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How to bring Vergil back

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moseslmpg

Well-known Member
I am troubled by the pessimistic attitude exhibited by some people in this thread. Can you nay-sayers tell me if you always felt this way or if it was only after DMC4 came out? Because I suspect this is Kobayashi's doing.

I myself had several ideas of how to bring Vergil back as a meaningful character (to those people saying he has nothing else he can add, shame on you; you're probably thinking of Dante :p), which changed as time went on.

The only real problem with my ideas is that they assume the DMC universe is a little more fleshed out than it is. I'll try to convey the essence of the ideas alone, without too much recourse to context. But later. I'll try and find some of my old posts.
 

Marisa

Hope with Doubt
Well Nero eats The Sacred Peanut Butter of D :ninja:'s and Then Vergil is Free and says "Put down D peanut butter" and Nero punches Vergie-Kun and Vergie-Kun kills Nero and Nero's Spirts Kills Vergie :D
 

Darth Angelo

Tuck-yet-chi-say-denie trieve trick-dis-nie
moseslmpg;262472 said:
I am troubled by the pessimistic attitude exhibited by some people in this thread. Can you nay-sayers tell me if you always felt this way or if it was only after DMC4 came out? Because I suspect this is Kobayashi's doing.

Mine comes from my deep rooted stereotyping of DMC3 fans that is probably a little unfair.
In DMC1 Nelo Angelo was a cool character but he was not really a concious person who was self aware like in 3, as much as I adored Nelo he was like a robot in 1, there was next to nothing to him. I am pretty sure that before DMC3 there were much fewer people who were interested in seeing Vergil come back to life (why would they? We didn't know him at all.) even to people who became obsessed with him like me the idea of him having not exploded just because we didn't SEE it was absurd. We didn't need to see him explode, he was finished and I made my peace with it and moved on. And wasn't surprised to not see him in 2.

Then DMC3 came out and the reaction to Vergil was unbelievably massive. And rightly so he was arguably the most perfect villain the series...no GAMING has ever known he was awesome but the reaction to DMC3 and Vergil felt so big that it seemed like it was smothering everything else. I mean if you were going anywhere that had anything to do with DMC his name would instantly come up it just started to get really old.

(ill sum this up before it goes on too long)
To me the only reason people think Vergil is still alive is because they played 3 first, wanted more of him and the idea of letting go of him when they didn't really see him die doesn't even register. That his fate in DMC1 wasn't good enough and that he is a much more significant part of the series than he was actually supposed to be. And if these people keep shouting about it all the time eventually the makers will see it as something that everyone wants...But I don't he is dead in my eyes, i've moved on. Vergils return is the last thing I want to see at this point.
 

Devil Bane

God Slaying Blades
Pretty much this or we are afraid[that includes me] that Koba and palls us will troll us so hard we would wish Vergil never existed.So some like me are either 50/50 or nothing.
 

Vergil'sBitch

I am Nero's Mom & Obsessed fan girl
Premium
I'm dreading DMC5 since the release of DMC4 and its bloody novel.
So yes, Koba has ruined it.
I'm a huuge Vergil fan (as you all know), but i don't want Vergil to return to the series.
 

Vergil'sBitch

I am Nero's Mom & Obsessed fan girl
Premium
you got that right :lol:
No, seriously.
The whole Nero could be Vergil's son has ruined the series for me.
 

V

Oldschool DMC fan
moseslmpg;262472 said:
I am troubled by the pessimistic attitude exhibited by some people in this thread. Can you nay-sayers tell me if you always felt this way or if it was only after DMC4 came out? Because I suspect this is Kobayashi's doing.

I think it was Nero's doing. Him arriving on the scene just said to me that they'd rather shove a brand new ambiguous character in than return or explain any of Dante's family. That's been enough to squash any expectation of a realistic return for me. It's not that I wouldn't want to see Vergil come back - it's the fact I wouldn't want it done in the manner of Nero's debut, nor have them turn him into something ridiculous or too far from what I know (i.e.... Gilver).
 

moseslmpg

Well-known Member
Darth Angelo;262586 said:
Then DMC3 came out and the reaction to Vergil was unbelievably massive. And rightly so he was arguably the most perfect villain the series...no GAMING has ever known he was awesome but the reaction to DMC3 and Vergil felt so big that it seemed like it was smothering everything else. I mean if you were going anywhere that had anything to do with DMC his name would instantly come up it just started to get really old.

So, basically, you think DMC should only deal with Dante? I disagree with this. The only reason people are always clamoring for Vergil is because he is constantly ignored in the series. Not including him would be like taking the Joker out of Batman because the Joker is too awesome.

(ill sum this up before it goes on too long)
To me the only reason people think Vergil is still alive is because they played 3 first, wanted more of him and the idea of letting go of him when they didn't really see him die doesn't even register. That his fate in DMC1 wasn't good enough and that he is a much more significant part of the series than he was actually supposed to be. And if these people keep shouting about it all the time eventually the makers will see it as something that everyone wants...But I don't he is dead in my eyes, i've moved on. Vergils return is the last thing I want to see at this point.
That isn't the case at all. I played them all in order, and the reason I want Vergil back is that I see him as a foil for Dante that would spur on their mutual character development, and that I see Vergil as one of the last ways that the series can be expanded upon and deepened. Really, everything you are saying about Vergil can be turned back on Dante, he actually is stagnating as a character now without something to oppose or catalyze his growth. You have to remember, Sparda had twin sons, Dante is not DMC.

I don't think Vergil should come back if he is an exact copy of his DMC3 self, because there's no point. But there are ways to develop his character while keeping it essentially the same. So,we don't have to choose between DMC3 Vergil and Nelo.

I'm sorry to hear that Capcom and your perception of tha fans has hardened you to Vergil's return, but the fact remains that he has the most potential of any character in the series. Sure, maybe his return isn't realistic in the series, but that doesn't mean it should be discounted.

For instance, and easy place to start would be to have him awaken in Hell, probably wastelands, right after Mundus has been shot to Hell by Dante. Mundus is all broken and gross on the throne room floor, and an amnesiac, hallucinating Vergil stumbles across the wasteland and finds his way to the throne. He questions Mundus, etc, whatever. Eventually, he sets about trying to find his memories and way out of Hell, by exploring the different areas, meeting various demons that he interacted with as Nelo, and so forth. It ends when he kills Mundus once and for all, in a weakened state, using some new technique he has learned. And then he sets off to reclaim his amulet from Dante. That could be the basic story.
 

Devil Bane

God Slaying Blades
Vergil was already a different character at the end of DMC3.As was Dante.They both matured.Too bad Vergil never got to enjoy it though.You bastard,Mundus.

Seriously though,now that Cr4pcom has started targeting "gaijins" with nostalgia games and MonHun games and fujoshi/fangirls with BASARA and unfortunatel,DMC too,it's not too strange to hate them.Ever since 2004 they've been deepsh1t.Only Clover studio saved them and now they've become Platinum games.

The only guy who is really worth something in there as far as gaming goes[I don't count musicians and artists,it would be unfair] is Inafune.And he doesn't even get the right budget,team or even permission to make good games.

And seriously; at this point,seeing the BASARA 3 fiasco,I'm trembling at the thought of Vergil returning.Who knows what troll tactics will be used.Koba trolled used beyond imagination from the start of BASARA 3,who says he won't do the same with DMC 5?Oh,yeah...he also did that with DMC4.And it was never about Nero[the whole trolling bussiness I mean].

And believe me,most of love Vergil,you can see me and VB as his number 1 fans if anything,yet I really don't want a f*cked up Vergil made only to please the sight of the fujoshi for their YAOI fantasies as Koba wants.I want Vergil.The guy I saw at the end of DMC3.That's it.If Crapcom can't offer that,they better never offer Vergil at all.
 

Dante's Stalker

"Outrun this!"
Premium
Supporter 2014
I'm with you 100% DB!
If they're going to pull any yaoi smut like they did in DMC4 - well they DID! The first fight with Dante where Nero decides to scissor Dante? If you don't watch South Park, you won't get what I'm talking about, and if you do, then you should be backing me and DB up on this anyway! - then Vergil should rather stay dead. Actually, they should kill Dante off early on in DMC5 too, if they're going to go that route, because I don't think I'll be able to handle it if they turn Dante into something he's not. If they wanna please the sicko fangirls and sicko fanboys out there, they can keep Nero, just PLEASE be merciful and take Dante out of the equation in the first cutscene!
 

Devil Bane

God Slaying Blades
If they wanted to please the sicko fanboys they would include Gloria/Trish and Lady in the game as playables along with nude patches for women and a lesbian scene between all the girls,Kyrie include that becomes an orgy when Dante and Nero enter the scene...not that it would hurt me though...ahem!

What I meant is thanks Chloe and agree,better take Dante of the picture.Just have him stay in hell like he was "destined" to be in DMC2?That would be better.
 

The crazy demon

Metal Gear Vindicare.
You said it DB and i agree with you.

Koba is trying to bring morew fans to DMC and not just girls.

If the troll is trying to make a yaoi DMC some characters should stay dead
 

Devil Bane

God Slaying Blades
Thanks.And the bad thing is the he is playing us for fools quite easily along with him being a n "escape questions" artist,things proved on his interview during comic-con when he was asked about BASARA by western fans.

We have to shake him up somehow...maybe the next comic-con?Or his blog/twitter?
 

Darth Angelo

Tuck-yet-chi-say-denie trieve trick-dis-nie
moseslmpg;262666 said:
everything you are saying about Vergil can be turned back on Dante, he actually is stagnating as a character now without something to oppose or catalyze his growth. You have to remember, Sparda had twin sons, Dante is not DMC.
I agree especially with how pointless his part seemed in 4 was I think his role as the main character (or the half main character) shouldn't be a given. If a story doesn't have all that much to do with Dante leave him out and just stick him in the bloody palace.


moseslmpg;262666 said:
I don't think Vergil should come back if he is an exact copy of his DMC3 self, because there's no point. But there are ways to develop his character while keeping it essentially the same. So,we don't have to choose between DMC3 Vergil and Nelo.
I keep getting visions of a Liquid-Ocelot style awakening for Vergil inside Nero. With the arm and the sword and the ghost I could bury my head in the sand but that looks like the most obvious direction it is going in.
 

Devil Bane

God Slaying Blades
^Once again...Liquid Ocelot...ahem...watch carefully the cutscenes of MGS4 and you'll understand what Liquid Ocelot is and why it can't happen to Nero with Vergil.Not in a thousand years.Not even with the whole demonic powers on work etc.If Vergil returned that way,I can assure you...Koba's dead the moment he thought of it.And to quote Kenshiro :

*Manly shirt-ripping*

"He is...already dead!"

I just don't want to put spoilers.:p
 

Darth Angelo

Tuck-yet-chi-say-denie trieve trick-dis-nie
Devil Bane;262803 said:
^Once again...Liquid Ocelot...ahem...watch carefully the cutscenes of MGS4 and you'll understand what Liquid Ocelot is and why it can't happen to Nero with Vergil.Not in a thousand years.Not even with the whole demonic powers on work etc.If Vergil returned that way,I can assure you...Koba's dead the moment he thought of it.And to quote Kenshiro :

*Manly shirt-ripping*

"He is...already dead!"

I just don't want to put spoilers.:p

I just mean the general idea of bringing back a villain that is dead by stupid means. MGS4 can tart the explaination up with fancy nanomachine banter all they want but they brought back Liquid with his arm. And beens that DMC is a lot more flexible with realism they could just make up something about Vergil's demonic soul inhabiting Nero's arm for some Sparda related reason.
I would obviously love it if I was wrong but I don't think "give me more power" was a coincidence despite arguing against that thoery for the past couple of years. Thats just frustrated denial.
 

Devil Bane

God Slaying Blades
Oooooook...Could be.Though I seriously dount it.EVen if he used just some lines from Dante and Vergil,doesn't mean anything.Though the possibility exists...

Anyway :

Liquid was never brought back from the dead.Ocelot was faking the whole thing via nanomachines,years of self hypnosis and years of study around Liquid's character.The arm was just a "tool" to fool the rest.He had fooled everyone,even himself for his plan to work,but in the end,as he was ready to die from FOXDIE he regained conciousness and confessed to Snake some things and Snake worked the rest out.ANd then they fight the last battle.In a dramatic matter that mirrored their parents.For Snake Big Boss and for Liquid The Boss.And once again the Snakes won.This time though not bitterly.It wasn't a sweet victory either though...
 
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