How to bring Vergil back

[moseslmpg]

I said none of those "Vergil has nothig left to contribute" things. We don't know what he has left to contribute since he has only bee in one game. By all accounts Dante has nothing to contribute either, but yet he continues to appear in DMC.

But you did mention that his return would be unwarranted, which does seem kind of circular. Basically, saying he shouldn't return because he wouldn't need to return.

Is there something about his return that is bad in itself, or is it just the timing? Or people think he will act the same?

P.S.: Vergil would kick Nero's ass before Nero could even say "Daddy?"

 

[Vampi]

Obviously the Nero fanboys do not want Vergil to return since Vergil is the ultimate badass next to Dante, maybe even more so.

Saying that Vergil shouldn't return cause we know everything about him (which is just absurd) and that he shouldn't return cause ya know...he disappeared in a cloud of blue smoke in DMC 1 (he's not been officially confirmed to be dead. Even Mundus says "Vergil has been defeated", NOT killed. Big difference there).

Besides, even when Dante was younger he thought his brother died along with Eva in the attack. And then POOF! Vergil appears in his late teens in the manga.

I just can't believe people would accept a character like Nero, a person we know nothing about and that Capcom trying to stuff him down our throats, even though we have no connection to him and his quest for whateverness

But yet Vergil, a character with a mysterious past and more possibly a mysterious outcome, is totally shunned. Even though he's the older twin brother of the main character throughout the series until DMC 4.

Yea...people have their logic screwed up...

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

^^^ I'm only going to say one thing. Do you TRY to get a rise out of people and make them angry at you, just for fun? What's wrong with liking one character and disliking another? You don't like some of the characters, and we don't get ticked at you for it.

 

[King of Hell]

I don't think we're gonna get him back, especially if you read this quote, it was on DMC history "it was there that Dante met Nelo Angelo, the transformed soul of his departed brother Vergil"

^^ I sure hope it was a typo though. why do I have the feeling that Nero would take the whole series soon? I like Nero but I want more Dante, I want more Vergil.

 

[Vampi]

^^^ I'm only going to say one thing. Do you TRY to get a rise out of people and make them angry at you, just for fun? What's wrong with liking one character and disliking another? You don't like some of the characters, and we don't get ticked at you for it.

No i'm only gonna ask you one thing...why are you so damn sensitive? I haven't insulted you in anyway, but yet you still keep on painting me as a bad guy and targeting you. You really have to stop taking things so personally its ridiculous. If you can't handle a grown-up discussion just because it doesn't agree with your idea you really should find another DMC forum that's aimed at children. Might i suggest the SonsofSparda Forums...everything there is vanilla and sugarcoated just for your sensitivity.

I don't think we're gonna get him back, especially if you read this quote, it was on DMC history "it was there that Dante met Nelo Angelo, the transformed soul of his departed brother Vergil"

^^ I sure hope it was a typo though. why do I have the feeling that Nero would take the whole series soon? I like Nero but I want more Dante, I want more Vergil.

Like Moses said in another post, that prologue recap in DMC 4 about the other DMC's is just Kobayashi's own interpretation of it. And Nelo Angelo can't be Vergil's departed soul, cause when Nelo removes his helmet its Vergil's body. He's brainwashed, he's not sum damn zombie or anything.

And of course Koba wants to slowly phase out Dante. He practically removed Vergil altogether for his selfish needs to make Nero the mainstay of the series from now on. Its just that as long as people totally accept Nero as the main character from now on, Dante will totally disappear from the series. And when that happens that'll be the last straw and i'm never going to buy a DMC game again cause its not DMC anymore. Its Final Fantasy DMC.

 

[Darth Angelo]

Obviously the Nero fanboys do not want Vergil to return since Vergil is the ultimate badass next to Dante, maybe even more so.

Everything Vergil will ever and has ever cared about worth telling = Sparda's power

We have already seen him fail at beating Dante twice and faught him six times if he comes back in a sequel it's going to be the same story as 3 all over again. Even if he doesn't the whole sibling rivalry thing has run it's course now anyway. Dante is always going to stop Vergil in everything he ever tries to do I would rather not play the same plot over and over and over just because Vergil is badass. Just like I would not want DMC5 to not be another Nero damsel in distress love story.

Part of what makes me prefer Nero over Vergil is that we actually don't know where it's going yet, at least not for sure. It's keeping the series fresh and not regurgitating the same successful story time and time again.

 

[Vergil'sBitch]

i'm gonna say it, why is everyone so 'obsessed' about bringing Vergie back.

Departed means dead. Vergil is DEAD!
I see no point in bringing back a character whose story has run its course. (Yeah, of course I'm a Vergil fan, i just don't want to see his character ruined anymore than what it has been in the novel.)

Dreadnought knows I'm not Nero's biggest fan. But, Nero has been brought into the series, and no matter how much anyone b*tches or moans about it isn't gonna change that.

(Now wonder I've banned this topic on DSC.)

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

@Darth: I agree completely. Thanks for saying what I wasn't able to put into words.

@Vampi: It's not your opinion itself that bugs me, it's your "I'm right, you're wrong" attitude. You may not think that your opinion is absolute, but the way you type it out makes it seem so.

 

[King of Hell]

No i'm only gonna ask you one thing...why are you so damn sensitive? I haven't insulted you in anyway, but yet you still keep on painting me as a bad guy and targeting you. You really have to stop taking things so personally its ridiculous. If you can't handle a grown-up discussion just because it doesn't agree with your idea you really should find another DMC forum that's aimed at children. Might i suggest the SonsofSparda Forums...everything there is vanilla and sugarcoated just for your sensitivity.



Like Moses said in another post, that prologue recap in DMC 4 about the other DMC's is just Kobayashi's own interpretation of it. And Nelo Angelo can't be Vergil's departed soul, cause when Nelo removes his helmet its Vergil's body. He's brainwashed, he's not sum damn zombie or anything.

And of course Koba wants to slowly phase out Dante. He practically removed Vergil altogether for his selfish needs to make Nero the mainstay of the series from now on. Its just that as long as people totally accept Nero as the main character from now on, Dante will totally disappear from the series. And when that happens that'll be the last straw and i'm never going to buy a DMC game again cause its not DMC anymore. Its Final Fantasy DMC.

well, if that idiot interprets it that way, we probably won't see Vergil again. unless somebody at capcom actually listens to what fans want...but in all seriousness, if we'd see him in a cheesy way, I'd rather have him dead, unless its an epic comeback, leave him be.

 

[Vergil'sBitch]

Koba HATES Vergil... so as long as he is in charge Vergil will not come back.

Oh and Nelo is Vergil's Soul... Here's proof.

edit: wait for proof

 

[V]

Y'know - I don't have a problem with Vergil being in another game, a prequel, a 'return from the dead', whatever... but only if it's masterfully done and with decent reasons and explanations and no ruination of his character. Which at the moment expecting CAPCOM/whoever to do is a bit like trusting a shark to lick tuna paste off your arm.

 

[Vergil'sBitch]

Okay...Vergil's soul is in Nelo.

Vergil is Dead + Koba in charge = No return

 

[moseslmpg]

Everything Vergil will ever and has ever cared about worth telling = Sparda's power

We have already seen him fail at beating Dante twice and faught him six times if he comes back in a sequel it's going to be the same story as 3 all over again. Even if he doesn't the whole sibling rivalry thing has run it's course now anyway. Dante is always going to stop Vergil in everything he ever tries to do I would rather not play the same plot over and over and over just because Vergil is badass. Just like I would not want DMC5 to not be another Nero damsel in distress love story.

Part of what makes me prefer Nero over Vergil is that we actually don't know where it's going yet, at least not for sure. It's keeping the series fresh and not regurgitating the same successful story time and time again.

Your logic is pretty flawed. How can you justify Dante in 4 games then, when we know pretty much everything about him, but then saying that having Vergil in one game is enough to exhaust all the potential of his story. That is just dumb. The highlighted portion is excessively dumb.

Italics: Yeah, I guess if we got something right we wouldn't want to keep doing it right, huh? If it ain't broke, break it :wacko:

i'm gonna say it, why is everyone so 'obsessed' about bringing Vergie back.

A better question is why are peopl so obsessed with him not coming back? It seems like after DMC4 people have started hating Vergil just to be "cool" and contrarian.

Departed means dead. Vergil is DEAD!
I see no point in bringing back a character whose story has run its course. (Yeah, of course I'm a Vergil fan, i just don't want to see his character ruined anymore than what it has been in the novel.)

Again, logic is flawed. According to the DMC4 Recap, Vergil was dead before DMC1, in which case, death is really no big deal.

The part in parentheses is a valid concern, but an unreasonable one. Dante's character is being ruined, so why not bring Vergil back?

Now, if we can get back to the question. So far, I have seen only 2 sort of valid objections against Vergil coming back, and they are more circumstantial than anything. There is:
1. His return is unwarranted. (Not really valid, since this depends on what story they come up with. They can easily create a plot that necessitates his return, which seems to be the direction they were going with Nero).

2. Don't want his character ruined. (Not really valid, because it assumes the only way Vergil could come back was if his character was ruined.)

I'm not seeing anything that necessarily says he shouldn't come back. For instance, if he came back and his return was warranted, and there was more of his story left to tell, and his character wasn't ruined, and they didn't rehash the same old story, hypothetically, then why wouldn't people want him back? These are the answers I'm interested in.

Also, considering that Dante is the biggest offender when it comes to all these things, do you want him back?

VB: Nothing there precludes a return; people have come back from being way deader than that. In fact, it doesn't even say he's dead, and if his soul can inhabit an inert demonic body, then he is basically alive. Don't hide behind shoddily interpreted canon to justify your lack of imagination, it's disgusting. That goes for all of you.

 

[Vergil'sBitch]

TS but those are my opinions! If you don't like it, you know what to do....
Yes! by being Nero's father. That is how you ruin his character.

Yeah, Vergil was dead before dmc because he was killed at the end of DMC3 (which was a prequel to the afformentioned DMC). Mundus KILLED Vergil... what is it that you don't understand.

Since when is Dante's character being ruined? Dante's not the one with an apparant kid!

Hey if its in the game... ITS CANON!!!
You just don't like it because someone has come up with the goods which goes against what you and everyone else has said.

 

[Vampi]

Dante's character is obviously being ruined. DMC 4 Dante is just bumming around without a care in the world. Its so weird he's disconnected from everyone else. He's way too laid back. He has no motivation in life (and no not being Nero's mentor is not his motivation in life. He's still young ya know). Dante is pretty much fanservice from now on since he has nothing to do and nothing to really fight for besides him just hunting demons for money...if he ever even charges people since Lady takes all his money anyway.

Again, Mundus even says in DMC 1 that "Vergil has been defeated" he didn't say killed or say Nelo Angelo was killed. He explicitly says "Vergil is defeated" why would he mention a suppose dead person's name if Vergil's soul is in Nelo Angelo and that's his identity from now on.

Not everything in the game is canon. DMC 3 changed alot of things that DMC 1 brought to the table. In DMC 1 Dante thought his Brother died 20 yrs ago (just like Trish said). But DMC 3 changed all that since DMC 3 takes place no more then 10 yrs ago before the events of DMC 1. So no not every single thing in the game is canon. Just like why Vergil's amulet is silver in DMC 1 and gold in DMC 3.

Its not about not liking the "goods" that are given to us. Its about having common sense. You shouldn't take Kobayashi's interpretation of the history of DMC as gospel. Capcom always have their facts kinda screwed up about there games. That's why even in the US DMC site they spell Yamato Yamoto. Koba is stupid FACT! Just like that DMC 4 novel is stupid and isn't really 100% canon yet until DMC 5 comes out and sheds some more light on stuff.

 

[Darth Angelo]

Your logic is pretty flawed. How can you justify Dante in 4 games then, when we know pretty much everything about him, but then saying that having Vergil in one game is enough to exhaust all the potential of his story. That is just dumb. The highlighted portion is excessively dumb.

Italics: Yeah, I guess if we got something right we wouldn't want to keep doing it right, huh? If it ain't broke, break it :wacko:

Where exactly did I justify Dante in 4 games? I have not liked Dante since DMC1. He should have only come back in 3 for obvious reasons.
Why can't people accept DMC3 for what it was supposed to be? A prequel that hit a dead end before it even began it was never meant to open up any tangents.
This wouldn't be as much of an issue if the root of this had a bit more meat to it. But from the second DMC3 came out this was never about analyzing the overall plot or obvious turns it was always destined to take. It is just people who refuse to let go of Vergil after DMC3 and refuse to accept the possibility that we will never see him again. Because there is a good chance he is dead.

I am desperate to see Mundus again but I try not to go on about how he is the main villain of the series and Dante is destined for a rematch because he said he would be back etc those things shouldn't be taken as 100% certain, as much as I would hate them to not be. If enough people don't want him back then I guess we won't see him again. If somebody reboots the series and he isn't in it I would be sad but I am ready to be let down.

 

[Devil Bane]

Koba HATES Vergil... so as long as he is in charge Vergil will not come back.

Oh and Nelo is Vergil's Soul... Here's proof.

edit: wait for proof

It's actually the other way round...Koba loves Vergil,that's why he made him[yes it wasn't Kamiya] and when he got his chance to make DMC3 he mad ehim the way we know him.Blame Kamiya for not having Vergil as Koba wanted back in DMC1 and instead made him the brainless/brainwashed/whatever demon that is Nero Angelo.

Bottom Line : Koba loved Vergil as much as Dante.Though now he has turned into the world's greatest trolll and douche and his interpretion of "love" is also twisted.What he did to Dante in DMC4 is enough to make fear for a Vergil in DMC5 with this Koba.I seriously don't want his character slaughtered.

 

[Vampi]

Uh...what world are you living in Devil Bane? Kobayashi didn't create Vergil. Kamiya did. Kamiya is the Director and its his creation. Kobayashi wasn't even a big factor in a the game. He just contributed in sum small way to the game, had nothing to do with the characters. Shinji Mikami was the Producer and Hideki Kamiya the Director, so they both created the world of DMC.

I have no clue where you got the idea that Koba created Vergil LOL! That's insanity you're speaking.

Koba hates Vergil, period. Koba wasn't even involved in DMC 3 that's why DMC 3 is so damn good and DMC 4 sux.

Kamiya did more justice to HIS characters then Koba ever will. That's why DMC 1 Dante is the best Dante out there.

 

[Devil Bane]

^Not excactly.And Koba was never on DMC3?...Where are you living?Koba was in DMC 1 as an upcoming producer and he "created" Vergil,in that sense :

Kamiya wanted an antagonist,a sub-boss,a guy that could cause Dante a problem,but also guide him,like Vergil guided Dante through Hell in the Divine comedy.Kobayashi tossed the idea of Dante's twin and it was close to the idea of the Vergil we know.Kamiya liked the idea for a plot twist and here you have Nero Angelo and the creation of Vergil/Nero Angelo.When DMC3 came out,Koba fleshed out Vergil the way he wanted to.

At an interview about the DMC characters,Kamiya[after he left Capcom]was asked about his opinion on the subject of the DMC characters.He answered and among the things that he answered where his feelings for Vergil.He hates him,not because of any particular reason,but because he created Vergil/Nero Angelo[NOT DMC3 Vergil] in mind as a vilain that everyone could hate like he did.Probably,he did a good job[I bought DMC3 first,so I wouldn't know...] and he commented that,even now,with all the fleshing out Koba did,he still hates Vergil.

And true,Kamiya has done more justice to the DMC character than Koba,but you can't dismiss his work in DMC3.

 

[Vampi]

^Not excactly.And Koba was never on DMC3?...Where are you living?Koba was in DMC 1 as an upcoming producer and he "created" Vergil,in that sense :

Kamiya wanted an antagonist,a sub-boss,a guy that could cause Dante a problem,but also guide him,like Vergil guided Dante through Hell in the Divine comedy.Kobayashi tossed the idea of Dante's twin and it was close to the idea of the Vergil we know.Kamiya liked the idea for a plot twist and here you have Nero Angelo and the creation of Vergil/Nero Angelo.When DMC3 came out,Koba fleshed out Vergil the way he wanted to.

At an interview about the DMC characters,Kamiya[after he left Capcom]was asked about his opinion on the subject of the DMC characters.He answered and among the things that he answered where his feelings for Vergil.He hates him,not because of any particular reason,but because he created Vergil/Nero Angelo[NOT DMC3 Vergil] in mind as a vilain that everyone could hate like he did.Probably,he did a good job[I bought DMC3 first,so I wouldn't know...] and he commented that,even now,with all the fleshing out Koba did,he still hates Vergil.

And true,Kamiya has done more justice to the DMC character than Koba,but you can't dismiss his work in DMC3.

No...where are you getting this info that Koba created Vergil? Please link me to sum article or whatnot because what you're saying is absolutely false. He did not create Vergil. All the characters in the original DMC are from Kamiya's and Mikami's mind, nowhere is Koba even mentioned, only as a executive producer. And that's not speaking much since Mikami is the Producer, so he's much higher up then Koba was at the time.

Please send me a link cause what you're saying is ridiculous. At least i have hard evidence that Nelo Angelo is Kamiya's creation and he doesn't hate him. He actually wanted Nelo to be a playable character after you finish the game with Dante (now why would you do that to a character you "supposedly hate"). This was all in the original Game Informer DMC 1 issue. Stop spreading false information when you don't have evidence.