How to bring Vergil back

[V]

When everyone says he "hates" Vergil, what exactly did he say? Does anyone have the actual quote from him on his opinion of Vergil?

Surely if he really disliked the character of Vergil in 1/3 and was directly involved in creating who we call Vergil now, he wouldn't have ended up making him to an extent an empathisable or admirable character. He should have made him a completely cold-blooded murderer and a total loon, for example. Which he isn't. He should have made him completely unlikeable and dishonourable, which he isn't - for one thing there's all this stuff about "guts and honour" in regard to Nelo which immediately sets him apart from the other antagonists and demonic characters and isn't the sort of thing you just shove in to make an audience 'hate' a character, even if he's just a boss.

Vergil seems deliberately made with this idea in mind, that he is power-hungry and wayward and not exactly a nice guy, but he's not a complete as*hole. Now why bother doing that if you simply hate the character and want everyone else to hate him too?

 

[Vampi]

Lexy, who are you referring to that hates Vergil? It can't be Kamiya cause Kamiya doesn't hate his characters, even though he doesn't own sum of them anymore. And also i think Devil Bane is really misinformed...i have no idea where he got that article from. Hopefully he has a link to it or sumthing.

But its obvious Kobayashi in sum way doesn't like Vergil. He doesn't have to say it, he does it through his actions. Look at DMC 4 and the DMC 4 novels for evidence at his utter anti-Vergil campaign. He pretty much ruined Vergil's character and reputation with implying that Vergil might have an offspring.

 

[V]

Oh, I was referring to Kobayashi there, he's the only one I've heard of that apparently dislikes Vergil.

Hmm, I think Koba got the wrong end of the stick with Vergil in 4, and those Vergil references in the novel, as perhaps he thought the fans wanted some kind of fanservice - but obviously not that kind. I mean, apparently the guy thinks DMC needs to be cleaned up and less violent and unpleasant for female gamers, so I wouldn't be surprised if he thought Nero being Vergil's (unexplained) son would have gone down great with fans. He doesn't seem too 'in touch' with the audience, does he?

 

[Devil Bane]

@ Vampi : That's Bingo Morihashi,the one who wrote the DMC4 novel[alone...ft*ck].For his other works : DMC4 as you said,the anime and...surprise,surprise; DMC3 again as the writter with Koba,who at the time had to work his a$$ of as : an executive producer[studio head + legal issues + job hiring...the one who gets the proper media for the visuals...the motion capture...don't know how to sum it up in one word],a head writter and team leader[apointing the correct poeple at the correct posts etc].

So Koba hating Vergil...yeah...considering the emphasis he and mr.[?]/ms[?] Chayamachi Suguro put on Vergil not only as the antagonist of the game but also as character in the second volume going so much into detail...I find it hard to believe that he really hates him...

And working on those links.It's not easy to find[or find again] links from 2-3 years ago.

@ Lexy : Not "female gamers" but "fujoshi" to let them see more sparkly picture sof their favourite heroes...like in SB3...he just uses that word as an excuse.And as someone correctly stated in the official Capcom forums :

Don't mistake Kobayashi's words to mean that the entire game was designed around attracting female gamers, no, that is only just one aspect of his wider goal of achieving mass appeal. If he were asked how he tried to appeal to the RPG Fantasy crowd he would most probably have said the same thing, if he were asked how he tried to appeal to the anime crowd he would probably have said the same thing, if he were asked how he tried to attract more male gamers he would have probably explained the reasons for Gloria and oversexualising the females. DMC4 is a ****tail blend of various popular generic elements, isolating just one on it's own and analysing the game with just that in mind just demeans the argument that's being presented.

and that's that...doesn't mean he is correct thougth.[Koba that is.]

A bit off topic :

Don't know if it is official or not,but it seems that Ninja theory will be either alone or will have the director of DMC3 and 4,Itsuno with them.

 

[Vampi]

Kobayashi is only mentioned in Special Thanks during the end credits of any DMC game with the exception of DMC 4, since he was the Producer (not executive) at the time. So of course he held more power. Special Thanks is not really a major contributor to the series. He only contributed in a small way, whatever the hell that is.

Bingo Morihashi no longer works at Capcom and when he wrote the DMC 4 novel it was freelance. So probably that novel isn't canon or whatnot. We just don't know for sure until DMC 5 comes out. I'm sure there was alot of stuff taken out of his original script for the game. I'm pretty sure it was done intentionally by Koba, since DMC 4 has alot of plotholes and the story isn't self-contained at all.

Anyway, its obvious Koba hates Vergil. Whoever think he's not really have to take a closer look.

And where are you getting this info about Itsuno-san working with Ninja Theory? You really have to provide links to where you find your info unless you're making up stuff for people to start gossiping about it.

 

[Devil Bane]

^Just something I saw from the Capcom unity forums.That's why I said it's I don't know.

Anyway,to be square : you are right,until I find those links and info,you are correct,I'm wrong.

Also,are you part of Capcom unity too,like moses?

Bah,I'll have the answers someday...when I get back.

 

[Zato-OW]

Oh, I was referring to Kobayashi there, he's the only one I've heard of that apparently dislikes Vergil.

Hmm, I think Koba got the wrong end of the stick with Vergil in 4, and those Vergil references in the novel, as perhaps he thought the fans wanted some kind of fanservice - but obviously not that kind. I mean, apparently the guy thinks DMC needs to be cleaned up and less violent and unpleasant for female gamers, so I wouldn't be surprised if he thought Nero being Vergil's (unexplained) son would have gone down great with fans. He doesn't seem too 'in touch' with the audience, does he?

He said in an interview that he was getting tired of people asking about Vergil(not a word on word quote). Also that the DMC team decided that they wanted to move away from that part of the story and start a new(Nero). He also claim that Vergil was in the past and that they have no plans for him in the future unless its a back story or something. But that was before the game was released. He said his favorite character is Dante and that "he" created Nero to surpass Dante. I think he mixed "he" with "we" though.

 

[Vampi]

He said in an interview that he was getting tired of people asking about Vergil(not a word on word quote). Also that the DMC team decided that they wanted to move away from that part of the story and start a new(Nero). He also claim that Vergil was in the past and that they have no plans for him in the future unless its a back story or something. But that was before the game was released. He said his favorite character is Dante and that "he" created Nero to surpass Dante. I think he mixed "he" with "we" though.

I would really be interested in reading that interview if you could find it. I have to put it in my collection of "Koba is the new Anti-Christ" files.

Devil Bane: What Capcom Unity say isn't legit...especially if you're taking that quote from the DMC forums. Practically everyone their is a noob or just don't know what the hell there talking about.

 

[aoshi]

For one, Nero seems to have re-incarnated yamatoa.If he is a re-incarnation of sparda, I believe sparda sword would have reacted more than yamatoa literally residing in his arms. If vergil was jus another demon in series and producers hate him, Why reference yamatoa and its legacy in 4.Nero is related to yamatoa and vergil but am not sure of connection.

I believe wat koba meant was vergil's characterisation as a samurai was in the past and not vergil as a character. I mean in lines of sparda as someone who sealed demon world but seems to be centre of attention in every DMC game.Japs(asians) have a wierd way to express which cannot be taken literally as it is. I mean from significance give to yamatoa in 4 was more than dante which would not be the case if execs hate vergil so much. I also think dante's characterisation was supporting than a lead.I believe vergil could be referred in next games but doubt a physical presence.

I find it strange that some leads that seem to have been building blocks in series have not been a part of DMC 4 except for kobayashi.I am not sure why but he does deserve credit for 4 which was a decent game.

 

[Vampi]

I have no idea what you just said LOL. But i know one thing for sure, Vergil is NOT a samurai LOL.

But i'm trying to understand the gist of what you're saying. I think what you're saying (and correct me if i'm wrong) is that Koba had Vergil's presence in DMC 4 just not his physical body (which i think everyone knows by now). But still, it doesn't make it any less stupid.

DMC is about Sparda and his legacy and legend. Let Nero be connected to Sparda, that would've been fine. But totally putting Vergil's characterization into doubt and implying he had a son is totally ruining his character, that's not Vergil. Vergil wouldn't be careless, and if he did have sex he would be smart enough to use a condom. He doesn't need competition from his own offspring, he has competition already with Dante. Nero is just an unnecessary 3rd wheel. Like the saying goes "Two's company. Three's a crowd". Nero should just be a defective Sparda clone just like Lucia was defective Secretary clone in DMC 2.

Oh and don't describe Japanese people as "Japs". Believe it or not, that's very offensive to them. I know cause i used the same word once and i was corrected by sumone who lives in Japan.

And its spelled Yamato, not Yamatoa...Not trying to insult you (maybe English isn't your first language) but just trying to help a lil.

 

[aoshi]

^ LOL ... DMC is not your game and not everything in DMC has to be your way. Besides DMC is fictional to origins by their creators. There is no point in treating them as facts.If you don't understand wat i said, Its not my issue and i can't explain any more clearly of significance of yamato(or yamatoa watever)in DMC 4. Why do you think DMC 4 was stupid?I think it was bit off the series but not stupid.

My point - If vergil was hated by their creators and is jus as any demon that dante hunted down, Yamato would not have been in DMC 4 as power that agnus or nero desired. But yamato(which is strongly related to vergil) was referred in DMC 4. Jus as sparda's sword is in every game. Though sparda is physically not present in game, He is referred in all games. Why not have vergil as such a character?


I meant there was a connection between nero and vergil but did not state that nero was vergil's son. Again, if creators were to state so, Its fictional and their creation which can't be argued or justified. Also where is this competition between characters? Each character has its significance in series and don't think is competing in getting attention or proving a point. Atleast vergil would not have to prove anything to nero if nero was his son as nero believes wat vergil believes.

And Yamato(or yamatoa) is not an english word and can be spelled anyways as long as its understood.

DMC is fictional and can't be argued as facts with incidents or terms. It can only be speculated in different directions as wat could have been better.I think DMC 4 was next step to series compared to 3 with good gameplay mechanics and entertaining walk-through experience.


And wherever you get this idea that english isn't my first language, I don't do speculation as much as fanboys but i think i was on subject of this thread.

 

[V]

But i know one thing for sure, Vergil is NOT a samurai LOL.

Yup. A samurai serves someone else, body and sword; Vergil serves nobody but himself. If he's talking about bushido, it could be argued Vergil appreciated some aspects of bushido, but that doesn't make him much like a samurai, no more than owning a katana makes him one. Roffles.

 

[aoshi]

^ Sorry but japanese katanas belong to samurais. Apparently game is almost set in 21st century(pizzas, Bikes and wat not) and characterization can not interpret a typical samurai with a master but to create one in line with democracy . But in most aspects, Vergil was a samurai.

1)Yes - Bushido is one.
2)Samurai sword.

Its not possible to have a samurai in DMC universe but vergil's characterization had more traits of samurai in him.

Vergil did not flash his katana like a newb. He is known to wield the sword with great speed. Apparently, a katana is known to be well used by samurais. Which vergil did and i would say was as better as a samurai.

I don't know wat other traits would contradict him being a samurai besides serving a master which Nero-angelo did.

I find sentiments and emotions of samurai in most japanese fictions disguised in characters. Vergil is one of them.

 

[V]

Haha, whatever you say.

 

[Vampi]

LMAO! So i guess if i bought a katana and took sum ideals from bushido i'm automatically a samurai...ok.

Just like Lexy said, Vergil serves no one but himself. Him being NELO ANGELO (not Nero Angelo. And yes i know that was suppose to be his name all along. But Capcom kept the L in Nelo) is that he was brainwashed by Mundus, thus Mundus becamse his master. But that still doesn't make him anymore a samurai. He was forced against his will to serve Mundus. Samurai have free will, they're not brainwashed.

So yea your idea of Vergil being a samurai is just absurd. Might as well call Dante a ninja since he flips around and stuff.

I swear lil kids shouldn't play DMC. They have these ideals that aren't there. *coughaoshicough*

 

[Angel]

I think we're a tad off topic here. Can we stick to how to bring Vergil back rather than the squabbling some of you guys have been indulging in for the last couple of pages?

If you want to slam each other, do it on your own time and off the boards, please.

 

[rashed13]

hey i think that the game shuld start when the 3rd game ended when virgil in th hell and run to fight with the prince of darkness and you play with virgil until you get the prince of darkness then when you beat him you cross the gate to the human world so how about this i realy want to play with virgil his the coolest ever

 

[aoshi]

Seriously, some need to understand fictional themes than to see leather coats and between-legs.*coughvampicough*.

^ As much as i would love that, You can be sure that ain't gonna happen.I can hug you for your thoughts on vergil.:lol:.

 

[Angel]

Going from the sublime to the ridiculous, I reckon Nero should unzip himself from head to toe and Vergil steps out, smoking a cigar and twirling a cane.

Could happen...

 

[V]

Now that would rock.