How to bring Vergil back

[moseslmpg]

For the side-series, I meant that after this one game they could choose to make it a separate side-series (preferably 2D on PSP) or have Vergil pop in the main series every now and then.

Really, it is better for it to not get too close to Nero, and all of these ideas were made before DMC4 was released so I didn't know how much things would be thrown out of whack. I don't think it is impossible for Vergil and Nero to be on the scene together, but we don't know enough about Nero to know if it is safe to bring Vergil in yet.

I'll post the other coherent idea and new Vergil's general characteristics later.

To people who have read the other thread: Is this satisfactory?

 

[Meg]

Well I like the idea and think it would be a good game for after the main series ends. Vergil can come back in the main series at some point, but I think an origin story about him should wait. But I do like the idea.

 

[moseslmpg]

Why would we wait for the main series to end though? It would be irrelevant then.

The way I see it, the stories of the main series and side-series can develop concurrently nd in parallel, but not be dependent on each other. And they can both converge at one point (the elusive end of DMC), where all things are resolved.

I was actually thinking that there could be about 3 Vergil games and the last one ends with Vergil and Dante having a final duel to determine who gets to protect the human world or rule in Hell. And the idea would be that whoever wins the duel would be the one to go to Hell because they would survive more easily. In the end, Dante does win, but surprise surprise, Vergil casts himself into Hell first, just like in the end of DMC3.

From there on, the main series would continue normally until after DMC2 when the endgame arrives and Vergil is roused from his soul sleep as the ruler of Hell, and they go face off the final evil or whatever, and everyone dies. And lives happily ever after.

 

[Meg]

Well here's my problem with that: every dies.

 

[moseslmpg]

People die, it's what they do. Every conditioned thing are subject to decay. I didn't make it like that so don't get mad at me

 

[Meg]

The fact that people die isn't what bothers me. its that you want DMC to end with everyone dying, to me, is a crap idea.

 

[moseslmpg]

They're all going to die eventually, so why not let us see?

My own personal perception of the DMC universe is that one of its themes is the bleak hopelessness of fighting against evil. IMO there is no way it will end on a happy note, and I think it would be far more poignant if it ended on a somber note.

And anyway, with the entities in my framework that I sent you, there's no way a simple half-demon would have any chance of defeating them. This is a result of the Lovecraftian cosmicism I've injected into the framework, and my own anthropo-apotropism (turning away from humans/opposite of anthropocentrism).

 

[Meg]

I had the same problem with Hamlet's ending. The fact that everyone dies on the last page, to me, is abrupt and stupid. Yeah, people are gonna die, but having everyone die at the end of a long struggle is just cheap.

 

[moseslmpg]

Well, it is better than dying after a short struggle, right? I'd rather they all die in battle rather than on a rocking chair when they're 90. It wouldn't have to be abrupt, but it would be apparent that it was a suicide mission from the beginning.

And plus, I think it is far too optimistic to assume that Dante and his little group can face the source of evil, alone, and expect to win.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

Having them die at all would make it all seem like wasted effort. Even if they kill the big bad, who's to say that there won't be another big bad down the line?

 

[moseslmpg]

Well, this would be the ultimate source of all evil, so it would by definition be the last big bad ever, ever.

And not that it has anything to do with Vergil, but when everyone dies, this is like when they are all 50 or 60, and it would be the absolute last game chronologically.

It is better to have a definite ending than have it slowly die like the MMX series.

As for wasted effort, does death render all endeavors of life wasted efforts? I'd say not. just because they die doesn't mean what they did in life was meaningless.

 

[Meg]

Optimism, moses. DT and I are simply optimistic. :lol:

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

Optimism, moses. DT and I are simply optimistic. :lol:

It's better than being pessimistic or dark, ain't it? *fist bump*

 

[moseslmpg]

Well, DMC doesn't seem to be optimistic, and neither am I, alas. I find that most optimisms are unrealistic, desperate attempts at avoiding the gaze of the brute truth of reality. Which is not to say that I don't do the same thing myself.

That said, I don't think things are hopeless. In the end, after everyone died, the universe would be remade anew and everyone would live happily ever after as I said. But no one would be interested after the twins died, so I don't include that part.

 

[Meg]

^ I was merely joking. Although! Optimism is simply finding hope in a situation. And I'm tiredas crap, my head hurts, so on that note I'm going to post the most BA speech in game history to illustrate that point. *has fan moment* :wub:

"Sure to you the end may seem like salvation. All you care about is death's release! So take it and leave the rest of us alone. We don't think like that. When it looks like there's no hope left, we keep looking until we find some..." yada yada. (Please keep in mind I wasn't directing that at anyone.)

 

[moseslmpg]

I have absolutely no problem with optimism for others, as I believe it is a better choice than pessimism even if it is less true.

I have no problem with that speech either as long as the person giving it dies with everyone else. The human spirit or will may be indomitable, but the rest of it is all very fragile.

 

[Meg]

Oh forget it. If you can't tell when I'm just joking around then there's no sense in me saying anything else. :\

I like to lighten things up, as does DT. But if you insist on always being serious then forget it.

Anyway, this is all horribly off topic anyway. To get this back on topic: Dante should pull Vergil out of his hat. Problem solved.

 

[moseslmpg]

I don't think I'm being that serious...I just don't use emoticons that much. But really, I wouldn't object to such a sentiment in DMC. The pessimistic view is my own and isn't really necessary to the series.

But yeah this is off topic.

 

[A.$h!nati]

I want less Nero and more Vergil , I hope they don't bring Nero to DMC 5 and keep the story about Dante and Vergil [specially Vergil]

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

I want less Nero and more Vergil

Unfortunately that's kind of counterproductive. Now that Nero's there they have to answer the questions about him lest there be thousands or maybe millions of angry fans.

I, personally, would rather see more Nero and less Dante/Vergil. But I probably won't get my wish...