Let's Talk About That Combat! DMC & DmC.

[The Final Offer]

Attention people in this thread...

Which game did you have the most fun with?

That's the game you favor.

What type of depth in combat it has doesn't matter. Your enjoyment of the combat does.

 

[Demi-fiend]

BUT UR NOT BEING OBJECTIVEZ ABOUT COMBAT.

 

[lostlook]

^Dude is trying so hard to make people mad.

lol

gg

no re

And to stay on topic, maybe Chaser should've explained his point with math symbols, e.g., (DMC4 skill ceiling>DmC skill ceiling) =/= (DMC4 combat>DmC combat).

The problem I'm seeing here is that saying DmC "lacks depth" is sort of wrong, because the games have different mechanics at play. The game certainly has depth, and the ease or difficulty in which that depth is reached doesn't make something better, worse, or lacking.

There's really no need for some argument about "depth" one way or the other. They all achieve what they set out to do, sometimes easier in some ways than others.

First off, it started with civil discussion and then it turned into an argument about semantics when people felt as if their opinions were being "attacked" as others were merely trying to get a simple point across. Such is the internet. *sigh*

I don't think it's wrong to state which one has less depth when someone can provide facts about the different intricacies in both combat systems. Chaser obviously has the skills, knowledge, and experience as seen through his videos/tutorials. However, it is wrong to argue those facts with opinions on how one combat system makes you feel compared to the other. The discussion is not about feelings.

Most gamers consider the DMC/DmC franchise having the best combat out of all hack and slash/beat 'em ups. And if people can discuss the combat between God of War, Metal Gear Rising, Bayonetta, and Ninja Gaiden, then I see no reason to not be able to draw comparisons between DMC4's and DmC's combat.

Most fighting games have very different mechanics and there's almost a consensus within the Fighting Game Community (FGC) on which games are more difficult, have steeper learning curves, and/or have higher skill ceilings. I think the problem is that the hack and slash/beat 'em genre is generally a casual genre compared to more competitive genres (shooters, fighters, mobas, etc.), thus leading to a less vocal community which leaves many gamers in the dark about just how far combat systems can go in these individual games.

 

[The Final Offer]

^Dude is trying so hard to make people mad.

lol

gg

no re

And to stay on topic, maybe Chaser should've explained his point with math symbols, e.g., (DMC4 skill ceiling>DmC skill ceiling) =/= (DMC4 combat>DmC combat).




First off, it started with civil discussion and then it turned into an argument about semantics when people felt as if their opinions were being "attacked" as others were merely trying to get a simple point across. Such is the internet. *sigh*

I don't think it's wrong to state which one has less depth when someone can provide facts about the different intricacies in both combat systems. Chaser obviously has the skills, knowledge, and experience as seen through his videos/tutorials. However, it is wrong to argue those facts with opinions on how one combat system makes you feel compared to the other. The discussion is not about feelings.

Most gamers consider the DMC/DmC franchise having the best combat out of all hack and slash/beat 'em ups. And if people can discuss the combat between God of War, Metal Gear Rising, Bayonetta, and Ninja Gaiden, then I see no reason to not be able to draw comparisons between DMC4's and DmC's combat.

Most fighting games have very different mechanics and there's almost a consensus within the Fighting Game Community (FGC) on which games are more difficult, have steeper learning curves, and/or have higher skill ceilings. I think the problem is that the hack and slash/beat 'em genre is generally a casual genre compared to more competitive genres (shooters, fighters, mobas, etc.), thus leading to a less vocal community which leaves many gamers in the dark about just how far combat systems can go in these individual games.

The question is why? Why are you people arguing about this? To prove one game has more depth than the other? That's laughable. Who really gives a flying saucer about the depth in a game? Not the people who made the DMC4's mechanics, because those people are the same people that made DmC's game mechanics.

This was their decision. Why are you in here comparing their past works to their present? They know what they did before and chose not to do it this time. To them, they may have felt that they had succeeded their past combat. They may feel that this is better.

People are saying they enjoyed the combat of one game over the other that evidently has more "depth" than it. There's nothing more for you to say to them that they don't already know but, the same thing. It has more depth. It has more depth.

I thought you guys would've been speaking about how to improve the combat of both games by now.

 

[lostlook]

The question is why? Why are you people arguing about this? To prove one game has more depth than the other? That's laughable. Who really gives a flying saucer about the depth in a game? Not the people who made the DMC4's mechanics, because those people are the same people that made DmC's game mechanics.

This was their decision. Why are you in here comparing their past works to their present? They know what they did before and chose not to do it this time. To them, they may have felt that they had succeeded their past combat. They may feel that this is better.

People are saying they enjoyed the combat of one game over the other that evidently has more "depth" than it. There's nothing more for you to say to them that they don't already know but, the same thing. It has more depth. It has more depth.

I thought you guys would've been speaking about how to improve the combat of both games by now.

TC wrote: Like the tittle says, this is all about Devil May Cry's and DmC: Devil May Cry's combat. So, what makes it complex? What makes it good? Most importantly what make it fun? From what I've notice most people like comparing Devil May Cry 4 and DmC's combat to each other and leave DMC 1, 2, 3 out of it. Is it because Devil May 4 combat is superior to predecessors? As it show great improvements of it's past installments? Or just copy pasted from DMC 3 with some changes and nothing new? So, your thoughts?

I'd also suggest that you to read my previous post again as it contains answers to your other questions. But I think I know what you want to hear from me and this thread is not the place.

It's a shame that fellow gamers can't discuss combat mechanics (which is probably the most objective part of any video game) without having others derail threads and think that the discussion is just another hate party in disguise. There are other forums for that. If someone has to state that they're not a hater, list a bunch of points, and write a bunch of paragraphs to prove so, then there is something fundamentally wrong with the dynamic between pros, antis, and neutrals in this forum. And this forum is supposed to better than the others.

 

[The Final Offer]

TC wrote: Like the tittle says, this is all about Devil May Cry's and DmC: Devil May Cry's combat. So, what makes it complex? What makes it good? Most importantly what make it fun? From what I've notice most people like comparing Devil May Cry 4 and DmC's combat to each other and leave DMC 1, 2, 3 out of it. Is it because Devil May 4 combat is superior to predecessors? As it show great improvements of it's past installments? Or just copy pasted from DMC 3 with some changes and nothing new? So, your thoughts?

I'd also suggest that you to read my previous post again as it contains answers to your other questions. But I think I know what you want to hear from me and this thread is not the place.

It's a shame that fellow gamers can't discuss combat mechanics (which is probably the most objective part of any video game) without having others derail threads and think that the discussion is just another hate party in disguise. There are other forums for that. If someone has to state that they're not a hater, list a bunch of points, and write a bunch of paragraphs to prove so, then there is something fundamentally wrong with the dynamic between pros, antis, and neutrals in this forum. And this forum is supposed to better than the others.

It's getting redundant. Same ol' topics.

I actually came here to talk about improvements that can be made. This thread hasn't even made it to that point yet.

 

[Demi-fiend]

Yep, just the same thing, ad nauseam.

 

[lostlook]

It's getting redundant. Same ol' topics.

I actually came here to talk about improvements that can be made. This thread hasn't even made it to that point yet.

Yeah, people having to repeat themselves over and over to get a simple point across is redundant. I'm sorry but did you even read any of the previous posts? There's good discussion there if you can find it. Also see TC's post again. It asks about improvements from the past but doesn't ask about "improvements that can be made." Pretty sure there's another thread somewhere talking about future improvements that you can hop on.

 

[ChaserTech]

I'm not sure why people think that the main purpose of this forum was to talk about "which combat system was more fun for you" when there were multiple questions asked in the original post.

"So, what makes it complex?
What makes it good?
Most importantly what make it fun? "

It's a forum about discussing the combat specifically between DMC4 and DmC. This also includes combat mechanics that gives each respective games their skill ceiling limit. This forum isn't only about talking about what makes a game fun for you, from what I've read in the original post.

Don't like what's being discussed? Go to another thread then. Hate to be blunt about it.

 

[The Final Offer]

I'm not sure why people think that the main purpose of this forum was to talk about "which combat system was more fun for you" when there were multiple questions asked in the original post.

"So, what makes it complex?
What makes it good?
Most importantly what make it fun? "

It's a forum about discussing the combat specifically between DMC4 and DmC. This also includes combat mechanics that gives each respective games their skill ceiling limit. This forum isn't only about talking about what makes a game fun for you, from what I've read in the original post.

Don't like what's being discussed? Go to another thread then. Hate to be blunt about it.

So at what point did you notice that we've got a topic on this already? I guess we need a duplicate thread to get newbies to feel like it's something new.

All I'm hoping for is that you guys finally get to that point where I can come in and talk about improvements. Like, what the other threads came to a conclusion on.

On top of that, I said what I did about the combat. I even managed to halt any flaming in this thread. But, for some reason, one of you thinks that someone was trying to make another mad. That's Frostmourne, he's nothing negative.

 

[ChaserTech]

So at what point did you notice that we've got a topic on this already? I guess we need a duplicate thread to get newbies to feel like it's something new.

I was adding my thoughts to the discussion. I saw you guys talking about it awhile ago.

All I'm hoping for is that you guys finally get to that point where I can come in and talk about improvements. Like, what the other threads came to a conclusion on.

Or you post your thoughts in the thread at that time. You don't have to wait for people to reach to that point. Because it might never happen.

You can come in and talk about improvements. No one's stopping you.

On top of that, I said what I did about the combat. I even managed to halt any flaming in this thread. But, for some reason, one of you thinks that someone was trying to make another mad. That's Frostmourne, he's nothing negative.

Because from what I've seen, Frostmourne has a tendency to try to spark up responses based on his own. And while that may not be negative to you, it could be considered negative to other users (Considering that Dark Drakan warned Frost about his actions in another thread)

 

[Exejpgwmv]

What makes the combat fun?
I'd say the plethora of moves, detailed animations, and sound effects is what gives both DMC4 and DmC that visceral satisfaction.
(P.S. I will soon be making a thread which lists all the mechanics of DMC4, but don't tell anybody.)

 

[ChaserTech]

What makes the combat fun?
I'd say the plethora of moves, detailed animations, and sound effects is what gives both DMC4 and DmC that visceral satisfaction.
(P.S. I will soon be making a thread which lists all the mechanics of DMC4, but don't tell anybody.)

I'd like to see what mechanics you know about DMC4. Do you plan on posting in the DMC4 thread?

 

[Exejpgwmv]

I'd like to see what mechanics you know about DMC4. Do you plan on posting in the DMC4 thread?

Yep.
Probably be up by late evening or tomorrow morning.

 

[SSSSwagmasterMLGDmCplaya]

The question is why? Why are you people arguing about this? To prove one game has more depth than the other? That's laughable. Who really gives a flying saucer about the depth in a game?

Simple, a lot of people care and argue about the depth of these games, especially when compared. The fact that this thread is made FOR discussion of the combat further justifies the argument. There are a lot of people out there with silly misconceptions such as DmC having more depth or that DmC has a Lock On feature, which is why there's so much arguing, because people like to talk but rarely do their research and testing.

But, for some reason, one of you thinks that someone was trying to make another mad. That's Frostmourne, he's nothing negative.

Its pretty obvious that that is his intention. And don't say "that's Frostmourne", because if I were to act natural in this forum, I would be banned by now, but no one will say "that's SSSSwagmaster" now will they?

 

[TWOxACROSS]

silly misconceptions such as...DmC has a Lock On feature

Buuuut it does have a lock-on feature >.> It's just not the rigid, hard lock like in the classics.

 

[The Final Offer]

Buuuut it does have a lock-on feature >.> It's just not the rigid, hard lock like in the classics.

I was JUST JJJJJJJJJJJJJJUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSSST about to post that.

Simple, a lot of people care and argue about the depth of these games, especially when compared. The fact that this thread is made FOR discussion of the combat further justifies the argument. There are a lot of people out there with silly misconceptions such as DmC having more depth or that DmC has a Lock On feature, which is why there's so much arguing, because people like to talk but rarely do their research and testing.


Its pretty obvious that that is his intention. And don't say "that's Frostmourne", because if I were to act natural in this forum, I would be banned by now, but no one will say "that's SSSSwagmaster" now will they?

Care to argue about the depth? The fact is that one actually DOES have more depth than the other ON PURPOSE. You guys are trying to figure out which one it is. There is definitely a thread that has the answer.

I'm just not with this whole discussion about which has the most depth. Like depth matters in the end. At the core, the argument is about which game offers more. When it all boils down to, which game is more fun to the player and why.

No, no one is going to say that's....you. But, someone did say that's Frostmourne.

 

[Exejpgwmv]

Its pretty obvious that that is his intention.

What exactly is he doing that is supposedly for the sole purpose of getting people angry?

 

[SSSSwagmasterMLGDmCplaya]

Buuuut it does have a lock-on feature >.> It's just not the rigid, hard lock like in the classics.

I've been through this a dozen of times, please tell me you aren't being serious. This usually my initial reaction.

Care to argue about the depth? The fact is that one actually DOES have more depth than the other ON PURPOSE. You guys are trying to figure out which one it is. There is definitely a thread that has the answer

I don't have to figure out what game has more depth, DMC4 obviously has more depth, unless I'm shown otherwise.

I'm just not with this whole discussion about which has the most depth. Like depth matters in the end. At the core, the argument is about which game offers more. When it all boils down to, which game is more fun to the player and why.

It all depends on the player's perspective if depth matters, and for me and others here, it does. Some are still playing DMC4 after so many years because of its insane depth, something I see as money well spent, unlike buying some expensive generic shooter or something that I'll only play through once.
You see, there are some that argue that they like DmC better than DMC4, which is perfectly fine, until they try to claim they like DmC more because it has more depth than DMC4, which is wrong, unless proven otherwise.

What exactly is he doing that is supposedly for the sole purpose of getting people angry?

Mocking me after someone posts a response to my argument:

Yup. Terrible.

Mocking people because they are trying to say that depth is objective.

BUT UR NOT BEING OBJECTIVEZ ABOUT COMBAT.

And much more in other threads.

If you want to delude yourself, fine, just keep it to yourself. But hey, I'm baiting right? I'm still laughing at that accusation.

 

[The Final Offer]

I've been through this a dozen of times, please tell me you aren't being serious. This usually my initial reaction.

The f is this? You do know that hardlock and softlock exist? If you do not, then you need to listen to the interviews about DmC's combat and on top of that replay the older DMCs and don't use hardlock...what does it revert to? SOFTLOCK.

I don't have to figure out what game has more depth, DMC4 obviously has more depth, unless I'm shown otherwise.

I thought I already stated this.

It all depends on the player's perspective if depth matters, and for me and others here, it does. Some are still playing DMC4 after so many years because of its insane depth, something I see as money well spent, unlike buying some expensive generic shooter or something that I'll only play through once.
You see, there are some that argue that they like DmC better than DMC4, which is perfectly fine, until they try to claim they like DmC more because it has more depth than DMC4, which is wrong, unless proven otherwise.

More depth in animation maybe? Maybe they like it because it feels like you're playing as a human and not a robot. If you compare the presentation of moves between both DmC and DMC 4, you'll learn alot about how repetitive the combat looks and of the use of the word spam is logical here.

I liked DMC 4 for what it was and it's depth is only an illusion to me. You have no true air combos and no real reason to enemy step unless you wanna see the same animations again. I'm not ok with games that are not fluent or smooth. Hear me out on this one, in DMC4, you had these statues that wanted you to combo them to a certain rank. The last statue you run into is one that requires your entire move set done in a certain manner. This alone is what made me realize that if I used one weapon and tried an S rank I wouldn't get it because one weapon has a small list of moves that rely on twitchy animations to make it worth something. UNstylish.

DMC 4 has how many weapons? How experienced was it's Dante? The thing that ****es alot of people off when I say this is......if DmC had DMC 4's weapons...it's combat would be deeper than DMC4's. Now this is just the weapons being there in DmC's combat style. So to me, that makes it all the more exciting to hear about a new DmC. Because it's combat system is the best I've ever had in a hack n slash.

Mocking me after someone posts a response to my argument:

Mocking you?

Mocking people because they are trying to say that depth is objective.

Mocking people?

And much more in other threads.

Are you truly offended by his comedic manners?

If you want to delude yourself, fine, just keep it to yourself. But hey, I'm baiting right? I'm still laughing at that accusation.