argument you have is voided. Physical blood had nothing to do with it. Hell, you try and argue that it's "logical" to say Dante is over 2000 years old, when all material says he's less than half a century old. if he were over 2k years old? Why is he only in modern times awakening his demon power, at a developer stated age of 19?
 
DreadnoughtDT;195465 said:
Exactly. This is exactly what I'm talking about.
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Whoops.Sorry didn't notice the post.[Inb4l4m3excoos3z!]

Seriously though.Didn't notice it.I left the whole quick reply window,forgetting to paste the answer,only to remember 2hours later.An i have not reurned to the forum since.
 
Devil Bane;195657 said:
Whoops.Sorry didn't notice the post.[Inb4l4m3excoos3z!]

Seriously though.Didn't notice it.I left the whole quick reply window,forgetting to paste the answer,only to remember 2hours later.An i have not reurned to the forum since.
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I wasn't mad at you. I was just agreeing. Back on topic, however. Railazel, your theory's are just completely unfounded and go against everything modern science stands for. Having a simple blood transfusion does NOT imbue crazy powers as the comics and other media might have you believe. Besides, I don't think the crusted up blood that may have been on Yamato OR Rebellion was eligible for transfusion. And then you go so far as to state that Dante is 2000+ years old?! Then why is he just now starting to kill demons at the creator specified age of 15-16? (I forgot which.) I know I just basically rehashed everything Dante Redgrave said, but I'm trying to drive it into your thick skull that Nero is either A: A reincarnation of Sparda or B: A third son that was abandoned at a young age for fear of his power, and Dante and Vergil never knew. So far, I'm sticking with A.
 
^Sorry.Misunderstanding on my part.Glad we agree. BUT : BACK ON TOPIC MODE 2

Again i re-enforce the whole A theory,but i have to say that there are many things we don't know how they work at the DMC universe.One of them is blood transfusion with demon blood.I'm not saying i go with this theory,but since Kobayashi still keeps us in the dark...and the number of inacuracies that appear on his watch are many...wonder what his doing...
 
Dante Redgrave;195629 said:
So clearly you can't be assed to go replay the cinemas of the game yourself, either via the game's, replay feature or a search on youtube... Lazy lazy lazy, and unwilling to concede.

Sanctus can be quoted three times stating that Nero is of the blood of Sparda, a descendant of sparda. and that the Savior requires on of Sparda's bloodline to friggin' activate. NOt "Oh, he's got some trace of blood in his veins, but being a member of the bloodline. That means the FAMILY, not he's got something put in him.

NO, a blood transfusion does NOT alter who your bloodline is, it never WILL. The mixture of blood happens, but not to the level you are trying to grasp at. YOu're trying to say a blood transplant alters you on a vast genetic level, when it does NOT. YOu DO know that any genetic material in that transplanted blood gets absorbed and over written by the DNA of the reciever, yes? It does not make some weird hybrid genetic structure.

Yamato doesn't respond to "Oh, he's got some blood from one of the boys transplanted in him, that's enough to REPAIR ME." NO. The swords do NOT respond on the physical level even, they respond on a SPIRITUAL level. We saw that with Rebellion in both the game AND the Manga. in the Manga, Rebellion awake without even touching Dante's blood. It went dormant again, yes, but that was to match with DMC3. We saw that with Yamato in DMC4. Nero's soul ALONE heal/repair and revive Yamato, NOT HIS BLOOD.

Ergo, "blood transplant" argument you have is voided. Physical blood had nothing to do with it. Hell, you try and argue that it's "logical" to say Dante is over 2000 years old, when all material says he's less than half a century old. if he were over 2k years old? Why is he only in modern times awakening his demon power, at a developer stated age of 19?
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Bolded Paragraph 1) You fail to give me the proof that I asked for, thus my point is still valid.

Bolded Paragraph 2) Where? I'm asking you to show me where? If you can't my point is still valid.

Bolded Paragraph 3) I'm not saying that his bloodline is altered, I'm saying that he contains the blood of Sparda. Thus, his blood, not his bloodline, is altered and he still contains the blood of Sparda.

Bolded Paragraph 4) Spiritual Level? Okay, I can still say that Vergil's soul was probably stuck inside Nero's arm through experimentation.

Bolded Paragraph 5) Does it matter? I don't care about Dante's age, what I said was a random guess, I even said that it was just a guess. Besides, that does not have anything to do with this argument, so that point is invalid.

Now, I'll ask you one last time, and if you can't provide me with this request, I can state my point as truth. Where in the game does it state that Nero is the descendant of Sparda? Again, if you can't provide me with this, I can state my point as truth and that Nero is not the descendant of Sparda.
 
You know what you guys? Why don't we all just STFU about it and quit yelling at each other until DMC 5 is released or some answers are given. I REALLY think this thread is going nowhere fast, so why don't we all just quit grinding on each others nerves, okay?
 
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