General DMC 5 Discussion

[Foxtrot94]

Probably you played another gam

I wish.

Unfortunandly i had to say that dmc 5 had none of this, I liked the visual of the level, remind me of dmc 2 design of the level, witch I like but the dmc 5 level are pretty linear

There's no way DMC5's levels are linear (not all of them of course). Especially in the tree missions, the layout branches out a lot with multiple paths to reach your main objective, and those in turn hide tangent paths that lead to secret areas with secret missions, blue orbs and all that jazz.
I think the prime example of this structure is that level with Dante where you need to go all the way down the tree and there are those timed gates that close up after a while, blocking their paths.

In comparison, DMC4 and DmC (especially 4) had exploration, yes, but "guided exploration", I wouldn't know how else to call it. That's what I meant by linear. Like you would need a specific item to proceed so you would explore to find it but in the end, there's only one path that you can follow, and on top of that the hidden areas were relatively easy to find because of that structure.
Maybe he only exception to that was the forest level with Dante where there are portals that lead to different parts of the stage depending on which one you enter.

 

[Vergil95]

I wish.



There's no way DMC5's levels are linear. Especially in the tree missions, the layout branches out a lot with multiple paths to reach your main objective, and those in turn hide tangent paths that lead to secret areas with secret missions, blue orbs and all that jazz.
I think the prime example of this structure is that level with Dante where you need to go all the way down the tree and there are those timed gates that close up after a while, blocking their paths.

In comparison, DMC4 and DmC (especially 4) had exploration, yes, but "guided exploration", I wouldn't know how else to call it. That's what I meant by linear. Like you would need a specific item to proceed so you would explore to find it but in the end, there's only one path that you can follow, and on top of that the hidden areas were relatively easy to find because of that structure.
Maybe he only exception to that was the forest level with Dante where there are portals that lead to different parts of the stage depending on which one you enter.

If you call going right instead of left non linear well XD in the tree level yes there are several path but those path all marged in the same location and different path last fort 10 second than reunite with the main path... Instead in dmc 4 you can explore the castle the forest the orde of the sword headquarters and you can go back to you rute... Instead dmc 5 is linear you can only go streinght, and going right or left doesn't count as non linear... The closing gate whit dante are simply gate that lead you to small room that last 10 second, you can compare dmc 5 to the reboot since reboot had similar structure in level but better created whit more interesting platform element, the only platform I saw here is jumping and using Nero grapple, and I don't remember how many time I fall because of the bad camera... Unfortunately the level design are pretty disappointing in term of exploration compared to old dmc... If you call dmc 4 linear for exploring area to find key to open other door and go in other area to explore, well than I don't know how you cannot call dmc 5 linear since you go straight especially in the second part of the game

 

[Foxtrot94]

several path but those path all marged in the same location

That is... exactly what non linear means. Having multiple paths to reach your objective. When you only have a single path available to you, that's linearity. When the paths are multiple and branch out, that's non linearity.

last 10 second

platform

What does duration and presence or lack of platforming section have to do with sheer level layout? Like, open world games are non linear by definition and most of them have little to no platforming whatsoever.

Instead in dmc 4 you can explore the castle the forest the orde of the sword

Yeah I've already talked about that. The exploration in question is simply going through the one route you have towards the item that will unlock the next single route to your main objective.

and you can go back to you rute...

Now you're confusing non linearity with backtracking.

going right or left doesn't count as non linear...

As I explained earlier, it very much does. I'd rebut by saying that what you're saying (having the choice of going back or forward) doesn't count as non linear. You can do that in a corridor. Are you going to say that a corridor is not linear?

 

[Vergil95]

That is... exactly what non linear means. Having multiple paths to reach your objective. When you only have a single path available to you, that's linearity. When the paths are multiple and branch out, that's non linearity.





What does duration and presence of lack or platforming section have to do with sheer level layout? Like, open world games are non linear by definition and most of them have little to no platforming whatsoever.



Yeah I've already talked about that. The exploration in question is simply going through the one route you have towards the item that will unlock the next single route to your main objective.



Now you're confusing non linearity with backtracking.



As I explained earlier, it very much does. I'd rebut by saying that what you're saying (having the choice of going back or forward) doesn't count as non linear. You can do that in a corridor. Are you going to say that a corridor is not linear?

Unfortunadly I cannot agree whit you, going straight is linear even if you change rute for 10 second, instead what you are calling backtracking and find key element and exploring to open the next area is non linear to me... Going to a corridor but giving you the possibility to return back and explore the section before it s more non linear than going trught Dmc 5 straight route... Dmc always had platforming part that s why I m talking about platforming, that were very good in dmc reboot and 4, that platform section also need to be solved in some way whit ability ecc instead in this game you simply jump and use grapple and fall to go straight in linear manner, this those make dmc 5 even more linear compared to the other dmc... And since the level in the tree that you call non linear are alla platforming, it s pretty important how the platforming section play since you do platforming to reach secret are and other area that you say make the game less linear... Also don't put ope world in discussion since you cannot compare an open world to dmc 5, actually dmc 4 was more opens world in a sens since you have a map to explore and you can go were you want, in fact thats what you do in open world explore area like you did in dmc 4 but in much grater scale, and you also do backtracking as you call it in open world... Dmc 5 dosnet even have a map I don't know how can you even thing is not linear compared to the other game in the series

 

[DarkSlayer54]

As a person who gave DMC4 a 3/10... I like DMC5. Enemy designs and level designs are great, and Dante instantly changes weapons.

I'm not sure if I'll be able to call it the best game yet though. Beat it once, and I'm already tired of V and Nero. Dante is the only enjoyable character now, which means I'll only be able to really enjoy 1/3rd of the game when I'm doing the harder playthroughs. Might be a huge issue, but I'm not too sure yet.

For it to be the best, I would need to reach 80-90 hours of playtime and still be having fun (my playtime in DmC before it fizzled out). Seems like it'll all be up to Dante's content to try and reach that playtime... Really cuts down the replayability of the game. Allowing Dante to be played on all missions would have gone a long way.

I like that they gave us Death Scissors... It was amazing to see one hit kills come back. I haven't figured out if the Blades or Nobody's have critical hits yet. Their descriptions seem to hint at weaknesses, but I just haven't been able to figure it out yet. I'm stretching here, but I was disappointed that you couldn't jump on Shadow's spike... You just pass right through it.

Overall, I wanted to see them go the full 9 yards with it... Really hoping DMC6 gets made, and that it's given an even bigger budget.

Edit: I also dislike how it doesn't tell you which levels contain fragments.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

Devil may cry 5 is my favourite of the series next to 1

And then 3 followed by 4 and 2

Gameplay wise though for me it's

5-4-3-1-2 as I love jc

 

[Vergil95]

As a person who gave DMC4 a 3/10... I like DMC5. Enemy designs and level designs are great, and Dante instantly changes weapons.

I'm not sure if I'll be able to call it the best game yet though. Beat it once, and I'm already tired of V and Nero. Dante is the only enjoyable character now, which means I'll only be able to really enjoy 1/3rd of the game when I'm doing the harder playthroughs. Might be a huge issue, but I'm not too sure yet.

For it to be the best, I would need to reach 80-90 hours of playtime and still be having fun (my playtime in DmC before it fizzled out). Seems like it'll all be up to Dante's content to try and reach that playtime... Really cuts down the replayability of the game. Allowing Dante to be played on all missions would have gone a long way.

I like that they gave us Death Scissors... It was amazing to see one hit kills come back. I haven't figured out if the Blades or Nobody's have critical hits yet. Their descriptions seem to hint at weaknesses, but I just haven't been able to figure it out yet. I'm stretching here, but I was disappointed that you couldn't jump on Shadow's spike... You just pass right through it.

Overall, I wanted to see them go the full 9 yards with it... Really hoping DMC6 gets made, and that it's given an even bigger budget.

Dante instantly changes weapon in dmc 3 and 4 too...
You can jump on shadow spike actually, press r1 than back and forward whit the stick than press triangle, shadow will do a spike were you can climb on with v just like you did with dante dmc 1... By the way I love all the character but yes dante it's probably the best in gameplay combat but I must say Tha v had really God gameplay if you understand how to play it and I like Nero too...

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

Nero has vastly improved aerial capabilities now , inertia and the shockwave breaker and punchline and tomboy breakers really give his air combat more depth

I also glad they improved Him on that front

But yes Dante by comparison to the other too is a god gameplay wise

 

[Vergil95]

Nero has vastly improved aerial capabilities now , inertia and the shockwave breaker and punchline and tomboy breakers really give his air combat more depth

I also glad they improved Him on that front

But yes Dante by comparison to the other too is a god gameplay wise

Yes, If you thing about it their gameplay fith with the story and their character.. Nero is young and still not expert as dante, it's still like the dmc 3 dante, younger and arrogant, and his gameplay reflect this, dante on the other hand is a legend, he killed mundus and many other major demon pretty easily, he is probably the most powerful character in the dmc universe alongside vergil and his gameplay reflect this, it s like you are playing whit a living god and legend.. . V is weak and is dying and in fact he must relay on his familiar to fight ad avoid being catch, you must stay on alert to not being attacked by enemy and do not let your demon be defeated because if that happened he will be completely exposed to enemy and easyli die...

 

[DarkSlayer54]

Dante instantly changes weapon in dmc 3 and 4 too...
You can jump on shadow spike actually, press r1 than back and forward whit the stick than press triangle, shadow will do a spike were you can climb on with v just like you did with dante dmc 1... By the way I love all the character but yes dante it's probably the best in gameplay combat but I must say Tha v had really God gameplay if you understand how to play it and I like Nero too...

The weapon switching in DMC4 wasn't instant. There was a delay before you could switch again. I don't know how long the delay was, but you can notice it if you have a macro that presses R2 as fast as it can.

I didn't know you could jump on the spike with V... I only tried with Dante. You jump up, Shadow does the spike and always misses you. If you try aiming for the spike, Dante will just fall right through it. If it's possible to do with Dante, it's gotta be pretty darn clunky. I sure won't be figuring it out, that's for sure.

 

[BoBo]

Posted this on the other thread but I guess this is the right place for such discussion so here goes,

Spoiler

Just finished watching the whole game on YT and I wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

1) I think this is the best way all the previous entries in the series could have been connected in a relatively cohesive, fresh and entertaining manner. I can see that the devs have tried really hard to please the fans (of 1 and 3 and newcomers alike) but as an old time fan of the series, they've made several mistakes imho - which brings me to point number 2

2) The art direction falls a bit flat imo. Gone are the baroque/european/christian aesthetics of 1 and 3 (and even 4 at certain points), mostly getting replaced with the "insides of a cursed tree" look, which is often grey and uninteresting. The saving grace here is the sheer quality of the graphics and epic texture and lighting, making the repetitive environments bearable.

3) The ending seems to be a bit meh for me. Or maybe I was expecting a more than a recycled Vergil fight. Mundus rearing his ugly head again would've been fun if u ask me. I think the whole scenario should've concluded with a common epic enemy to mow down, with the help of the Sparda brothers.

4) Dante gaining more power than he previously had was a welcome change. He was getting overly repetitive and boring. He was also given enough show time to appease the fans.

5) I guess this is not real criticism but I have to say that the story was rather predictable for me. This isn't because DMC5 has a bad story, but because I've been playing games for far too long not to anticipate plot twists and such.

6) I like the Devil Sword Dante =)

Also, I have to agree with this;

Spoiler

As for the latter, well... once again, they seem to have given Vergil more of a DmC feel in what he does and how he does it, a lot more than in DMC4SE. I said it then and I'll say it now, it doesn't fit him. It looks sloppy, clumsy, and feels weak. Some of his movements seem almost ripped out of DmC. Like really, he does the doppleganger **** just like in that game, come on. The pose where he sticks Yamato into the ground/kneels down stunned? The dive attack, the look and feel of Summoned Swords and Rapid Slash? All DmC looking. It's ugly and more than the sharp, precise swordsman he was portrayed as in DMC3, it makes him look like the awkward, clumsy and inexperienced improvised fighter that his DmC rendition was.
I want Capcom to stop trying to carry his DmC feel over to DMC, it looks off every time in the context of the original universe and it robs the character of a bit of his badassness.

 

[Foxtrot94]

Spoiler

Remember when V told Dante that Urizen is his reason for fighting? It just occurred to me that Urizen is a play on "your reason". They are pronounced similarly.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

There are quite a few cool little things like that in the game and Easter eggs

 

[Vergil95]

Spoiler

Remember when V told Dante that Urizen is his reason for fighting? It just occurred to me that Urizen is a play on "your reason". They are pronounced similarly.

Urizen name had nothing to do with the phrase your reason, urizen is a character in the complex mitology of William Blake and he is the embodiment of conventional reason and law... This connected him to v, and his a foreshadowing of their relation, also urizen is a fake name give by v because he like William Blake and want to hide to Nero, vergil true identity

 

[Foxtrot94]

Urizen name had nothing to do with the phrase your reason

Then it's the other way around. If Urizen isn't a play on "your reason", then the phrase was a play on the name.

I don't believe it's a coincidence.

 

[Vergil95]

Then it's the other way around. If Urizen isn't a play on "your reason", then the phrase was a play on the name.

I don't believe it's a coincidence.

Actually you were right it s not a coincidence you reason and urizen are connected in meaning, it's stated by William Blake... My mistake sorry

 

[DarkSlayer54]

I really don't like how the style rank degrades. Not a fan of that at all... I hope there will be mods that fix that.

There are more playstyles than balls to the wall, non stop barrage of attacks...

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

So a question for all who beat the game

Spoiler

where would you scale Dante and Nero post DMC v moreso dante, like could he one shot Mundus or is he still below sparda etc in your opinions? I myself believe Dante is way beyond sparda and Mundus now and Nero bested a battle damaged and weakened Vergil but should be in that realm too

 

[Innsmouth]

So a question for all who beat the game

Spoiler

where would you scale Dante and Nero post DMC v moreso dante, like could he one shot Mundus or is he still below sparda etc in your opinions? I myself believe Dante is way beyond sparda and Mundus now and Nero bested a battle damaged and weakened Vergil but should be in that realm too

Spoiler

I think they both on sparda's level now.

 

[Vergil95]

So a question for all who beat the game

Spoiler

where would you scale Dante and Nero post DMC v moreso dante, like could he one shot Mundus or is he still below sparda etc in your opinions? I myself believe Dante is way beyond sparda and Mundus now and Nero bested a battle damaged and weakened Vergil but should be in that realm too

It was stated that after dmc 1, dante surpassed his father in swodmanship and gun master, infact he esely defeated argosax a powerful demon that sparda decided to imprison instead of simply defeating because maybe he wa to powerful even for him to defeat. .. in the anime he overpower both sparda apprentice baul and Modeus in subsequent battle without even going in devil trigger state dispate the both of them using their respective devil trigger, he also defeated Abigail power used by sid and Abigail was said to be in paire with mundus himself... He toyed with the savior without breaking a sweat in dmc 4 and give Nero the change to save kirye... In dmc 5 he easy kill every enemy on his way and after unlocking Is true power he easily defeated urizen even after he eat the fruit from the qliphot, and in the end he was able to match vergil at full power after he returned with the combination of both urizen new power and v knowledge of humanity side importance... Despite fighting with vergil in mission 19 and receiving a powerful hit by Nero in mission 20, dante continue to fight vergil for week in the underworld and sometimes their fight was interrupted by other demon and they fight them too without ever taking a break... Also in the gallery of dmc 5 is stated that sin devil trigger is more powerful than sparda himself.... The fact that dante was more powerful than sparda was also stated in dmc 4 gallery and Was also stated in dmc 1 by phantom and griffon... Also in dmc 5 he never used sparda devil trigger dispete having the sword of sparda because dante devil trigger right now is more powerful than that of sparda ... So yes right know both dante and vergil are more powerful than sparda, but who knows, by the time of dmc 5 sparda is belived by most population to be a legend that never existed and maybe his power were exagereted even more or downgraded and completely forgotten... I think nero is more powerful than dante was at the end of dmc 3 but not as strong as dmc 1 dante ending, he was able to beat Dante and vergil at the end of dmc 5 because the both of them were weakened by their previous battle, he would probably have lost to vergil if he would have confronted him at his peak...