Let's Talk About That Combat! DMC & DmC.

[ChaserTech]

No he spoke on WHY DmC wasn't as good with gameplay as DMC4, when really it's all subjective. Just because one person says DMC4 is better, doesn't mean it's universal truth.

. . . I literally don't know how to make myself clearer to you on what I'm saying. I'm not talking gameplay. For the thousandth time, I'm talking about how deep the combat system is. There's a huge difference, seriously.

If you prefer DmC's gameplay because it's better to you, good for you. But I've been talking about combat depth all this time and why DmC lacks it yet you keep putting words in my mouth and keep pushing your irrelevant opinion on what I'm talking about. Stop it, please.

 

[Demi-fiend]

Combat depth is not gameplay...

... ?

 

[ChaserTech]

Combat depth is not gameplay...

... ?

Technically speaking, it's a branch of it.

When I talk about how "deep" the combat system, I'm talking about the mechanics that each game has to offer under a high skill setting. When pushed to it's limits, essentially. DMC4 has a very high skill ceiling which contains a lot of hidden mechanics within the game. DmC's own mechanics limits it's potential but it still offers a good amount of depth for what it has. And because of this, it's combat system isn't as deep as DMC4.

-_-; Seriously, I'm not saying that the combat system is better, that's subjective. I'm saying that it has less depth than DMC4. That's been my whole point all this time.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

. . . I literally don't know how to make myself clearer to you on what I'm saying. I'm not talking gameplay. For the thousandth time, I'm talking about how deep the combat system is. There's a huge difference, seriously.

If you prefer DmC's gameplay because it's better to you, good for you. But I've been talking about combat depth all this time and why DmC lacks it yet you keep putting words in my mouth and keep pushing your irrelevant opinion on what I'm talking about. Stop it, please.

I'll stop when you realize depth in gameplay doesn't mean superior. And even then you even said in the very first post how DmC's gameplay has no "superior depth" to it compared to DmC, which I call bull because whether that be the case, doesn't mean DmC doesn't have it's own form of deepness that has to be compared to DMC4's clunky gameplay.

But if you want to keep up with this game, then I can't help you make it any clearer that just because DMC4 is a master DMC player's godsend, does not mean it's EVERY DMC player's godsend.

 

[Demi-fiend]

I'll stop when you realize depth in gameplay doesn't mean superior.

THEN IT'LL NEVER STOP. D:

-_-; Seriously, I'm not saying that the combat system is better, that's subjective. I'm saying that it has less depth than DMC4. That's been my whole point all this time.

I don't know; I keep thinking that "less depth" = "worse". But that's probably just my imagination.

If you want to keep that particular stance, then I'm not going to try to stop you from thinking that DmC's gameplay isn't as "deep".

 

[SSSSwagmasterMLGDmCplaya]

No he spoke on WHY DmC wasn't as good with gameplay as DMC4, when really it's all subjective. Just because one person says DMC4 is better, doesn't mean it's universal truth.

No, he spoke on WHY DmC lacks depth in comparison to DMC4. That's not subjective if it can be observed. Regarding your last sentence, I don't know who claimed one person's word is the universal truth, or anything similar to it. Unless shown otherwise, it has no place in this argument.

I'm sorry, how do you JC? rapidly pressing jump after an attack. Button mashing the jump button mixed with about thirty other buttons

Or jump after a move. You don't have to rapidly press Jump to JC, you can do, you know, a single timed button tap.
Anyways, you obviously didn't read the definition I gave you of button mashing. Button mashing requires RANDOM inputs. Last time button mashed, I didn't I JC Aerial Rave or did StarRaves multiple times. Those techniques aren't mindless button mashing, those techniques require some degree of timing and always follow a pattern. If only it was that easy.

Like I really care. I still like playing DmC so I don't care what anyone else would think in that disregard because, low and behold, I like playing fun games, and for me, DMC4 doesn't do it for me.

If you prefer DMC4, woo hoo to you, but for me, it's terrible.

That's it. End of story.

I know, you mentioned it multiple times that you prefer DmC. The issue is that you're bringing your opinions into an objective discussion

I'll stop when you realize depth in gameplay doesn't mean superior. And even then you even said in the very first post how DmC's gameplay has no "superior depth" to it compared to DmC, which I call bull because whether that be the case, doesn't mean DmC doesn't have it's own form of deepness that has to be compared to DMC4's clunky gameplay

Chaser's posts have been about why DmC lacks depth in comparison to DMC4, not which one is superior. He's been trying to tell you that, but you keep twisting his words so that he appears to be saying that DMC4 is superior in terms of gameplay, in which I invite you to quote him saying such thing in this topic.

In case you don't know, combat depth is like the depth as the ocean, it can be measured, and when you get measurements saying that one part of the ocean is deeper than another, its not an opinion, its a fact.

DMC4's clunky gameplay

.......... whatever you say

 

[ChaserTech]

No, he spoke on WHY DmC lacks depth in comparison to DMC4. That's not subjective if it can be observed. Regarding your last sentence, I don't know who claimed one person's word is the universal truth, or anything similar to it. Unless shown otherwise, it has no place in this argument.




Or jump after a move. You don't have to rapidly press Jump to JC, you can do, you know, a single timed button tap.
Anyways, you obviously didn't read the definition I gave you of button mashing. Button mashing requires RANDOM inputs. Last time button mashed, I didn't I JC Aerial Rave or did StarRaves multiple times. Those techniques aren't mindless button mashing, those techniques require some degree of timing and always follow a pattern. If only it was that easy.





I know, you mentioned it multiple times that you prefer DmC. The issue is that you're bringing your opinions into an objective discussion



Chaser's posts have been about why DmC lacks depth in comparison to DMC4, not which one is superior. He's been trying to tell you that, but you keep twisting his words so that he appears to be saying that DMC4 is superior in terms of gameplay, in which I invite you to quote him saying such thing in this topic.

In case you don't know, combat depth is like the depth as the ocean, it can be measured, and when you get measurements saying that one part of the ocean is deeper than another, its not an opinion, its a fact.



.......... whatever you say

Jeezus christ, thanks for that.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

No, he spoke on WHY DmC lacks depth in comparison to DMC4. That's not subjective if it can be observed. Regarding your last sentence, I don't know who claimed one person's word is the universal truth, or anything similar to it. Unless shown otherwise, it has no place in this argument.

I never said it did. But it's obvious that many people seem to be under the delusional speculation that because DMC4 has more buttons to press, that makes it reign supreme to DmC, which I call bull because GOW has less depth then DMC4, and it's still selling more copies.

As to why, it's still subjective. Depth in gameplay isn't something that's gonna be argued over because your depth and my depth could be two different meanings. DmC doesn't lack depth compared to DMC4. I say it's just as, if not, better in regards of it's own depth.

Or jump after a move. You don't have to rapidly press Jump to JC, you can do, you know, a single timed button tap.
Anyways, you obviously didn't read the definition I gave you of button mashing. Button mashing requires RANDOM inputs. Last time button mashed, I didn't I JC Aerial Rave or did StarRaves multiple times. Those techniques aren't mindless button mashing, those techniques require some degree of timing and always follow a pattern. If only it was that easy.

It is that easy though. That's basically the gist of DMC4's JC; mashing on the jump button after each attack to stay in the air. Whether at random or not depends how spazzed your fingers are on the controller.

I know, you mentioned it multiple times that you prefer DmC. The issue is that you're bringing your opinions into an objective discussion

It was already opinionated when you say "this game has more depth because..." when I can respond with "no it doesn't and here's what I mean..."

Chaser's posts have been about why DmC lacks depth in comparison to DMC4, not which one is superior.

But why should I agree with DmC lacking depth in the first place? I think DmC has it's own brand of depth that can compare to DMC4's form of depth. I get what Chaser is trying to say, but I just don't agree with that. It's not rocket science. It's a simple thing; DmC has depth on par with DMC4, and that's just how I'm putting it.

You guys are just making this into something bigger then it really is.

 

[Demi-fiend]

You guys are just making this into something bigger then it really is.

That's what haters do. It's what they've always done.

 

[mrrandomlulz]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this thread made for everyone to post the combat of the DMC game THEY thought was best, in the DMC GENERAL sub-forum?

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

lets just agree to disagree before this turns into a 20 page thread, i know where chaser is coming from as i have played DMC4 extensively on pc and on xbox before that and i played DmC for months too and Depth doesn't mean better no but he is right on the deeper mechanics and creativity available in DMC4 when you explore the combat and dig a bit deeper into it. When you avail of all it has to offer it is quite jaw dropping and fun for those who are into jc and going bonkers in games like DMC and gaiden.

i used to love shuriken cancel in ng2 even so i am exploiting mechanics a long time so i know what chaser is trying to get accross.

my view is DMC4 has more depth but that isn't a factor that makes it better as a whole but to people who look for hardcore cancel mechanics and great combos it ia better in that regard than DmC is.

 

[Demi-fiend]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this thread made for everyone to post the combat of the DMC game THEY thought was best, in the DMC GENERAL sub-forum?

You're right, random.

When you're right, you're right.

-----------------------------------------------------

lets just agree to disagree before this turns into a 20 page thread

20 PAGE THREAD FTWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

 

[ChaserTech]

lets just agree to disagree before this turns into a 20 page thread, i know where chaser is coming from as i have played DMC4 extensively on pc and on xbox before that and i played DmC for months too and Depth doesn't mean better no but he is right on the deeper mechanics and creativity available in DMC4 when you explore the combat and dig a bit deeper into it. When you avail of all it has to offer it is quite jaw dropping and fun for those who are into jc and going bonkers in games like DMC and gaiden.

i used to love shuriken cancel in ng2 even so i am exploiting mechanics a long time so i know what chaser is trying to get accross.

my view is DMC4 has more depth but that isn't a factor that makes it better as a whole but to people who look for hardcore cancel mechanics and great combos it ia better in that regard than DmC is.

Yeah I'ma agree to disagree and just not respond to DragonMaster anymore.
But all of what you said, I do agree with.

I don't know; I keep thinking that "less depth" = "worse". But that's probably just my imagination.

If you want to keep that particular stance, then I'm not going to try to stop you from thinking that DmC's gameplay isn't as "deep".

That's the thing, less depth doesn't automatically mean a game is worse! It just means that the game lacks depth when it comes to advanced mechanics. A game can be good without advanced mechanics. Just take a look at Darksiders 1.
The game is fairly fun, combat is slightly repetitive, but it was a solid game. Darksiders 2 expanded on this by making the combat better. However the pacing was pretty bad when it came to the story, eventually speeding up with each area you went into.

Whenever I say that a game lacks depth, it's safe to say that I'm saying it lacks depth at a high skill ceiling. It doesn't take away gameplay experience but it limits the game from what it could do in the hands of experienced DMC veterans. Which DmC has that problem even though it's a good game.

 

[Demi-fiend]

Ok... fine.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Could've said that from the beginning.

 

[Demi-fiend]

Could've said that from the beginning.

ikr?? This.

 

[WolfOD64]

Wow, I leave the thread for three days, and come back expecting everyone to be flaming me for leveling criticism at DMC3...
...and low and behold, everyone's arguing about DmC and DMC4 being better than one another.

I'm gonna be honest...I'm pleasantly surprised, guys. There was an actually an argument sparked in my absence, and it was about my two favorite games rather than my least favorite.

 

[Demi-fiend]

There was an actually an argument sparked in my absence, and it was about my two favorite games rather than my least favorite.

DMC3 is your least favorite? It's in my personal second place below DmC.

 

[WolfOD64]

DMC3 is your least favorite? It's in my personal second place below DmC.

Yes. Yes, it is. I don't despise that game, by any means, but infuriates me to this day given how much potential it had to be great.
I kind of wrote an entire angry, mindless tangent about it in an earlier post...but I'll understand if you don't want undergo eighty years of aging in the time it'll take you to read all of it. I think I obtained a few white hairs just writing the damn thing....
...and I didn't obtain them in Nephilim fashion, either.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

The problem I'm seeing here is that saying DmC "lacks depth" is sort of wrong, because the games have different mechanics at play. The game certainly has depth, and the ease or difficulty in which that depth is reached doesn't make something better, worse, or lacking.

There's really no need for some argument about "depth" one way or the other. They all achieve what they set out to do, sometimes easier in some ways than others.

------------------​

Anyway, on topic. I liked DmC's combat overall because it felt so much less restrictive, movement felt a lot more free and didn't anchor the player as much. However, DMC3 will always hold a special place in my heart because it was the one game that gave me an incredible amount of Gunslinger abilities - which makes it all the more sad that most of DMC3 (and...well...all the DMCs) focus way more on melee combat, making most of the gunslinging obsolete when you reach about halfway through the game(s).

If a DmC2 could give me back things like Wild Stomp, Gun Stinger, and a faster Rainstorm, I'd be a happy camper. Granted, DmC also gave me enjoyable melee combat to make up for the obsolescence of firearms that inevitably befalls later portions, par for the course.