General DMC 5 Discussion

[Foxtrot94]

Plus the problem with DMC4 wasn't the Style System. The problem with DMC4 was the fact it was rushed and wasn't finished. The only thing stopping Capcom from giving Dante a lot of weapons isn't the Style System but Capcom themselves.

This. The amount of weapons they could give Dante has nothing to do with whether he's gonna have Styles or not. And for the love of God, let's not regress to the DMC1 weapon switching through menus rather than on the fly. It just slows combat down, it's clunky and inefficient, and I'd rather have them go back to DMC3's loadout formula through Divinity Statues or before a mission. Having to go to the pause menu every time I want a different weapon... No. Just no.

I honestly don't know where all those claims about complexity coming from

I actually do. From my experience, mostly they come from people who act like they can't just pick one Style to stick to like in DMC3 and roll with it. As you said, the only difference with DMC3 is that you can switch on the fly. The game is perfectly playable if you play it like DMC3, using just one Style the whole way through. Heck, when I first played 4, I was a hopeless inexperienced noob, only having played DMC3 beforehand (and having my ass kicked by it btw), a much more difficult game, and yet I managed to beat it in multiple difficulties with just Trickster. Which, incidentally, is not only hella fun to use but also very good to keep yourself alive. And there's plenty of combos you can do with it without the need to switch to Swordmaster. And even if you really are tunnel visioning yourself into thinking Swordmaster is absolutely necessary to perform a combo... that is just a button away. Oh my, so complicated. It's not like I can just stick to SM for the whole duration of the fight. Hell, you can even ignore Trickster altogether to approach an enemy, since there are moves independent from Styles that can easily close the gap anyway, eliminating whatever need you can possibly feel to switch between Trickster to SM in order to start the fight.

I feel like the people who complain about how complex the Style system is are people who are convinced that having to master the switching between said Styles is REQUIRED to beat the game, and/or have any fun with it, which is not the case at all. The game tells you the options are there but it doesn't force you to use the feature if you don't want to, or are not good enough to.
The reason why DMC4 is so long lasting within the community, pros AND casual fans alike (yeah, that's right, who would have thunk), unlike any other game in the franchise, DMC3 included, is because it offers goods for everyone. Below average/average people like me can still have tons of fun with Dante sticking to just one Style and playing it like DMC3, and insane players can have just as much fun exploring the deeper avenues of its combat system. There's plenty of room for you to improve if you belong in the first category of players... If you want to, you'll find a whole world of tech and combos just waiting for you. If you don't want to, cause you feel like it's too much for you, it's still fine, the nature of DMC's single move-chaining system makes it so there are still potentially infinite combos you can pull off even if you just use one Style, even by just, say, performing a dash or teleport (using Trickster as an example) at a different time during the string.

If DMC5 manages to recapture this flexibility in allowing different playstyles and approaches to combat, BUT also provides the characters (well, Dante in this case since we're talking about him) with more weapons to do so... I can only imagine what a beastly action game it can become.

 

[Innsmouth]

@Stylish Nero
The style and combo vid community.

to be fair I didn't care for it much. I prefer playing and learning everything on my own

@Stylish Nero
This is true. I agree that the Angel/Demon system is not exactly that great, specially because it gave birth to color coded enemies, but the way it gave you access to all the moves in an immediate fashion, that's what I want out of it. For example, in DmC, if you want, lets say, to close the distance between you and a tall or currently aerial opponent; Angel dash → Do combo.

I'm not sure, because you have to choose between angel lift, demon pull + switch between three weapons on the same time + two different dodges. I think it's just overtkill, unlike DMC4 where all styles mapped to one button and you only need, that if you want to, switch them on the fly. That seems much more intuitive to me than, wrangle couple of weapons, dodges and pulls at the same time. So I wouldn't want them going back to it. I actually think DMC4 was much more intuitive to play, at least to me .

 

[berto]

Having to go to the pause menu every time I want a different weapon... No. Just no.

That's more than likely not going to be the situation. You wouldn't have to go into the menu to switch from one weapon to another, just to assign it to a slot or a button on the D-pad, or a trigger. I doubt they would ever remove the ability to switch weapons during play. That's something you've been able to do since DMC1.

you have to choose between angel lift, demon pull + switch between three weapons on the same time + two different dodges.

I'll give you that having 2 different dodges is unnecessary but having the option to have your enemies come to you or you go to them and having 3 weapons at the ready isn't something I'd describe as 'having to choose from' but rather having 'having the choice of.' They're not requirements, they are options.

 

[Innsmouth]

I'll give you that having 2 different dodges is unnecessary but having the option to have your enemies come to you or you go to them and having 3 weapons at the ready isn't something I'd describe as 'having to choose from' but rather having 'having the choice of.' They're not requirements, they are options.

But like @Foxtrot94 said, same could be said about styles. You mustn't use all of them. Also whole pull / lift was very messy imo and like I said it only worked because all enemies used highly telegraphed moves. Also having three weapons ready + having to switch them + using specfiic moves with specific attacks, all of that was at least for me highly unintuitive.

 

[absolitude]

i don't think they were talking bout the control scheme when they said they'd stick to original DMCs combat, i'm sure they'll change it to a more streamlined one but not as streamlined as DmC, so i feel it's not right to argue about it

as for what they meant with it, i can't describe it myself, it's just that by seeing the gameplay of 4 and DmC you can see the differences, and 4 is ofc the more superior one, there's something something which you don't need to know about the control scheme when telling which one is better.

 

[Shadow-death]

What is the point of arguing about the mechanics of combat, when in three weeks there will be a demo?

 

[berto]

What is the point of arguing about the mechanics of combat, when in three weeks there will be a demo?

To discuss and communicate our ideas and thoughts. Just because the demo is going to be showcased soon doesn't mean we stop to gather information before we form opinions with what is available.

 

[V's patron]

Fingers crossed for a Vitale appearance.

 

[Foxtrot94]

I don't think they'll show more than Nero, but we'll see.

 

[berto]

From what I read the implication is that this presentation is going to be Nero centric. There is no guarantee that there'll be more than that. Basically, there is no guarantee at a new trailer, new announcements, or even other media releases, like Dante CG renders. I'm sure they'll have new info and things to discuss but the rest is not a given.

 

[Ronin]

PLS hope we'll have more than just Nero. We need to see Dante at Gamescom too!!!!

 

[berto]

PLS hope we'll have more than just Nero. We need to see Dante at Gamescom too!!!!

Itsuno has mentioned before that he prefers Nero because he made him and he doesn't know what to do with Dante anymore. It's a big reason the last 3 games have been a prequel, a reboot and the other focused on a new protagonist.

 

[Lain]

I'd be fine with them just showing off Nero for the time being as I'm invested in where his character arc is going unlike Dante's.

I do hope we might get a clearer image of Vitale though, it doesn't even have to be in a trailer, just some character art would do nicely.

 

[lorddemolatron]

i would like to see someday DMC 5 demo for PC to look how could game behave on mine PC before buying but well im sure this on 100 % chance will not happen

 

[berto]

Well, PC is far more prominent now so I'm sure when there is a console demo there'll be a PC one.

Anyway, there are only 4 days till the convention, so not long to wait. In the meantime I'm calling it that the demo will showcase most of the areas we saw in the trailer because, well, that's how it's worked out in the last game. the DMC4 demo consisted of all the areas in the first 2 trailers, except for the mission 1 tutorial. We might also get a peek from here to then as they tend to release trailers and info before hand. Well, at least I'm hoping so.

 

[Innsmouth]

Nice, it has dedicated lock-on. This already earns bonus points in my book.

 

[Lain]

No rev or DT. The DT, I figured as much, but no revving? 'Sup with that?

While I suppose that this not being the final product means it could still be added in later (especially since they don't mention the shoulder buttons outside of Lock On being R1), I would be very disappointed if they took out the Rev mechanic, especially since Nero still seems to posses the same sword.

 

[berto]

While I suppose that this not being the final product means it could still be added in later (especially since they don't mention the shoulder buttons outside of Lock On being R1), I would be very disappointed if they took out the Rev mechanic, especially since Nero still seems to posses the same sword.

That's very likely. I remember, vaguely, that when I played the demo of DmC at Comic Con I'm pretty sure they still had the air high time mechanic, pressing O in the air for the first time give you high time and not helm breaker, which they removed when they released it to the public.

When it comes to things of this nature I'm assuming they're keeping things like the DT confidential till they are allowed to by their schedule. When the schedule allows they'll show us more of the game.

 

[Erian1Mortal]

Considering that we've already seen rev moves and Nero Revving Red Queen in the Trailer, I'd say it's in, still weird though that it's not mentioned as a seperate button.

 

[Ronin]

Please Dante at Gamescom!!!! And teaser for 3rd character V!