Majin? or Sparda?

[Sparda™]

^ We're talking about Sparda in around 1st century AD. He surely was powerful, but he sealed a large amount of his energy in the Force Edge. I think you forgot that.

And that demon who was Sparda's rival, in DMC2, was meant when Sparda lived in the demon world, before even thinking of protecting human kind.

Sparda lived in the human world 2000 years, following from the seal he made with his own share of powers, a large sum.

But, in the end, It wouldn't make sense If Sparda would have killed all those demons. We wouldn't have Dante as the main character, get It?

 

[Zato-OW]

But you don't get it. If Sparda>>>>Dante then why is Dante cleaning up after him and with ease? I'm just pointing out Dante's strength. This is why I think Dante is more powerful then the Human fleshed Sparda. Dante is just proving his self too much. Now ok I can see if you say the Devil Sparda was stronger then Dante then ill be like "yeah your right" but Dante is in the same league as the Human formed Sparda.

Also you should really question Sparda motives even if he had the power to kill those Demons then why didn't he? In the story prospective he wouldn't have known that the events involving Dante would've happened.

Btw

He must have been either weak from sealing his powers or just plain stupid not to destroy Argosax.

 

[Sparda™]

Until Sparda's past has been cleared up, assumption will stay like that.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

Sparda pwns... His strength is far superior to Dante and Vergil's...

And Sparda did care for humans... If he didn't, he wouldn't have had kids. He probably did intend to kill all the demons, but disappeared... As to which, nobody knows where he is. But he is still alive or something, hoping to return. I would like him to return.

 

[Zato-OW]

No one said he didn't care for humans. Capcom is making Sparda look like an idiot for not killing them. But then again they are making Dante look good at the same time. Huh?

 

[Sparda™]

He had reasons, maybe?! Unexplained, so yeah.

 

[Tony_Redgrave]

I saw two weird things around this debate so allow me to say a few things about them.

1)Zato you said that since Mundus is a Prince, then somebody must be the King and therefore better than Mundus.

Nope. If you read the DMC1 manual, you get this:

About 2000 years ago, according to legend, while snow was falling on a clear, freezing night on Earth, a fierce Devil Prince was born deep in the darkest pit of the netherworld.
Within a short time he gained his full powers and took over the Devil Throne. His first act as ruler of all devils was to declare himself emperor of the Devil Kingdom. His next feat was an invasion of the Human world. His plan was to conquer it and rule it as potentate over both the lower and upper realms.
But a powerful Devil-Knight known as Sparda took pity on humans for their brief, transient lives. Leading a rebel force, he defeated all the Devil ruler's armies and finally imprisoned the emperor in a sealed vault.
Having achieved his victory, Sparda abandoned the Devil Kingdom to live in the Human world. He married a human woman and soon fathered a half-devil, half-human son. But beware, mankind. After 2000 years, the cursed Devil Emperor will be released and will return to invade the Human world once again. Sparda's son must be our protector.

Proving that whoever was the ruler before Mundus, was weaker.

2) Somewhere, someone said that Dante killed Mundus, where Sparda only sealed him, thus proving that Dante>Sparda.

Not true. After we defeated Mundus in DMC1, Mundus promised to return and Dante responded that if Mundus does return, he'll have to beat Dante's son. Also in the video where that's happening we see this:
Dante is trapped in some sort of dungeon. Then, some kind of portal opens from the underworld allowing Mundus to come forth. When Dante Jackpot-ed Mundus, it looked (at least to me) that the bullets only sent Mundus back to where he opened that portal from, and did not actually kill him, but we cannot be sure about that.

About Sparda sealing everyting. Yeah the guy seals everything using everything. I mean, in every game we learn of a different seal that he made.
DMC1->Mundus/Portal to the Underworld that opens with Philosopher's Stone & Perfect Amulet.
DMC2->Argosax/Portal to the Underworld that opens with the Arcana.
DMC3->Temme-ni-gru which is a tunnel that links the demonic domain with the human world. Opens with the Perfect Amulet/Sparda's blood/The same blood as that priestess/Removal of the Force Edge.
DMC4->Hellgate in Fortuna. Opens with Yamato.

I mean what the hell?
Next time we will see that he even used Rebellion to seal something? It's nice that we see things about Sparda in every game but instead of making his actions more clear, they open new mysteries about him. And I also agree that most speculation about that is useless. On the other hand I don't think Capcom will bother creating a Sparda game/story/book/manga/whatever right now. They are focused in their new star, Nero and from what we saw in DMC4, instead of a nice story they want fanservice/graphics and gameplay. Oh well..

 

[Sparda™]

I also hate the fact that Sparda has been so obscure, and there's not actually a game dedicated to him, or a manga/anime/novel whatever...

 

[Zato-OW]

They said they wanted to keep him mysterious. That is why they haven't put out anything on him. But that is coming from a DMC3 interview so don't take it to truth.

Now why would Mundus be called a prince if hes the strongest(Not saying he isn't obviously he lost to Sparda). He would be considered the king. This is why i believed they changed his name from Satan to Mundus. Also I never said Dante killed Mundus(But if i did, I take it back.). Dante killed The Despair.

But back on a Sparda game. They have alot of history to cover and the place they should start the game(if they make one.) is right when Sparda rebelled and formed his own party. But can you really imagine Sparda's battle cries? Also story wise he will just look like another Dante just not as loud mouth. He will have no true challenges until Mundus.

 

[Sparda™]

^ Either way, Sparda >>>>> Dante.

 

[Zato-OW]

Ok, lol. Honestly I can't disagree or agree now that I think about it. Because we don't know enough about Sparda to go from except his actions that makes Dante look better then him.
EDIT*

I didn't mean Dante looks more better then Sparda as a hero what I meant is that he is looking cooler then Sparda as a Devil Hunter.

 

[Tony_Redgrave]

Let's be fair. The Sparda game is quite difficult to be made. First of all they need to create a whole new setting. Probably a whole new Devil Kingdom/World. Since in all Devil May Cry(s) we only get a glance of the Devil World in the last missions. But in a Sparda game, where the main characters lives in the Devil World (since it will probably be before Sparda defeated Mundus) they need a whole new world.

Second, they need to create a character who's serious, wise and more awesome than Dante/Vergil. Kinda hard, seeing that even their new character, Nero is a smartmouth. Also they need to tell more about the Devils. Sparda is a Dark Knight. Yeah, ok. Does that mean there's a whole bunch of knights like Sparda out there?

Third, I don't think the game would begin with Sparda having all the weapons from the beginning. He would probably have Force Edge (unless he finds it in the end, as his greatest weapon) or Yamato.
For the other two, since they are Devil Arms I'm guessing they were Devils before right? They need to create awesome and really powers Devils to show us what was Rebellion/Yamato before Sparda got them.

Fourth, we need Sparda to face adversaries which are strong like the last bosses of the other games. And we also need a real story between them, Sparda, and his decision to seal them rather than banish them.

Fifth. In the DMC1 manual Sparda was said to have his own troops. I'd like to know if these were generic soldiers with no character or promising Devils that were on a par with Mundus' elites - like Phandom and Griffon.

6th. More about how Sparda met Eva, and what happened to him afterwards.

7th. I'm guessing Sparda had allies in the human world. Since I don't think that priestess was killed by him or something, but voluntarily offered her blood. Remember also those guys from Devil May Cry 2. We need more about that sort. How did Sparda decided to help the humans?How did the humans were of any help to him?

8th. Sparda was way more powerful than Mundus. Isn't that weird? A mere knight being weaker, where Mundus immediately took the seat of the Emperor when he was born? Perhaps Sparda was granted that power? Perhaps he trained in some unspoken place? Surely if he was born with all that power he would be the emperor. Unless there was some other reason.

9th. The fact that Sparda turned against his demon brethren means he had reasons to do so. What where those reasons? Supposedly he was born and raised in the Devil World, so seeing an army of Devils devouring an army of humans would be like his every day activity. Since he had a rank of a soldier (unless this Dark Knight thing was a title given to him by the humans) he probably had managed victories for the Devils before which made him worthy of that rank.

10th. Except for all this, we need a game which would be quite hard. Dante goes to places that are peaceful and then Devils start coming out etc etc. Sparda is in the Devil World where everything is against him from the beginning. The 1st stages should be like the last ones from DMC1/DMC3. And as the game progresses they should get tougher. Also Sparda CAN'T have the same moves as Dante&Vergil. It would be logical to have them, but also boring since he would be something we've already seen before. He needs his own moves/maybe some other Devil Arms except the ones we know/Guns/Summoned Swords/Whatever ->Styles but NOT Dante's or Vergil's. We need new stuff remember?New taunts:lol: And stuff like that.

So if they try to make something like this it would take them forever. DMC4 did not have even half of that. I mean, they had a Dante pretty much already made with a few modifications. The story was written quite rashly given the result. The characters (besides Nero & Dante) where generic. Sanctus->Typical mad vilain.
Kyrie->Typical damsel in distress.
Agnus->Typical mad scientist.
Baal->Typical stupid bad guy.
Credo->Typical guy which changed sides when his loved one was used and ended up not doing anything.
Echidna->Typical stupid girl monster.
Berial->Typical DMC Boss. Recognizes Dante, says usual things to him etc.

And THAT took them 2 years. Imagine the Sparda game

PS: I don't hate DMC4, don't get me wrong.

 

[Keaton]

^Well said Tony, wheres your DMC5 Game Concept lol

Sadly, your right, a Sparda game, even a side game would need to completly overhaul what we have seen in DMC so far - it would be awesome, but regrettably I don't see it happening yet...maybe we will get the Sparda Costume back in DMC5 with a few new styles? Perhaps.

Atm though to be honest, I kinda hope we never know....leave Sparda as a mystery and the speculation as speculation, we have Nero to theorize over now and Sparda has ALWAYS been a huge plot mechinism for the series, if he is suddenly brought into the limelight then how will it change our views on the series, as fans? What if the reality of Sparda doesn't live up to the legend?

 

[Sparda™]

What still amazes me is the fact that after Arkham lifted the seal Sparda put on the Demon World, wouldn't that mean that demons would have an easy way out of the Underworld.

Even though in Devil May Cry 4, It is revealed the 'true hell gate' was in Fortuna and Sparda used the Yamato to seal It.

It may seem strange why the Dark Knight kept sealing demonic doors, towers or artifacts, but surely there's a logic explanation for this.

 

[Keaton]

What still amazes me is the fact that after Arkham lifted the seal Sparda put on the Demon World, wouldn't that mean that demons would have an easy way out of the Underworld.

I agree, tbh Dante has always been self-employed, which aside from the lowlife criminals etc he executes, he must have a steady flow of Supernatural enemies to take out also. Especially if you recall the text in the DMC1 Manual

But, as to what level of Demon activity can be noted - it must be substancial enough to give Dante substancial business...but not concentrated enough to warrant a consistant and populated knowlege within the public .

Again, as above, I hope this is anwsered in the next DMC, because it would certanly give the game some perspective

BoT, Dantes Majin form is very...generic, there is little colouring etc to make it stand out from say...Sparda's DT at a distance. Do you think virgils would be any different, or would it perhaps differ in power in the same way Dante and Virgil's style of battle are different?

 

[Sparda™]

Since Vergil and Dante are twins, their power is equal. At the point being, in DMC4, Vergil has the same power level as Dante, always If he's alive.

Dante's DT in DMC4, showed us he's no more dependent on Devil Arms to sustain his demonic form, but rather, his true devil form, therefore in the cut-scenes of DMC4, we don't see Dante using the DT in battle.

There's also one thing. Dante's devil form, as his powers arise, will near to that of his father Sparda. The Majin form bears a striking resemblance to that of Sparda - the horns, the four wings, the exoskeleton - meaning DMC2 is somewhere in the distant future, as Capcom has already stated.

 

[Zato-OW]

Huh Dante and Vergil always being equal makes no sense. Dante got owned the first fight then Dante owned Vergil in the 2nd. Yes they were both born to surpass Sparda and they were both born with a different side of Sparda's personality but that doesn't mean his power was split between both of them. At then end of DMC3 Vergil was thirsty as ever for Sparda's power but he still couldn't defeat Dante because Dante collected too much power by then. Vergil underestimated him and lost because of it. Dante made that same mistake during there first battle in the Manga and in DMC3.

Dante even said it his self in DMC4 when Angus couldn't figure out how he wasn't able to match Dante's power. Just listen to what he spoke about and you will think back to why Vergil was defeated and wasn't as powerful as Dante. Vergil only had the upper edge the first fights because he unlocked his DT whiched increased his power even more. Also he unlocked it at a very early age and that should've gave him a huge advantage to become even more stronger. But in the end he failed because he pushed away his emotions,that is why he couldn't become stronger.

 

[Keaton]

^IIRC Dante didn't kill Virgil, they both reached a stalemate and Virgil chose to remain in hell. Dante did'nt beat him.

The only 'victories' between the twins was the first fight where Dante was impaled on Rebellion and his Devil Awoke (Victory to Virgil...technically), and when Dante Defeated Nelo3 in Devil May Cry 1.

The twins...are...twins. Their power is parallel to each others, there may be variations in their moves and style, but in any test they would score evenly.

Depending on Virgils state at the time of DMC2 (the furthest point in DMC history), Dante may have out powered him if he hasn't been in a state to develop/train/grow/w-e. But I find it doubtful...Virgil will always be Dantes other half, his yin to yang, they will always fight and neither will win, but, neither will lose if you ask me

I keep thinking about the majin, perhaps it was 'given' to Dante by Sparda himself ... hence the resemblence? But, I wonder if Virgils would be identical, or wether it would weald blue blades instead?

So much confusion and speculation lol

 

[Sparda™]

That doesn't count for Dante, Vergil and Nero. They have human souls and demonic essences.

Dante and Vergil are equal in power. And yes, the power is split between them equally.

Since you mentioned their fights...

At the 1st fight, Vergil defeated Dante. At the second, It was a tie, and at the third, Dante had the upper hand. Despite the emotions you're talking about, the power was the same.

If one goes up with power, the other will follow. It has always been this way, It will always be. Even in the fight in DMC1, of Dante versus Nelo Angelo, It's the same.

At 1st Nelo almost kills Dante, at the 2nd they are in a tie, and in the 3rd, despite with new enhanced powers from Mundus, Nelo Angelo is defeated.

 

[Zato-OW]

That shows you who the true victor is, he beat him not once but twice in their series of battles. Yeah ok it is yin and yang but guess what Dante is alive and Vergil is dead. Vergil admitted to being defeated to Dante in DMC3 with surprise. If they were so called equal at the end of DMC3 then it would've been an equal fight.
But Dante out classed him and it showed Vergil's fustration because he was being defeated and he knew it. He had troubles even getting back onto his feet while Dante had a look of shame on his face.

Vergil payed for his sins when fighting Mundus and was killed because of his cold heart and ego(karma I guess.). Then he is killed again in DMC1 by Dante to free him from Mundus grasp. Now if what you said was true then Vergil would still be alive(As Nelo Angelo) and Dante wouldn't have been able to kill him. Its just very simple logic here that Dante is stronger then Vergil because the proof is there in the games. If Vergil comes back to challenge Dante the 3rd time he will lose again as usual.

Now don't get me wrong it was far from a fair fight for Vergil with Dante having QS,DG,and five Devil Arms. He just gained too much power by the end of DMC3 and it was too much power for Vergil to handle. But I guess its Vergil's own fault for using that worthless Force Edge and laying down his Yamato. They were close in power but Dante was stronger.